New Home for the BG Ribbons - Part 27

[ThomasW]

I am old school and am looking for a mechanical way to mount but I am also too lazy and don't have the precision tools to drill and tap 100 plus 4-40 holes

Pop-rivets? ........ 8O

Doesn't Uniweld make a machine that 'welds' steel to plex and plex to MDF? ....

Since you don't trust adhesives it must be problematic to climb on board a modern aircraft... :B

If you try the polyurethane you'll need something to hold the pieces together while it cures (24 hrs). I'd suggest a couple little dollops of hot glue to speed assembly, but realize that idea might stress your aging heart.... :rofl:

[chasw98]

Pop-rivets? ........ 8O

Umm, no. :roll:

Doesn't Uniweld make a machine that 'welds' steel to plex and plex to MDF? ....

Beyond their capability. :cry:

Since you don't trust adhesives it must be problematic to climb on board a modern aircraft... :B

Yes, sometimes I worry. :E

If you try the polyurethane you'll need something to hold the pieces together while it cures (24 hrs). I'd suggest a couple little dollops of hot glue to speed assembly, but realize that idea might stress your aging heart.... :rofl:

When you pull the taps and dies from my cold dead hands! :rofl: ;x(


Craig, you see what I mean when I mention the hot glue stuff. The curmudgeon rises to the top. :B

[Dennis H]

But I did like the way Monte used the grommets and aluminum to hold the woofers in place! :T

That looks like a pretty good way to clamp a line of planars in place as well. Maybe use foam weatherstripping instead of grommets.

[chasw98]

Here is my Saturday afternoon report.
This sure is tedious, but worth it! I only have 24 more holes to drill, tap, body drill, and then I should be ready to 'polyurethane caulk' the Neo3's in place.

[JonMarsh]

Sweat Equity being generated!

I know that feeling- ripping wood out on my patio, in 99 degree weather!

That's sweat equity, too!

But I'm NOWHERE near mounting drivers... though I will be cutting driver holes tomorrow. :B

[chasw98]

OK, I am at the point of no return. Here is a shot of the Neo3 array loaded and clamped, ready to be glued, caulked, or what ever. Looks like it will work ok. I will have to take it apart one more time to get rid of the masking that will need to be removed before I commit to the adhering process.

[ThomasW]

Looking good... :T

You'll be all practiced up so you can build mine when you're out for the RMAF... :B

[cjd]

BTW... if you're using the right tap lubricant, I have found that an auto-release chuck (such as used for driving screws with a drill) works beautifully for tapping. I've done tons of 4-40 taps this way - all by hand (no drill press).

[Johnloudb]

Looks good Chuck! Are you gluing the actual drivers to the plexiglass, or gluing the plexiglass to the MDF baffle? I thought you were gluing the plexiglass to the baffle, and screw mounting the drivers to the plexiglass. I mean what if a driver broke? Just the way you worded that, "point of no return" sounds kind of final.

[chasw98]

Looking good... :T

You'll be all practiced up so you can build mine when you're out for the RMAF... :B

When I'm practiced up? I do have another side to do! Please explain how well you treat your slaves? Or should I just ask Jon?

BTW... if you're using the right tap lubricant, I have found that an auto-release chuck (such as used for driving screws with a drill) works beautifully for tapping. I've done tons of 4-40 taps this way - all by hand (no drill press).

I am most definitely using lubricant. Tell me more about an 'auto release chuck'. I beleive we have some 'tapping heads' at work for doing automated tapping. It will spin in one direction as it taps and then reverse to come back out? I am using the drill press more for accuracy in the vertical plane than anything else. It is just such a pain to do so many and they al have to be correct. No second chance or I am off to the $pendy plexi store.

Looks good Chuck! Are you gluing the actual drivers to the plexiglass, or gluing the plexiglass to the MDF baffle? I thought you were gluing the plexiglass to the baffle, and screw mounting the drivers to the plexiglass. I mean what if a driver broke? Just the way you worded that, "point of no return" sounds kind of final.

If I go through with using the polyurethane caulk, the drivers wil be glued to the plexi. But apparently the caulk is flexible and can be cut away if a driver needs to be replaced. The Neo8's are screw mounted and the Neo3's will, in all likelihood, be glued. Yep, that's why I said point of no return.

Actually I was kind of hoping this post would generate some feedback so I could ascertain if I was following the right path. I still have to go and buy the polyurethane caulk so I am not totally committed yet.

[ThomasW]

Rapid Load/Quick releasing chuck

If what you're doing appeared to be flawed people would let you know...

Edit: If you want the possibility of removing drivers glued in with polyurethane caulk, use smallish dollops of the caulk, don't run a bead of it.

