N802's don't like to be moved

[Jeff]

I recently brought home my demo n802's. I put on a couple cd tracks on my outgoing Phase Tech Teatro 11.5's (Diana Krull - Temptation, plus a few other tracks). They sounded great as usual.

I then connected the N802's, removed the transportation mount for the midrange and played Diana. I was disappointed to say the least. The low
end was bloated. The mid and upper ranges were recessed. There was NO
balance. :cry: To make it worse, my father heard the entire event. He said vertually nothing (rather than saying something bad). After less than an hour of listening, I left the area.

I later returned for a six hour, 2 channel listening session. I even tried pluging up the bottom port to reduce low frequencies, with no luck. At that point I was considering returning them to the dealer. I cannot believe I'm saying that but it's true.

It's been 4 days since installation. Each day there appears to be an adjustment in balance. It's like their breaking in ( there're 4 yrs old). Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Jeff

[RobP]

You know, when I first listened to my ASW850 my feelings were close to yours, I really was not happy with my purchase. I know its not the same speaker but the idea is the same. So I stood back, took a moment and started playing with the positioning and added the spikes. It started to get better, then I turned my attention to the acoustics of the room. I added some traps on the front and back walls and some diffusors along the side walls. I then took another listen. What a huge, and I mean huge difference it made, The bass was tamed, clean and deep, with depth, the side walls disappeared and my old system became totally new again, fresh and even more enjoyable than it was. I have listened to the N802;s in a properly treated room and the bass did not seem bloated. You may want to follow the same type of process that I did. There are alot of knowledgable people here that could help you with this.

Good Luck!
Robert P.

[Jeff]

I typed two complete replies and it's telling me it cannot find my page. I'll try
again later. Sorry

[james_dmi]

Jeff the sound your describing sounds very similar to my experience with B&W's when they are being driven by an amp that does not have the grunt to control them. This would be characterised by a bloated base that lacks slam and accuracy along with an unfocused muddied presentation. The 802 along with all the ‘headed’ Nautilus range need a big amp with lots of current into low impedances. What amp are you using with the N802s?

[Jeff]

Sound gravy, james thanks for replying

Things have gotten better since my first post. I had placed the 802's in
the same speaker position as my Phase Tech's. Come to find out that
was not the ideal location. I moved the speakers an additional 18" from the rear wall and likewise from the side wall. This also took them away from my tall entertainment center and big screen Tv. Things were changing for the
better.

Having a true bi-wire amp (Rotel RB-1080, 200wpc 8 olms, 330 w/4 ohms) I connected an additional set of wire suited for low frequencies. This turned out to be a good thing. Frankly, I didn't think it would make much of a difference, I was wrong.

When repositioning my seating location, I discovered there was a mid frequency void at that exact position. Moving two feet behind and it returned.

My current set up now sounds like I think the N802's should sound...awsome!! :T They are very balance, etc, etc. I am now quite
please with my purchase. I still need to perform additional room treatments.
I have floor to ceiling base traps in the front corners and some so-so stuff on the wall. I think more could be done.

Jeff

[caleb]

A few things here - your 802's like space both at the sides and behind - about a metre all round gives a much better sound.

Aalso your amp will never drive tham properly - they are rated at 500 and this is a recomended power not a maximum.

I had just your problems when I first got my 802's and my friendly dealer came round and repositioned them - not very wife friendly having them stuck out from the walls but what an improvement in sound.

Finally an upgrade to two Bryston 7B SST made them sing.
Caleb

[junior77blue]

So, a meter of 'clearance' is the recommend space for N802s?

[caleb]

This worked for me - moving them out from the walls made huge difference to the sound stage.

But as I said not very good for her indoors!!!

[sugarmedia]

At that point I was considering returning them to the dealer. I cannot believe I'm saying that but it's true.

Jeff,

Yes, trade them and try an electrostatic speaker such as Martin Logan. Perhaps, it's time you did away with the typical cone driver that was built in last years innovative design or next years new and improved innovative box design.

And why a meter from the back wall? These speakers are not dipolar. Uh oh, here comes the fire.

[Jeff]

Surgermedia,

I would love to have a pair of ML's. I don't have any of those dealers in my area though. So that type of sound never grew on me. Knowing myself I'm sure I would enjoy their sound very much. However, I like the N802's. I've been listening to them for years.
Frankly, I never though I'd own a pair. I still can't believe I spent that type
of $ on a pair of speakers.

IMO whenever you move any speak away from the back or side wall, it's a
good thing. It'll improve many aspect of the delivery. Electrostatic speaker are VERY sensitive to placement. I would think one meter from the wall would be a minimum for those. I don't recall any mfg stating "the closer to the wall the better".

I still reflect upon my first post. For some reason, not placement, the mid and tweeter seemed recessed after the move. Every day there after the
balance improved. That's without repositioning the 802's. But once the repositioning took place things were fine.

As far as trading them in. Were way beyond that. I hope to pick up an amp this week which is more suitable to drive the 802's. :B After that, I'll be in open water with no other speakers in sight.

