Pittsburgh get together feedback

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  • mackintire
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 186

    #1

    Pittsburgh get together feedback

    First I wanted to thank Finleyville for opening up his home to all of us. I also wanted to thank those that brought their equipment over for comparison and enjoyment.


    I would like to encourage others to express their opinions about what they heard here in this post.


    To my ears the room seemed a little lively and active in the 4k+ region making most of the speakers sound a brighter and slightly more forward than that they would sound normally.

    The speakers were placed about 3 feet from the rear wall with the following arrangement.

    From the outside in: Zaph's Seas L18 / Seas 27TBFCG, The MTM Noobsters, Clearwave Dynamic 4T.



    For me: In our listening room the Zaph L18's had the best sound above 60hz, they worked perfectly in the room with a smooth sound I could listen too all day long. Frankly I was very impressed as I did not expect them to sound that good. Although I wished I could have gotten the chance to listen to them longer, from a sheer enjoyment point of view I REALLY liked the sound that they produced.
    Clean, clear, and uncolored, but as expected not very solid in the lower octaves. If I may indulge in a little useless english retoric for a moment If I could sum up how these sound in one word that word would be "elegant"



    I found the The MTM noobsters to be an interesting design. One thing I noticed very quickly was that they seemed to require a lot of distance for the drivers to sum properly. I wouldn't recommend these to anyone in a small room or with a listening distance under 6'. Once you are farther than 6' the drivers sound sums fairly well. I wasn't sure if there was any custom BSC in the speakers or if the front port, compared to the normal rear firing port changed the sound quality, but they did sound slightly muddy in the midbass and also compressed as if there was more information being generated by the drivers that what was intended to be heard. Given their cost I would say that they are a good value, but not my favorites. P.S. The bass overall was decent, and let me say quite good for a design this inexpensive.


    Dougie085' s 4T speakers were by spec the best in the house. As it was explained to me his 4T's were slightly larger than the norm with more internal volume and a higher Q, the port was also tuned lower than the reference design. The bass response in room was excellent. For most music there was no need for a subwoofer with those towers. Sonically in room, from the lower midrange down they were awesome. During our listening we demoed a sample of music featuring a drum solo. The imaging and presence was so perfect that I repeatedly ended up turning my head half expecting a real drum kit to be in the room. Very impressive. Doug explained that they sounded a little less forward in his enviroment and after a while I came to the conclusion that the room acoustics were most likely at fault for the harder forward sound we were experiencing. Probably the best set in the room, but for me "In THAT Room" I prefered the Zaph L18s.
    Last edited by mackintire; 08 March 2009, 02:59 Sunday.
  • Hdale85
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 16120

    #2
    I would like to add that I think the LP we were using to demo the speakers all at once probably wasn't the best. We put on some of my digital stuff (HTPC through a dual mono WM8740 DAC) and it sounded much less bright then the LP of DSOTM. All in all I think the top end of the L18's were a bit laid back and as such it probably made the 4T's seem to sound forward that much more. The room was definitely a bit more lively then my listening area I have right now. The song Time on DSOTM, it was hard to stand the clocks at the beginning while in my listening area I never have an issue with the same track. Also as I said I think the DSOTM LP was probably a bit more damaged then I would of liked and maybe just a brighter pressing all together?

    The noobsters were pretty impressive for their very small cost. I wouldn't hesitate recommending them to someone with the space they need and on a low budget.

    The L18's have always been fantastic and that was my second or third time hearing them. Like I said though I think they are a bit more laid back then they really should be. Some instruments are supposed to be rather harsh in real life and generally I go for accurate reproduction. But I know some prefer the laid back sound. I listened to the 4T's some more when I got home and could easily tell a pretty big difference from his room and mine.

    All the speakers were great! The pre-amp that John's dad brought was spectacular as well. I really didn't hear much of a difference between straight from my DAC to my amp then through the preamp which is a good thing in my books. It added just a bit of tubey sound to the low end which was very nice. With that said I'm not interested in building a tube pre again....

