help needed for amplifier

[jericho]

I can't decide which amplifier for my new 800D's
I heard an Mcintosh MX-135 with two mono MC 501 blocks and a C1 Paraound with two JC-1 blocks.They sounded both great but I don't know what to do.I intend to install a complete home theater.The new HTM-1D is comming in the month of june so I just have to buy another amplifier to add to the mac or the C1.
Is it true McIntosh can't be upgraded on software by yourself, compared to Parasound?
What's your idea guys?

[Indytown]

Jericho, when you say they both sounded good, what do you mean.

Im also contemplating the 800D or 802D purchase. I listen to the 800/802 on a $36,000 Boulder amp and them swiched out to the Classe 400 mono's; to be truthful didn't like the sound; the Boulder's soundstage was in-between, around, above the speakers and gave the 800 a very full sound; one could play the 800's lound and was not in your face. The Classe hooked up to the 800's, the soundstaage came noticably closer to me, I was sitting 11 ft back; my impression was if i wanted to play louder the Classe would be fatiguing.

On the other hand 802's hooked up the Boulder was not as full sounded as the 800's. There was space between the sounds and instruments; was not full and solid sounding.

Again, hooked up the Classe to the 802's; same thing soundstage was in your face and thinner sounding.

What did you notice between the JC1 and McIntosh amps?

I think your on the right combo's here.

1) do you like the blue lights with dials of the Mac. vs. the traditional industrial design of the JC1

2) What where the differences in sound, staging, bottom end slam and clarity of drums, top end air of the midrange and tweeter switching out each of the amps.

3) Dollars. If both are equal then??

4) Why are you going with 803D's instead of the 802D you selected before; Are you realizing that sourrounds just don't put out the full range audio spectrum as the fronts and center? Saving dollars?

5) have you auditioned any Levinson Amps?

4) Why did't you go with the 802's?

[jericho]

Never tried Levinson, going for the 803D instead of 802D to save some money because they are serving as surround.
Taking note of your answer, Classé isn't that!!!I think Parasound will be the best option because their C1 has a lot of more possibilities than the MX-135 when it comes up to surround.If I'm honnest I like more the looks of the Mac;

[TimL]

I have listened to the 800D's including the HTM-1D with Krell FPB 750 mcx amps and it is incredible. Its very expensive option but WOW!! What a sound stage and that center is very very good with that much clean power. This was in a very nice room that was aprox 25x30x10. The sound stage across the front was almost one --very enveloping in the details.

[JCL]

A Krell / ML combination is the one I mostly see on the internet. That doesn't say you should have to buy that, just that you should concider them to be a serieus contender.

[muzick]

I went down to local HiFi store last Saturday to have a good listen to the 802D's. The 800 series has only just arrived here in Australia.

The store's premier amplifcation range is Macintosh. I dedided to take my own amplifier down to hook up to the speakers for two reasons:

1. To see if my Bel Canto Evo2i integrated had enough power to drive the 802D's.

2. Because I have never really heard the (old) 802's sound good with the flagship Macintosh amplification they have there.

Cut to the chase... my amp wired up and all I can say is Wow! What a sound!! All the staff came over to have a listen - they could not believe what they were hearing - the sounds made with my amp driving those
speakers was simply wonderful. That edginess was gone, and one was encouraged to reach for the volume control ... to turn it up a little more!

The difference between my amp and the Macintosh was not subtle. The staff were quite shocked at the difference, and I have to admit, I too could not get over how much better the sound was emminating from those speakers with the Bel Canto doing the driving.

One of the staff members said that if the owner was here he would be in tears! Another remarked that he didn't know that the B&Ws were capable of producing such a remarkable sound. High praise indeed. Says a lot about the Bel Canto amp of course, but says a lot also about really having the best equipment in front of those speakers.

I have made my mind up on the 802D's - I'm having them! My wife was also very impressed and didn't want to even listen to the 803D's after that listening session.

Enough power from my integrated? Man, the place was rockin! More than enough for my stereo listening - and enough power to fill the shop. Enough for home theatre? Dunno about that one perhaps, but I have no
qualms about using my amp now with the 802D's.

Paul

[fatcat]

Amazing... I have heard the exact opposite opinion as well.

It once again illustrates the personal nature of these choices. One must audition the amps/speaker combo ideally in one's living room to really be sure.

[jericho]

Here in Belgium it's not evident to go to a bettter store and ask for Krell or McIntosh or Classé just to do a test at your home to see which amplifier is sounding best with the speakers you have.First of all to find a store where they have Mac, Classé and Krell for example, just forget it!!!Than I even didn't speak over the types.If they have for example Krell, you'll never find a FTB 700cx to test not even the 400 cx

[fatcat]

I don't know what to tell you on that, Jericho. If you travel on business, perhaps you can swing by a showroom that features the amps. It's a shame if you cannot audition everything yourself, as these are such pricey items, but I don't think you can go wrong with the top quality end of McIntosh, Classe, Levison or similar level amp products. It becomes a matter of taste, and each has its fans. But detail and overall quality are fairly similar.