[chasw98]

Rapid Load/Quick releasing chuck

If what you're doing appeared to be flawed people would let you know...

Edit: If you want the possibility of removing drivers glued in with polyurethane caulk, use smallish dollops of the caulk, don't run a bead of it.

Here is the tapping head I am talking about.

I had to go to 3 box stores to find black polyurethane caulk. What I got is "PL Polyurethane Roof & Flashing Sealant". Does that sound right? I had planned on doing 2 Neo's as a test and only using small dollops instead of a bead.

[ThomasW]

Here is the ..... I am talking about.

Not sure why you'd need something that industrial if you have some form of drill press.

I had to go to 3 box stores to find black polyurethane caulk. What I got is "PL Polyurethane Roof & Flashing Sealant". Does that sound right?

Yes PL is the brand I've used. I doubt there's much difference between the roof stuff and the concrete sealer I've used. It's sold here at Home Depot

http://www.stickwithpl.com/ProductsList.aspx?ID=POLYURETHANE-SEALANTS

[JonMarsh]

Not sure why you'd need something that industrial if you have some form of drill press.

Yes PL is the brand I've used. I doubt there's much difference between the roof stuff and the concrete sealer I've used. It's sold here at Home Depot
http://www.stickwithpl.com/ProductsL...THANE-SEALANTS

Now THAT's a MAN's adhesive... heaven forbid you ever want to get it apart again! :W

[cjd]

I'm not describing it right - whatever it is you can get on most drills now where you set a clutch and once it reaches a certain amount of resistance it stops driving (rather, the motor turns but the chuck no longer turns). In fact, I'm probably more accurate here - it's a driver with clutch chuck for driving screws. Go to big orange and look at the drills - I bet all of them have this feature now. You just want one without much wobble. Everything I've done has been hand-held drill work.

Tapping heads (when they're good ones) are awesome. But not worth the cost for most hobbiests.

[chasw98]

I'm not describing it right - whatever it is you can get on most drills now where you set a clutch and once it reaches a certain amount of resistance it stops driving (rather, the motor turns but the chuck no longer turns). In fact, I'm probably more accurate here - it's a driver with clutch chuck for driving screws.

OK, now I get it. Yes, all of my drills have the 'slip clutch feature'. Hmmm, now I have to go and try that to see how it works. Great idea. But how does a 3 point drill chuck hold a square drive tap in the center? Some adapter?

Yes PL is the brand I've used. I doubt there's much difference between the roof stuff and the concrete sealer I've used. It's sold here at Home Depot

The tube I bought is on the upper right hand corner of that web page. Does the concrete sealant come in black because I can't find it down here?

Now THAT's a MAN's adhesive... heaven forbid you ever want to get it apart again!

Which is why you use little feminine sized dollops to hold it together. :B

[ThomasW]

The tube I bought is on the upper right hand corner of that web page. Does the concrete sealant come in black because I can't find it down here?

Color selection seems to be application specific. I just recalled seeing black tubes of stuff being sold on the shelf when I was buying the stuff to seal concrete. So it was probably the roof sealer.

Given what you're doing with it, I think any of their sealants will work.

[chasw98]

I'm not describing it right - whatever it is you can get on most drills now where you set a clutch and once it reaches a certain amount of resistance it stops driving (rather, the motor turns but the chuck no longer turns). In fact, I'm probably more accurate here - it's a driver with clutch chuck for driving screws. Go to big orange and look at the drills - I bet all of them have this feature now. You just want one without much wobble. Everything I've done has been hand-held drill work.

Tapping heads (when they're good ones) are awesome. But not worth the cost for most hobbiests.

SCORE ONE FOR CHRIS!!!!!!!!!!

I just tried chucking the tap on the circular portion of the shank, set the clutch to 8, and tapped a hole in 1/8" aluminum very easily. The only drawback I see is when you reverse the drill to back it out, you must be careful not to induce any sideways forces to snap the tap. I think you also need to have the workpiece clamped down so it won't move on you. Otherwise it seems to be a very good method. Thanks!

:T :T :T ;x( ;x( ;x(

[chasw98]

Drilling & tapping in.

Sealant out.

I just did 8 drivers in less than an hour.

Got my technique down and it works like a charm.

Thanks Chris!

[cjd]

No problem. Tapping heat sinks sucks otherwise... copper is the worst it is so soft.

You don't really need a solid grasp beyond what you can get gripping the round part of your tap. That's beyond the threshhold where you stop.

[Hank]

Hank, will the 4496 you pointed to in your post be strong enough to do the job of holding the plexiglass with the drivers mounted to it in the wooden MDF frame?

