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After 3 weeks of usage my N804 are starting to open up. Previously I had Polk Audio RT20p with built in sub (2 - 8" / speaker). I was really missing the lower end with my N804 initially but have almost decided against the sub while listening last night. The bottom end is beginning to open up, although not boomy. I have yet to biwire too. I have 4 conductor 12 ga speaker wire (O2 free copper), just not sure how to 'run' the wire yet (in-wall {huge hassle} or along baseboard (problem with fireplace between system & speakers - suggestions always welcome). I am begining to feel that a $1500 sub is not warranted. BTW, this is a 2 ch setup used 100% for music.
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Really depends on what kind of music you listen too....I listen to all sorts from AC/DC to Allison Krauss.
Music that is bass heavy, then I feel the 804 and even 802s can benefit with the use of a sub. -
You should ask your dealer if he will let you take a REL Strata 5 (or Storm 5) home and have a good listen for yourself - if it doesnt sound £700/£1000 better don't buy it!
"...if it's too loud, you're too old!"Comment
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I can say with some authority that my 804s coupled with a REL Storm III bests the 803s by themselves, and that's about the only measuring stick available. My B&W dealer highly recommded the REL Storm III because that model is a sealed enclosure that closely matches the 804s. I listened to a setup of 804s with the Storm III vs. just the 803s. Rotel gear. There was a dramatic difference. The REL deepened the music in so many ways. Long story short: I didn't buy the REL from my regular dealer. However, when another B&W dealer recommended the Storm with the 804s, a dealer that didn't even sell REL, I decided to buy it used and did. Very glad I did.Comment
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I spoke with the US distributor for REL a while back when I was is the market for a sub. Their recommendation is the Strata with the N805's and the Storm with the N804's. Or, if you're willing to dig a little deeper into your pockets, the Stadium is an even better choice.Comment
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Just a point of clarification, the Storm III is a ported sub. The new Storm 5 is sealed sub.My B&W dealer highly recommend the REL Storm III because that model is a sealed enclosure that closely matches the 804s.
In the REL ST lineup...
the Stampede, Strata III, Strata 5, and Storm 5 are all sealed subs.
the Storm III is a ported Linkwitz-Riley reflex-loaded cabinet.
the Stadium III, Studio III and Stentor III are all ported Acoustic Resistive Matrix (ARM) loaded subs.Comment
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What would match up with an N802?Comment
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Ah, right you are. I'm mixing up my Velo HGS with the REL. The HGS is sealed, the Storm III is ported.a point of clarification, the Storm III is a ported sub.Comment
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You could do a Stadium with the N802 but the Stentor and Studio would be more appropriate. Only problem is, in the price range of the Stentor and Studio, there may be better choices. If I recall correctly the Stentor is $5000 and the Studio is something like $9,000.What would match up with an N802?
If I was going to spend that kind of money on a sub I'd probably want something more like the Velodyne 1812.Comment
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what's the price of a stadium?Comment
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Junior, I know you have N802's. Are you feeling there is something lacking?
On my setup, I cannot use a sub when I'm playing via anolog direct. I am forced to use "audio format decoding" which will send it through the processors on my surround pre/pro.
Regarding a sub. Regardless of what sub anyone intends to purchase, placement is the BIG issue. If you don't have a good location for a great sub it's won't sound great. Make every effort to stay away for the side and rear walls. I purchased floor to ceiling bass traps which helped with HT, not so much with 2 channel.Comment
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MSRP on the Stadium III was $3,000. Problem may be finding one. I'm not sure what happened behind the scenes, but REL no longer offers the Strata, Storm or Stadium in the US. The Stentor and Studio are still available.what's the price of a stadium?
The Strata, Storm and Studio have been replaced, IN THE US ONLY, with a new line called "Britannia". I haven't had a chance to audition the new Britannia subs yet, but forum member JLee has, and found them to be inferior to the models they replaced. (The new Britannias look eerily similar to a line REL had a few years back called the Tsunami. The Tsunami's were a big flop.) REL must be very proud of this new line of subs because they don’t even mention them on their website. You have to go to the US distributor's website to see them (www.sumikoaudio.net).Last edited by greggz; 10 April 2005, 22:39 Sunday.Comment
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Hey jeff...with certain music the N802s are still missing the low end ooomp! That a good sub can deliver. With most music they are adequate. But with rock...they are still a little lean.Comment
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For N805 ($2000), I would go with Strata III ($1500) OR Storm III ($2000) depending on the room. You may find the Storm III's tonal character actually matches the N805 better. The Strata III is quicker and slightly more musical though.