[sikoniko]

sugarmedia, go find your own forum to talk ML with. we like b&w's here.

[sugarmedia]

sugarmedia, go find your own forum to talk ML with. we like b&w's here.

Bam Bam-

No worries, I also own B&W Speakers "and" ML's.

However, in reponse to the initial post. He did say, 'At that point I am considering returning them to the dealer. I cannot believe I'm saying that but it's true."

So my advice for him would be to try another speaker type, if he is indeed not getting the desired results that he expects from his B&W's. Seems fair enough.

You advice, well... it leaves me to believe you are in your twenties and truth be told you have nothing to say. And at the end of the day, I'm sure you'll agree that what it all comes down to is not so much that it all comes down to anything, but that it comes down to nothing. And in summary, you have no summary. And in conclusion, you have no conclusion.

Nevertheless, you've enjoyed the opportunity to speak and we've listened.

[RobP]

Wow Sugarmedia, you can tell all of that from sikoniko's post? If you guess his height and weight, then I will be amazed! You know, one of the things that this board is good for is here to provide support to one another in situations just like Jeff's. I do have to agree with sikoniko a bit. I have been in Jeffs shoes before, you first purchase a speaker that you cannot believe you payed that much for, you get it home, fire it up and it does not sound anything like it should, or for the price, what you think it should. So you get a little frustrated and move it around a bit, and still not much better. You start wondering what in the world did I just do? So before you jump out the window and end it all, you come to this board hoping that soemone has a constructive idea to help you, and what do you get? A person tells you first off "go trade them in!!" instead of being helpful and trying to find a remedy for this guy to help him in his current situation. So sugarmedia ,by doing this yourself are you not tangled up in the same analogy that you presented to sikoniko?

[sugarmedia]

Sound Gravy, I see your post offered alot of help as well. Perhaps we are all tangled up in the same web.

Relax, eat some barbeque and enjoy the music.

[sikoniko]

sugarmedia,

I don't feel as though your response is worth my time. I only acknowledge yours to indicate that your words are as meaningless to me as your non-constructive opinion is.

[JürgenW]

Jeff,

Before I did a listening session to the N802 the dealer said they need to break in each time there are not used a couple of weeks. Furthermore before me listening to them I had to wait 1 hour in which he let them get at the right 'temperature'.

This could be one of the reasons they don't sound so well. Another is that your amp isn't qualified for the N802. These speakers deserve very good amplifiers (as you know, I think). Third, the speakers need a bit room around them to breath.

[RobP]

Sugarmedia, some BBQ does sound good, you know we are famous for here in KC. I am on my way to to grab some.

[sugarmedia]

Sound gravy..there's nothing better than Smoke Stack's baked beans.

[Jeff]

Jurgen,

you may have something their on the temperature. It's cold here in Michigan this time of year. My HT room is in my basement which I don't heat. I had to install a separate furnace in the HT room which I will only use when I venture downstairs.

It still mystifies me about the sound. Regarding the title of this thred. I
have to wonder if the jostling of the speaker (laying them down during transport, using a two wheel cart in uneven terrain about 75 yards)
somehow brought them out of calibration. And by prolonged playing brought
them back into alignment. I find it interesting there is a need of a transport screw in the back of the midrange and after transport, it's removed. The midrange must have a very sensitive alignment to justify this type of precaution.

Does anyong know of another brand of speaker where securing drivers from
movement is needed before they're transported?

[junior77blue]

Well, I guess the question is what does that screw really do? I wouldn't think alignment is the issue and that temperature would play a much bigger role.

[JürgenW]

About the alignment on the B&W website you find the following information:

'There is a large aluminium slotted screw at the back of my speaker, behind the FST midrange. What is it for and should I adjust it?

Apart from in the CM6, our FST midrange unit has an unusual mounting arrangement. The driver is mechanically isolated from its enclosure, whether it is the sphere / tube "head" or a more conventional cabinet, by flexible gel components in the fixing arrangement. To optimise the isolation, a single securing rod is used that runs from the back of the driver to the back of the enclosure. The tension on the rod is controlled by the large head straight slot screw at the back of the enclosure, and this in turn controls the pressure on the flexible gel parts. In order to prevent excessive movement of the driver under impact in transit, a clamping disc is fitted over the screw head, held in place by a cross head screw in the centre. On installation, this clamping disc and centre screw are removed in accordance with the pictorial instructions on the label fitted to the assembly.

It is important that the tension on the rod is set correctly. It is preset at the factory and should not require adjustment, except if the driver has to be removed for one reason or another, but sometimes it may get altered by mistake. This may be because one's natural instinct is to have a fiddle to see what happens, but occasionally removing the transit clamping disc has been known to loosen the main screw if it has bound itself in the thread.

If either of these has happened, refer to your local B&W dealer to have the tension reset correctly. We recommend that you do not attempt this yourself.'

Probably you're 802's are not wel adjusted. I've heard that one can hear that.

[junior77blue]

Good information to know!! Something worth checking into...