Probably, but I not sure, as that's not my division - I take care of Projection Systems. I'm disappointed you didn't use the black DS foam tape, but I can see that you are gettin' your jolly's from drillin' and tappin' :T You might want to use neoprene washers under the Neo screw heads and on the screws against the under side of the Neo's for some isolation. Yessir, you're going to be so good at this, that you'll make Thomas a pair that will win prizes

I know that feeling- ripping wood out on my patio, in 99 degree weather!

Speaking of cutting in the heat, it's been over 100 here in Austin, and in a state of temporary insanity, I agreed to cut several sheets of MDF into hundreds of parts for a friend who is starting a new venture with his design of an audiophile isolation platform. So, I'm up late at night, sweating and running MDF across my table saw in my garage. Real smart :roll:

[JonMarsh]

Speaking of cutting in the heat, it's been over 100 here in Austin, and in a state of temporary insanity, I agreed to cut several sheets of MDF into hundreds of parts for a friend who is starting a new venture with his design of an audiophile isolation platform. So, I'm up late at night, sweating and running MDF across my table saw in my garage. Real smart :roll:

Hank, Hank... where did we go wrong raising you? That's almost as silly as me cutting MDF on Sunday with outdoor temps at 107 in the shade.

Tsk tsk! :naughty:

Well, I wish you and your friend the best.

Things are going much faster for me today, as I have the fixture's fine tuned and six routers set up for specific jobs - should make some good progress on the front panels for four speakers today.

[chasw98]

six routers set up for specific jobs

Don't go crazy there with tools now................ Must be nice! ;x(
Take your time so you don't have to do it twice. :T

[JonMarsh]

Don't go crazy there with tools now................ Must be nice! ;x(
Take your time so you don't have to do it twice. :T

That's why there's six setup for different jobs- set it up once, verify twice, then use as required! :B

That way I don't have to do it twice.

It would be a lot easier if I wasn't building four of these- but then I'm a little more relaxed because I try out the "critical" tasks on the RS180 set first, in case I encounter an "oops".

[chasw98]

I'm almost afraid to ask,,, but how many Jasper Jigs do you have?

[JonMarsh]

I'm almost afraid to ask,,, but how many Jasper Jigs do you have?

Only one... setup on a DeWalt 621, one of the nicest little plunge routers ever made, and my favorite for use with a Jaspar jig, due to it's combination of light weight, dust removal, and reasonably powerful motor. It's setup with either a 1/2" shank 8 mm spiral upcut bit, or a 1/2" shank 3/4" straight cut bit for flange rebates.

But then there's a Bosch Colt router setup with a spiral upcut bit or 3/4" straight bit for with dedicated drilled holes for tweeter radius in the base. This one is also used with a pattern template base and spiral upcut bit for midrange outline cuts.

And there's a Bosch Colt router with what I call my "door jamb" pattern bit for doing the Accuton C79 flange rebate.

And there's an Hitachi M12V setup with a Whiteside 1-1/8" pattern bit, used for truing up tweeter, midrage, and woofer through holes with a top clamped on pattern, or for cleaning out the last bit after a woofer pass through hole has been mostly cut with a spiral upcut bit, but the last bit done with a saber saw.

And there's another Hitachi M12V (I LOVE the M12V router! creamy smooth and as much torque as an ocean liner) with a Bosch 1/2" rabbiting bit for tweeter flanges, or with a stage 1 45 degree chamfer bit.

And there's a Ryobi RE180PL1 with a Green River deep chamfer bit for stage 2 backside chamfer relief.

I have a Porter Cable trim router, too, but haven't gotten that out- I'm really not into fixed speed routers of any size anymore. :W

[Amphiprion]

The dust collection on the DW621 has to be the one of the best features any router could have. As far as the M12V, didn't they change it and raise the price a bunch? I use to remember them being relatively inexpensive and plain looking and now they look all modern and cost more. I always wanted to get one since they are such a powerhouse but wasn't sure how the new version measured up.

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, they "Nike'd" it, in a manner of speaking. Originally you could pick them up for about $180 to $200, sometimes better, and they are built like an absolute tank- I have two of the older ones- haven't ever tried the new one.

Ones I have:




New version: M12V2



Of course, my first reaction is that it's just styled for a younger generation, with the same motor underneath, but it does have dust collection built into the base, and possibly some refinements to the height adjustment... but I DO NOT need to be buying more routers at this time!! :W

It's a weakness I have- for some men it's gambling, for others, it's loose women; for me, it's routers.

