Blu Ray vs Regular DVD Player

[omarj]

I currently have a Hitachi 55 Inch Plasma which is HD Ready and has a resolution of 1366 by 768. It is connected to a Denon DVD player 3930 via an HDMI cable that I got from Monster. Think it cost me about USD 300, and I know it was the best one they had at the time. My question is this. How much difference would there be if I had an HD TV and it was connected through a Blu ray player. Would the difference be night and day. I would think not in my opinion, although I am sure there would be a discernable difference. Just wanted to know how much comparitively. Would it be like going from the Laser Disc Technology to the DVD Technology? Many Thanks.

[John Holmes]

Welcome to the Guide, omarj!

HD ready is an HDTV without the tuner for over-the-air HD channels. So you just need to hook an HD source to your Hitachi.

As to the difference, yes there is. Though, only you can say if it's enough to justify the cost of a new player. But, if you already have cable or satellite, you could try going HD there first to see the difference.

[omarj]

Thanks. So if I connect a blu ray player, will the tv be able to display 1920*1080p?

[littlesaint]

A Blu-ray player will improve the picture if you are watching a Blu-ray disc. If it's just a regular DVD, you might see some improvement, but it will not be anywhere close to a Blu-ray disc. Your TV is fixed at 1366x768 so you will not see the full 1920x1080 resolution, but you will utilize your resolution without up-scaling (again, if it's a Blu-ray disc) which is where the difference is. At that screen size the benefit of full 1920x1080 resolution is diminished for most normal viewing distances anyway.

[Race Car Driver]

Once you take advantage of the BR picture, you are going to want to hear the BR difference! That is a whole new world!!

[Dean McManis]

It does depend on how good your eye sight is, and how far away the TV is.
Of course Blu-Ray looks best and reveals it's superior resolution with 1920 X 1080 displays, but to me it's still a HUGE visible improvement seeing a 1920 X 1080 source with a 1365 X 768 display over an upconverted DVD picture. The color is visibly better and you start noticing all of the revealed details shown with the higher resolution like seeing texture detail and a crispness that normal DVD resolution cannot show.

I do however agree that it might be a better investment to get a HD Tivo box and HD satillite/cable setup as so many regular TV programs and movies are available to watch in HD resolution today. :T

[wettou]

On any screen larger than 50 inch blu ray rules, I can't stand watching my DVDs on the 2:35 128" screen it hurts my eyes :W

Plus the sound coming out of blu ray creams DVDs

[1Michael]

I think we need to make it clear that a standard DVD player plays at a resolution of 480 and no higher. Forget about upconverters as this is only a marketing ploy because you cannot create something from nothing. Blu Ray plays at a resolution of 1080p, this is High Def not low def at 480. Yes there is a big difference.

[littlesaint]

I think we need to make it clear that a standard DVD player plays at a resolution of 480 and no higher. Forget about upconverters as this is only a marketing ploy because you cannot create something from nothing. Blu Ray plays at a resolution of 1080p, this is High Def not low def at 480. Yes there is a big difference.

Of course you can make something from nothing. It's called interpolation, and even Blu-ray uses it to re-create its video stream from the compressed (usually h.264/AVC) file. With DVD, the good scalers, coupled with good de-interlacing, create a fantastic upscaled picture. Not Blu-ray or HD-DVD quality certainly, but very good none the less. I still use my XA2 HD-DVD player primarily just for upscaling my DVDs. Unless you have the money to re-purchase everything as Blu-ray, upscaling with a good player is the best option.

[wettou]

If you are not convinced that blu ray is better then just stick to DVD and it's your loss 8O

[littlesaint]

If you are not convinced that blu ray is better then just stick to DVD and it's your loss 8O

I didn't say blu-ray wasn't better, only that it's wrong to completely dismiss properly upscaled DVD. Try reading before posting. :T

[Allegiance]

Blu-ray is night and day difference to DVD. :T

[gianni]

Of course BluRay is better than DVD.

However, if you have seen a properly upscaled DVD, you would not say upscaling is bogus. Good upscaling can be impressive.