    Comment

    • Jed
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Apr 2005
      • 3621

      #3
      I wish I could have gotten down there to hear your systems. Next time might work out better for me. From what Dougie told me, everyone really liked the Dynamic 4Ts, so that's great to hear.

      I must admit I didn't tune the Dynamics with any vinyl. Just for a neutral response, so if the source is bright, so will the Dynamics reveal that recording. The response of the Dynamics is easily tweaked with 2 resistors in the crossovers if someone preferred a BBC dip or additional BSC.

      I had someone over to my house to hear the Dynamics and he wanted a brighter top end... so a lot will depend on the room. Luckily, the crossovers are easily tweaked to suit one's tastes and system.

      Jed

      Comment

      • Hdale85
        Ultra Senior Member
        • Jan 2006
        • 16120

        #4
        I wish you could of made it as well Jed, several people had many questions that I could not answer about the 4T's :B

        Comment

        • Jed
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Apr 2005
          • 3621

          #5
          I'm here to answer any questions that come up. Feel free.

          Let me know the next time you guys have a get together too.

          Comment

          • wkhanna
            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
            • Jan 2006
            • 5674

            #6
            Where are the PICS?

            I am so bummed that Michelle and I could be there! Sounds as though there was a lot of great equipment.

            I do know Michael and Susan are two of the greatest people we have ever had the pleasure of knowing, and are also the most generous and gracious hosts you could ever meet, so I am sure everyone had a great time.

            Now someone better POST SOME PICS!!!!!!!
            _


            Bill

            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

            FinleyAudio

            Comment

            • PewterTA
              Super Senior Member
              • Nov 2004
              • 2900

              #7
              Sorry I couldn't make it to the meet. Friday Night, Saturday, and Sunday this weekend, I got killed with everything all at once. I had to let a few things give and one was my enjoyment of listening to music. :cry:

              I wanted to post up that I couldn't make it to let Michael know, but I don't have any internet now at home until Friday (Fios install date).

              I'm glad everyone had a great time and it sounds like an amazing meet and I'm really frustrated with life that I couldn't make it there. :M

              Oh well, hopefully the get-together will continue and I will definitely make it to the next one!!! :yesnod:
              Digital Audio makes me Happy.
              -Dan

              Comment

              • bbecker1983
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2009
                • 26

                #8
                The L18s were a bit subdued IMO. I having a girlfriend in the Duquense Orchestra, have been to about 10 total concerts since early November 2008. With what classical music was played I can tell that the room was a bit bright. And there is a major null where the front window is.

                What I would do is use a heavier curtain to deaden the widow up, that way less sound escapes. The other issue was side and rear wall reflection. I would reframe any pictures or posters, you can take 1/8in thick foam with adheasive backing, cover the cardboard backing of the frames/posters. Its not much but would cut down on early or doubled reflections.

                Comment

                • Finleyville
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 350

                  #9
                  Well I hope everyone enjoyed themselves, because I know Susan and I did!

                  I want to thank everyone again for showing up and bringing all the equipment and food. From the delicate turntables and tube preamps to the monstrous towers and sherpa worthy amplifiers were shlepped over and hooked up for everyone's enjoyment. We were all sorry that everyone could not join us for some music, food, and the Jameson 12 year! To be quite honest I was very surprised and sad that all the members had to leave so soon. How dare they have lives outside of audio!

                  It was great to hear some vinyl in my own home. I never would have listened to some quality heavy gram records and great preamp if it were not for the efforts of the John and John crew. ( I still cannot believe you had some Kraftwork stuff! :T )

                  Mackintire showed us some newer TB drivers with massive magnet structures that will be going into an upcoming future project. I am eager to hear that one. I hope he starts a new thread in the DIY section with many pictures when he starts.

                  Dougie, what can I say. I appreciate your efforts in not only bringing over everything, but also in building some very impressive equipment. You should be proud. As I said Saturday, that one trance track with the pipe organ ending has never been properly reproduced for me until that day. As you mentioned I had visible goosebumps afterward. Now I can fully respect Jed's work and place him in the upper tier of designers. Plus your RPA-2 had super reserves for any music type!