For N804 ($3500), I would go with Strata III ($1500), or 2 Strata III ($3000).. I tried the Storm III and it's tonally different than the Strata III and did not match as well with the N804.
With N803 ($5000), either Storm III ($2000), two of them ($4000) or Stadium III ($3000).
For N802 ($8000), definitely Stadium III ($3000) or two of them ($6000), or 1 Stentor ($5000).
For N801 ($11000), Stentor III ($5000), two of them ($10,000) or Studio III ($9000).
For N800 ($16,000), Studio III ($9000)
For S800 ($20,000), then I guess it's ok to splurge and get 2 Studios
($18000).
The general rule of thumb is you do not want your REL sub to cost more than the speaker it "supports"... if it does, it's better to get a better "main speaker" to support.
Also, for the best even distribution (lack of hot spots), I would go with 1 sub for EACH speaker, in the corner directly behind it.
You will find the Strata III to be very quick and musical. The Storm III, although it plays a BIT deeper, is a bit slower and tends to make some "woofing" noises at times. I personally didn't like it matched with my 804's and HTM1. The Stadium III is as quick as the Strata III and is very musical with a lot less note hangover. It is basically like a better Strata III (deeper, more output, but with no loss of musicality and quickness). The Stentor III is similar to the Storm III tonally, but because of the bigger amp, has better control over the driver and sounds very musical and relatively quick. I've tested the Stentor III and Stadium III back to back and the main difference is that the lower bass is more defined and musical with the Stentor. You also get a lot less note hangover (bass notes start and stop when they should, and don't "linger"... those lingering notes are produced by the vibrating cabinet or resonating driver that hasn't yet "stopped"). With the Studio III, it's got a lot more power to control the drivers so you get a very refined sound with incredible output potential. Very hard to beat!
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. I've been busy. I probably won't be able to check this thread for a while either, so if you have any more questions, I may not be able to answer them right away.Comment
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Oh, and as for the original question of does a N804 really need a sub? My short answer is YES.... if you want to get the most ouf of them. But not just ANY sub, I would have to say after auditioning many subs, REL is the only one I would get. For music, it connects to the AMP via a "high level connection" (this means it sees the exact same signal as the speaker. Normally, a sub will have a low level connection which means the signal after it has gone through it's own amp, will be DIFFERENT than the one that FIRST goes through your main amp and then to both your speakers and sub). This is very important. Not even my REL sub sounds very good when playing music and connected by only the low level connection.
Not only will the sub provide all the deepest bass, it will help your midrange and highs as well! In fact, the improvement in those 2 areas is worth the price of the sub alone! It completely transforms your speaker and listening experience. A N804 ($3500) with $1500 Strata III will outperform a N803 in every or almost every way.
Another important lesson I learned... when u get a REL and connect it to the high level connection, your AMP becomes even more important. It MUST be able to provide flat performance to about 10Hz before it starts to roll off, otherwise it "filters" out a lot of low bass that your REL will never see! This is one of the main reasons I switched from Rotel to Classe. The Rotel, although the best bang for the buck ANYWHERE, starts to roll off at about 20Hz. There is so much information that goes missing both in music and in movies when using the Rotel 1095 or 1080 amps I had.Comment
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On paper, i'm not too impressed with the REL line up. 10" drivers?
I would like to hear the RELs up against B&W, Velodynes, M&K, and others I'm sure are out there. But I don't think that can happen at the same dealer.Comment
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The 10" drivers are on purpose... because they are light and quick. This is one of the major reasons they are so musical and accurate. If you notice the Studio uses 2 10" drivers instead of 1 bigger driver.
I've auditioned REL to B&W, and Velodyne at the same store, but not M&K. No comparison!!! Not even the most expensive Velodyne compares to the Studio!!! It just doesn't keep up musically. Sure, some other subs pump out tons of bass, but not the right notes!!!! Any sub can blow the doors off your room, but very few can play MUSIC!Comment
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Well, that's great! But can it play down to the low notes (20Hz and below) as well?Comment
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-6dB at 9Hz is what the studio does. Rest of the specs are at rel.netComment
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How is the port noise, they comment how quiet thier design is. Is this true?Comment
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...a minority claimed they could hear some "chuffing" on the older REL Storm III but I never heard it (and owned one for a year) - the new designs arent ported...a Storm V (5) is truly an amazing sub, for it's size, looks and muscle (and handy little remote so one can set up with ease) - if I could work for 2 companies they would be B&W and REL, B&W numero uno of course!
"...if it's too loud, you're too old!"Comment
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Only the Storm III had a little audible port noise... and even then, I had to try to hear it up close. From seating position, it was only audible when nothing but the sub was on. Other models are fine.Comment
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