Probably works just as well, knowing them- the Hitachi sliding compound miter saw I have is very well made and works quite well- sometimes I joke with Thomas that if I could get "Hitachi Car" and "Hitachi Motorcycle" and "Hitachi Girlfriend" I'd go all Hitachi. :W There tools are generally very well made in my experience.

[Hank]

Hank, Hank... where did we go wrong raising you?

Yeah, I'm fairly unteachable - just ask my ex ops:

I too love my Dewalt 621 - can't figure why more router manufacturers don't include effective dust removal. Then there's my big Freud router mounted in the table/cabinet I built for it. Sometimes you just can't beat the stability of a router table - I've slid many speaker cabinets across it with a roundover bit mounted in the Freud - makes for perfect cabinet corner roundovers.

Jon, you've got as many routers as I have clamps (another item a man can't have too many of).

The new Hitachi looks like it was designed for a new cartoony sci-fi Transformers type movie :lol:

[chasw98]

Hank:

You are a man after my heart. I have a 621 (love the dust collection!) and I have an older Porter Cable mounted in the table for the same reason you do. I also keep a couple of bars of 1/4" thick 2" x 2" aluminum angle around for impromptu fences and such.

[JonMarsh]

The new Hitachi looks like it was designed for a new cartoony sci-fi Transformers type movie :lol:

You took the words right out of my mouth!

You know, I've got a few clamps, too.... when this picture was taken, there was another panel similarly clamped up at the same time...




:B



Yeah, you know the old saying- he who dies with the most clamps and routers wins...

[Dennis H]

Those Plitron (or are they Equitech?) clamps look pretty spendy.

[Bear]

New version: M12V2

I didn't know that Alienware made routers! :T

[chasw98]

Here is the first side getting glued up to form a 1 1/2" thick baffle. Similar to the Battle of Dunkirk every man, women, and clamp was called upon to do their duty.

And although not as pretty, or dainty, or classy as that Ardent project under the supervision of the Evil Twin occurring on the western planet of Livermorium, this will do the job. Not bad for a small outpost of rebels in Margatia. I am off to the Venetian Pool for the morning while this all sets up. I understand that Evil Twin wears black and works in the 100 degree weather on the western side of the galaxy. We don't! :T :rofl: :B

[JonMarsh]

Very massive and manly, Chuck! :T

[ThomasW]

I am off to the Venetian Pool for the morning while this all sets up.

My guess is Deb won't allow you to go HERE...... :rofl:

[CraigJ]

Thomas,

I followed that link and my knees got Weeki Wachee, what kind of site is that? ops: Guess they allow children.....

Cj

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, you ought not to be going down those internet paths to places a confirmed bachelor like ThomasW visits from time to time.... :W

[ThomasW]

That place is hysterical they did a feature about it on the Travel channel. So it has a solid 'G' rating

[chasw98]

Had to keep this thread on the first page. Got a little work done on the 'framework' of the unit. I need to attach another slab of MDF and router out some holes in it to get one at a closer point of completion. (At least to where I can stand it up and listen to it in stereo).





The clamped aluminum bar is just holding the plexiglass driver assembly in place.

[ThomasW]

Gees dude that's a lot of drivers..... :B

[JonMarsh]

And what holds that up when it's being a speaker? If it fell on you, the results would be scary....

[kingpin]

hey chuck, you may also want to try using the black mirror mastic in a caulking tube form. i think it may be what you want. that roof sealant is probably going to stink to the high heavens.

Mike

[---k---]

Just caught up on this thread. Wow! Chuck, I now anoint you officially that dude who while standing next to, everyone else can now appear reasonable (except for Jon and Thomas). Good to see you posting pictures of your build.

Just FYI, this is the Home selling polyurethane sealant in the US:

http://www.buildingsystems.basf.com/documents/np2_tdg.PDF

np2_tdg.PDF

Real good stuff and in 40 standard colours including black. Get it at a real construction supply store. They also sell a 1-part sausage pack, but then you would have to buy the gun.

This is #2: http://www.sikaconstruction.com/tds-...lex2cNS-us.pdf

And #3:

dymeric_240FC_DSEnglish.pdf

All really good products, and basically the same as PL Concrete & masonry crap Thomas linked to. (Though more than likely the PL is made by either BASF or Sika) My projects have put down miles and miles of all three.

Find yourself a contractor who buy it for you and get the good stuff.

I think that is the limit of what I can contribute to this thread.

[Hank]

Double-sided foam tape - some day someone will listen...

Chuck, please put me in your will - in case that falls on you, I would get the drivers - oh, and I'd of course miss you around here.
What will your finish be? I'm seriously considering my favorite veneer, Rosewood.