Most of the BR players do a good with BR. Where some fall apart is SD DVD upscaling. Upscaling is what separates oK BR players from good ones. In fact, I will wager that a good upscaler will look about as good on DVD as some of the compressed HD cable channels...not all but many.

Look at some of the Reon equipped BR players or check out the upscaling of the Pioneer BDP-51fd, Panasonic BD35. You might be surprised. I too used to be an upscaling skeptic but no longer.

[George Bellefontaine]

Look at some of the Reon equipped BR players or check out the upscaling of the Pioneer BDP-51fd, Panasonic BD35. You might be surprised. I too used to be an upscaling skeptic but no longer.

I can vouch for the Panasonic BD35. It not only upconverts beautifully, it also allows you to watch standard dvds in 24p if your projector or TV has that feature.

[1Michael]

Well all I can say is I have bought a upscaling dvd player and I say they are a waste of money. Go Blu Ray for high def or stick with low res dvd :T

[impala454]

I have a feeling your standard J6P goes out and gets a new player (whether it's blu-ray or an upscaler), takes it home, unplugs his S-video or composite cable, then plugs that into the new player, and does one of two things:

1. Is wowed by the amazing difference (which isn't really there, but he "sees" it because of the money/expectations he had)

2. Wonders why there's not much difference.

Not saying this is the case with buggers, but I'd be willing to bet this happens all the time. The lack of documentation/information with these new players is pathetic. There needs to be a giant sign with big red letters on it right when you open the box, explaining that you at least need a component or HDMI cable, what that is, and where to plug it in, and that you need to get rid of your composite cables (yes, I've seen people using both).

[StretchZep]

I am addicted

I just went from a Sony Progressive scan that fed into a 35" RCA CRT that I purchased back in 1991. Today I have the Pioneer PDP 5020 FD 50" Plasma
fed by the Pioneer BDP-51FD Blu Ray Disc Player. Let me tell you that there is no comparison. None Nadda!!! Get out of town! The Color alone will knock your socks off! Sound......I can't even begin to tell you. I am beyond impressed. I have a Sony 30" HD CRT in the family room for the kids,that I hooked a Comcast HD box to and took back after about a month. Just couldn't see what all the fuss was about.Until now I pretty much figured HD and Blu Ray were just a bunch of hype! Not anymore my friends. I have the Steve Miller live Performance DVD from Chicago that is just HD and it is beautiful. I just got the Tom Petty Soundstage Blu Ray and it will actually have you crying for how pretty the colors are and how crystal clear the sound is. I am only a week into this set up and you all will probably be able to catch me on A&E Intervention soon because I already have a problem!!! :lol:

[gianni]

I just went from a Sony Progressive scan that fed into a 35" RCA CRT that I purchased back in 1991. Today I have the Pioneer PDP 5020 FD 50" Plasma
fed by the Pioneer BDP-51FD Blu Ray Disc Player. Let me tell you that there is no comparison. None Nadda!!! Get out of town! The Color alone will knock your socks off! Sound......I can't even begin to tell you. I am beyond impressed. I have a Sony 30" HD CRT in the family room for the kids,that I hooked a Comcast HD box to and took back after about a month. Just couldn't see what all the fuss was about.Until now I pretty much figured HD and Blu Ray were just a bunch of hype! Not anymore my friends. I have the Steve Miller live Performance DVD from Chicago that is just HD and it is beautiful. I just got the Tom Petty Soundstage Blu Ray and it will actually have you crying for how pretty the colors are and how crystal clear the sound is. I am only a week into this set up and you all will probably be able to catch me on A&E Intervention soon because I already have a problem!!! :lol:

I have the same combo.... :T

[gianni]

Well all I can say is I have bought a upscaling dvd player and I say they are a waste of money. Go Blu Ray for high def or stick with low res dvd :T

A few questions that might explain why you don't see any difference:

1 Which TV or display are you using?
2 Which player were you using for upscaling?
3 How did you connect the player to the display?
4 What settings did you use?