                  -----------------------------

                  Now for a pic of everything!

                  Click image for larger version

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                  The speakers from outside in are the Zaph L18's, Noobsters MTM, and the Dynamic 4T's. The small tables in front of the window support a Audio Horizons preamp, two single channel amps and the turntable. In front is Dougie's setup consisting of an Emotiva RPA-2, his HTPC with monitor, and his DIY DAC with switchable inputs.

                  Now I guess I need to have my hearing checked. Because I do not think my Zaph's are laid back at all like everyone else does. While I do concede that the 4T's were more forward sounding in comparison, I do not feel that I am losing any information especially in the upper octaves. I am hearing huge detail in almost all music. However, the 4T's blow my meager TM's out of the water with all the lower octave information. I was surprised of how deep but controlled the bass was reproduced. It sounded tight and accurate with no sub needed for most music, really.

                  I cannot wait to do this again! I was given the green light to host another one in the future! Woohoo! :T
                  Last edited by theSven; 04 June 2025, 10:52 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location
                  BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                  Comment

                  • Hdale85
                    Ultra Senior Member
                    • Jan 2006
                    • 16120

                    #10
                    So the wife doesn't mind seeing all your crazy internet audio friends again huh?

                    Now for some clarification I definitely don't think you're losing any detail or anything in the L18 design. I just felt that the tweeters were not quite as forwards as they should of been I suppose? In you're setup that may be a good thing though


                    Also should mention I think everyone was pretty impressed with the RPA-2 I know I sure was. That was the first real workout it's gotten since I got it like 2 weeks ago.

                    Comment

                    • bbecker1983
                      Junior Member
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 26

                      #11
                      Yeah, I think the Zaphs definitely played the info that was given, but didnt produce the virtuosic properties of it. I didnt finish my ealier post, got busy at work here.

                      I think a less lively room with the 4T's is ftw, if you do (build 4T's) those Mike and touch up the acoustics of the room, you'd have an amazing system that would put systems in the $15,000 range a serious swet!! :T I talked to my girlfriend, if the next gtg is after April 20th, she would be delighted to come, right now she has her recital and finals to concern with.. :E

                      Comment

                      • Finleyville
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 350

                        #12
                        Well, even though I have the green light to host another GTG it took me about 6 months to receive this past weekend off. So if I host again it will not be for a while. Plus no one wants to keep bringing over all the heavy stuff every third month for a listening session.

                        wkhanna also was lying out his wazoo about me. I am very imposing, intimidating, and mean. My wife says that the bribe check for your compliments is in the mail.
                        BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                        Comment

                        • Hdale85
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Jan 2006
                          • 16120

                          #13
                          Mean? Hah!

                          Comment

                          • Jed
                            Ultra Senior Member
                            • Apr 2005
                            • 3621

                            #14
                            Did you guys try switching the speaker positions? In that room the Zaph design is getting more reinforcement from the back wall- hence the warmer tonal balance of that design. Just a guess.

                            Comment

                            • Jed
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • Apr 2005
                              • 3621

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Finleyville
                              As you mentioned I had visible goosebumps afterward. Now I can fully respect Jed's work and place him in the upper tier of designers.
                              Wow... thank you for that... I'm honored. :T

                              Comment

                              • Hdale85
                                Ultra Senior Member
                                • Jan 2006
                                • 16120

                                #16
                                No we didn't move anything. It very well could of been placement as his speakers were definitely more towards the corner.

                                Comment

                                • Finleyville
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Sep 2006
                                  • 350

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Jed
                                  Wow... thank you for that... I'm honored. :T
                                  Well Jed, if you listen to that track anywhere near 95dB+ you will understand how difficult it is to reproduce without any audible distortion. Yes, a great amp is needed too (thank you RPA-2!). But only a very well designed setup can deftly play that track IMO. BTW, you have a PM.
                                  BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                  Comment

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