[JCL]

but what is your taste? You must have heard all the brands to make a composition of how they sound, so you still nead that dealer. Here in Holland it's the same problem but when you have this kind of mony to spend, you can affort to drive to Germany and hear them there.

[caleb]

If the dealer is worth his salt, he will let you try them at home win your own setup.

It's the only way to hear them as your room acoustics will always be different than the shop and this can have a significant effect on the sound.

It's your money - spend it wisely.

[jahlion]

My local dealer carries both Krell and McIntosh (along with B&W) but I am not interested in these at all. I am all about the new digital amps like the Bel Canto mentioned earlier. I am really looking forward to the new Samsung AV-R3000 receiver using the new ICEpower 250 watt digital amps. This is probably one of the few amps I would rather have then the Bel Canto series since I wouldn't need a pre-amp. I don't like the idea of having 6 analog cables, even if they are balanced XLR's. The receiver has multi-channel audio input over FireWire and DVI/HDMI switching.

http://www.medicom.bang-olufsen.com/sw2331.asp

[johan]

Jahlion,

Our friend Jericho is looking for an amp for his 800D's and you say Samsung!!? What's next?, you gonna tell him to feed it with MP3's from his Samsung mobile?

[georgev]

What amps do the dealer you bought the B&W's from, carry?
Will he not be amenable to your auditioning them in your setup? He certainly should.
One amp that IMHO you can buy without auditioning is the Mark Levinson.
Make sure it is one of the more powerful ones e.g the 336 or better still the 33h(pair).
You cannot go wrong with them(IMHO).
George

[jericho]

My dealer has Classé, altough I would like to hear on my 800 D the McIntosh MC-501, the Krell and the Parasound.
It's strange that few people talk about Parasound in this B&W forum to feed the Nautilus.I like Classé but there are a few things stopping me to buy it.I heard with my local dealer the new 802 D on a Classe processor SSC-600 and a CA-2200 amplifier.The sound was perfect my opinion.They used also the Classé CD player.
One thing I don't like is that treble and bass, you're not finding them back on the processor nor on any other Classé pre amplifier.Compared with Krell, Mcintosh, Parasound they have it.
I don't have the intention to take a pre amplifier from Krell for example and using Classé amplifiers.When I go for one of them, I intend to stay in the same line.End of may, beginning june I'm getting my new HTM-1D so I need a processor as amplifier, not a usual Pre Stereo.
Already thanks to everybody on the forum for their reaction and sorry for my bad English but I'm from Belgium and we only speak Dutch and French

[georgev]

Haven't any experience with Parasound. I believe the JC 1's are good.
Krell a bit harsh and passable mids and highs. Excellent lower frequencies.
Try the Classe CAM 400. It is not terribly different from the Omega series and does not cost quite as much. Your dealer will be able(should be able) to let you audition one at home.
George.

[Romanesq]

Amp: class and power

I have an awesome McCormack DNA-2 Rev. A platinum that kills in all categories with 803 Nautilus.

It's 300 wpc of refined power would match any of the new 800s quite well.
It's on audiogon now.

Finest amp I've ever heard.

[johan]

Jericho,

I have heard 800D's with Classe Delta CA-M400 and that really sounds great, the best I've ever heard. And then you could add a CA-3200 for your HTM1D and surrounds, that would be a perfect match both sonically and visually. And dont let the lack of tone controls stop you, with a system like that you wont miss them.

Good luck!
Pictures please..

[fatcat]

Samsung

Interesting new product from Samsung mentioned above, due out next month I believe. HDMI switching, powerful digital amps and tons of features. At the least, it will inspire the competition.

However, I would steer clear of this for a while. First, the HDMI and DVI formats still need some time before the details are shaken out. It is not as simple as "does it have DVI?" , as we have already seen many versions of this standard. And digital amp technology is nascient as well. Further, not to be unfair to Samsung, but I've been on the bleeding edge of technology before, and generally speaking the first product from a company in a new territory such as this is likely to have problems. The devil is in the details, and you likely won't be able to test everything thoroughly in a store.

Lastly, audio quality is an odd thing, often closer to the lowest common denominator in a product rather than the coolest feature. In other words, it's a difficult balancing act of technologies in the end, requiring very careful and experienced design, which is why people pay the big dollars for Classe, Krell, McIntosh, Levison, etc.

[jahlion]

The Samsung I mentioned earlier is the only "receiver" I would ever buy, simply because it eliminates the need for separate components connected by "analog" cables. No matter how good each component is by itself, the fact that each component is connected by analog cables and has to go through an A/D and D/A conversion each time, results in signal loss. The ICEpower modules are the best of digital amps on the market. You've heard of TacT, Halcro and Bel Canto? Great digital amps, but these either have only analog inputs or are stereo only. Hopefully this flagship product from Samsung will get some competition from some "less embarassing" name brands!