[maseline_98]

I have a feeling your standard J6P goes out and gets a new player (whether it's blu-ray or an upscaler), takes it home, unplugs his S-video or composite cable, then plugs that into the new player, and does one of two things:

1. Is wowed by the amazing difference (which isn't really there, but he "sees" it because of the money/expectations he had)

2. Wonders why there's not much difference.

Not saying this is the case with buggers, but I'd be willing to bet this happens all the time. The lack of documentation/information with these new players is pathetic. There needs to be a giant sign with big red letters on it right when you open the box, explaining that you at least need a component or HDMI cable, what that is, and where to plug it in, and that you need to get rid of your composite cables (yes, I've seen people using both).

I also see people on the opposite end of the spectrum that buy a HDTV or blu-ray player and have been talked into a $150 HDMI monster cable from the good ol' folks from best buy.

Neither of these people actually know what they are doing(as I 'used' to be one of them). I'm glad I joined this forum many moons ago. With the superior guidance of the people from this forum :T , I can say that have become at least knowledgeable enough to help my lost friends out when they are looking to buy a piece of HT equipment. There are still those people in my life that do not listen to me on the subject line of BOSE(Buy Other Speaker Equipment). The response is usually, "But they are so small...and they sound good enough".

[StretchZep]

So how long have you had this set up and does it still make you crazy in love with it? I still cannot believe that combo is sitting in my living room I have to check on it before I go to work in the AM! I started out in the early days with a Curtis Mathis HI FI Stereo VHS player that cost me $1100.oo back in the eighties and ran it through my $1000 Yamaha Rack system. Well Klipsch came next , then Rotel, now Pioneer! I am so happy and thankful to this forum and the one over at Klipsch for helping me make informed decisions. It has taken me 50 years to reach this point. I used to hook old speakers in tandem to an old black and white TV in my bedroom to get the stereo effect before it was even thought of in TV. We have certainly come a long way, and I know that I have only barely scratched the surface compared to most on here but I am HAPPY and that is worth it's weight in gold. Take care and enjoy your setup!

[John Holmes]

StetchZep and maseline_98 touched on key points, that I believe are important to remember when giving our opinions to assist others. We all have a different level of satisfaction.

I have a lot of respect of those, that purchase because there is a need (whatever that may be). Than those which purchase because it's trendy.

I really miss the days of buying equipment that lifecycle would last so that, our children would have it until they bought their own.


This is why I kept my first response to the omarj simple. There are a ton of people that have seen Blu-ray and decided to stay with standard dvd. The range of reasons vary. But, all are good reason for that person.

[gianni]

StretchZep,

I've had mine for about 3 weeks. The longer I have it, the more I appreciate it.
Yeah, sometimes I do have to pinch myself to make sure I a not dreaming - it is that good. I took the time to use the break-in procedure over at the __science forum and started out with the recommended settings - impressive. I too have some Rotel gear which I also really like. My stuff did not come quick and easy either. I feel like I'm set for a while now to weather this economic storm. Enjoy your toys.

[gianni]

StetchZep and maseline_98 touched on key points, that I believe are important to remember when giving our opinions to assist others. We all have a different level of satisfaction.

I have a lot of respect of those, that purchase because there is a need (whatever that may be). Than those which purchase because it's trendy.

I really miss the days of buying equipment that lifecycle would last so that, our children would have it until they bought their own.


This is why I kept my first response to the omarj simple. There are a ton of people that have seen Blu-ray and decided to stay with standard dvd. The range of reasons vary. But, all are good reason for that person.

I do agree with you here. Seems like some upgrade at a never ending pace from perfectly good equipment. Then again some of the players built today are so cheap and light they are quasi disposable but stil impressive for what you can get for a few bucks. I generally prefer to buy up a little bit to the point where diminishing returns begin to set in. The heck with trendy or wow factor as long as it suits my purposes. I tend to keep my gear longer than most. Still have my RSX-1055 from 2001 and my M&K 850's. I'm using my '97 M&K LCR 55's in a secondary system. Are you still using your M&Ks ?

I got into BluRay by default - it was offered as a throw-in for the TV I got a great deal on. What pushed me over the edge was when I found out what a good upscaler the included player was. To me this is just as important as the BluRay capability just based on the availability of SD DVD titles alone. I can understand people not being eager to jump into BR. As for the OP, it looks as if he has a good DVD player in the Denon 3930. Depending on his expectations, BR may not be a night and day improvement.

[John Holmes]

I do agree with you here. Seems like some upgrade at a never ending pace from perfectly good equipment. Then again some of the players built today are so cheap and light they are quasi disposable but stil impressive for what you can get for a few bucks. I generally prefer to buy up a little bit to the point where diminishing returns begin to set in. The heck with trendy or wow factor as long as it suits my purposes. I tend to keep my gear longer than most. Still have my RSX-1055 from 2001 and my M&K 850's. I'm using my '97 M&K LCR 55's in a secondary system. Are you still using your M&Ks ?

I got into BluRay by default - it was offered as a throw-in for the TV I got a great deal on. What pushed me over the edge was when I found out what a good upscaler the included player was. To me this is just as important as the BluRay capability just based on the availability of SD DVD titles alone. I can understand people not being eager to jump into BR. As for the OP, it looks as if he has a good DVD player in the Denon 3930. Depending on his expectations, BR may not be a night and day improvement.

Yes sir, I still have my M&K's! I would still love to get a nice set of 150's but, I just "want" them...not "need" them. :W

And yes, the Denon 3930 is a very solid player. Which was another reason I stated, the difference may not be huge enough for omarj, with his current size display. If he had a front projection system, then the difference would be more noticable.

I'm not saying he wouldn't see any difference on the Hitachi. The question is difference enough to justify the cost.

[1Michael]

1 Which TV or display are you using?
2 Which player were you using for upscaling?
3 How did you connect the player to the display?
4 What settings did you use?

Vizio 1080p 47 inch
samsung set to upscale to 1080p
HDMI
All 1080p, I could switch between not up converting and up converting and the difference was definitely not the difference between 480 and 1080 although the picture changed a microscopic amount.
I can see the difference between 720 and 1080 on my HD TV converter box by switching back and forth and my eyes most assuredly see the difference.
The bottom line is you can waste your money on a supposed up converting unit or buy a real HD Blu Ray player. Your choice

[bbecker1983]

Blu-Ray is better yes, there is no way an upscaled DVD will ever look as good. I don't care how much money you throw at the process. 480i SD-DVD upconverted merely takes what is already existing, and x2.25 for 1080 and x1.5 for 720.

Since DVD is encoded in an interlaced format (fields A*B) it does greatly benefit from quality filtering.

IMO Taking SD-DVD (480i) running through a good filter that de-interlaces it and combines the fields with proper cadence pulldown (3:2, 2:2) across the RBG color scale will look really good. Along with mosaic filtering so that blocking doesnt occur during fast moving scenes etc look smooth and keep detail is also great overall image.

Your 3930 does a kick-butt job on all this, so I would invest in good Panasonic DMP-BD35 or BD55 player. Use the 3930 for SD-DVD and the BD for its own purpose. I would only run the 3930 at 480p, let your TV scale the image information to its native resolution. Its a waste going 480i -> 720p/1080i/p -> native cause the image could end up being downscaled, or over processed, adding a softness to the image, or even delays, where audio is faster then the image etc...

Bobby

[gianni]

1 Which TV or display are you using?
2 Which player were you using for upscaling?
3 How did you connect the player to the display?
4 What settings did you use?

Vizio 1080p 47 inch
samsung set to upscale to 1080p
HDMI
All 1080p, I could switch between not up converting and up converting and the difference was definitely not the difference between 480 and 1080 although the picture changed a microscopic amount.
I can see the difference between 720 and 1080 on my HD TV converter box by switching back and forth and my eyes most assuredly see the difference.
The bottom line is you can waste your money on a supposed up converting unit or buy a real HD Blu Ray player. Your choice

I have no reason not to believe your claim that you don't see significant difference.

As you already know, either the TV or the player will have to upscale. The quality of the processing in each will determine which looks better ( all else being equal ). If both do a great job, there may not be a significant difference. You may be fortunate enough to have great upscaling in both. Or, you may have less than great but similar upscaling in both. And, in your case, it may be a waste of money based on your observations to date.

This is not always the case. There are some very good TV's with built in upscaling that will not perform as well as some found in DVD players. The difference can be very obvious in some cases. In these instances, especially when someone has a large DVD collection, buying a good upscaling DVD player is far from a waste of money given how little is available on Blu-ray.

And for those interested in a Blu-ray player, the SD DVD upconversion performance is important unless you want to limit your viewing choices. Not all BR players are good at upconverting. In fact, the real good ones are still in the minority.

It is good that you share your experience here on this forum. Others seeking advice can further question you to see if your situation may apply to them. However, let me suggest you resist making absolute statements such as 'you can waste your money on a supposed upconverting unit'. Your assumptions and conclusions which perhaps make sense to you are wrong and do not apply in all cases. Posting incorrect information here does not help those who come here seeking to learn more about the available options. Like you said, your choice. 8)

[bbecker1983]

Actually there is such a small difference in the pixel aperature in tvs under 50in that from normal viewing distance, its extremely difficult to the naked eye to tell.

For instance my calculations come up with

47in 1080p = 0.5415mm pixel size
47in 720p = 0.8129mm pixel size

That means 720p on same size screen has 67% of the pixels that a 1080p model has

Now take a 720p vs 1080p and put it on a 96in projections screen here is what you get.

96in 720p = 1.6604mm pixel size
96in 1080p = 1.1069mm pixel size

So tell me, how is it that at 8-12ft avg viewing distance that you can look at and see the difference in pixel the sizes.

Don't fool yourself that just because it has more of something doesn't make it perceivibly better...

:T

[wettou]

Actually there is such a small difference in the pixel aperature in tvs under 50in that from normal viewing distance, its extremely difficult to the naked eye to tell. For instance my calculations come up with: 47in 1080p = 0.5415mm pixel size 47in 720p = 0.8129mm pixel size

That means 720p on same size screen has 67% of the pixels that a 1080p model has. Now take a 720p vs 1080p and put it on a 96in projections screen here is what you get.

96in 720p = 1.6604mm pixel size 96in 1080p = 1.1069mm pixel size

So tell me, how is it that at 8-12ft avg viewing distance that you can look at and see the difference in pixel the sizes. Don't fool yourself that just because it has more of something doesn't make it perceptively better... :T

So how about a 128" screen any difference there?? 8O

[impala454]

I can tell an enormous difference between 1280x1024 and 1600x1200 on my 20" screen at 3 feet. Calculate that one.

[Chris D]

:rofl: Hmmmm....

[Hdale85]

Pretty sure our vision changes quite a bit when within 3 feet. For one thing better focus and more clear. Also when it's a computer its a bit different When watching a video it's much harder to see the differences between resolution unless its a very large difference.

[bbecker1983]

128in 720p = 2.2138mm pixel pitch
128in 1080p = 1.4759mm pixel pitch

Difference = 67% That means you still have 33% increase of pixels but regardless you take the viewing distance for a 128in screen = 21ft avg viewing distance. Tell me, will you see those differences??

As for the PC monitor statement, it depends soley on native resolution and viewing distance. Because theviewing distance is 3ft, its much easier for the human eye to interpret the difference. However, running a native 1600x1200 display at a 1280x1024 signal means that 32% of the pixels will display symetrical information. Look at it like binary, each 0 is an original pixel, each 1 is a symetrical pixel mirrored.

1280x1024 on you display 001001001001001001
vs
native rezolution 000000000000

With PC's gaming is not better or sharper beacuae of a monitor, rather the GPU's ability to process and smoothly render the gaming experience. Don't misinterpret this.