SACD players?

[DavidY]

Not sure if this post belongs here or in the 2 channel forum. Please move as needed.

It seems that a lot of people are considering the JVC XV-D723GD DVD player for it's progressive scan capability. However, I am currently more interested in it's audio capabilities...in particular for playing SACDs and CDs. I am looking for a mid-end player for SACDs and CDs. CD performance must be very good, to a level comparable to $500-$1000 CD players like the Rega Planet. Will the JVC perform up to my requirements?

Thanks for any input.

Dave

[ThomasW]

Well there's no way to tell about this because the 2nd generation SACD players are just beginning to hit the market, and as of yet, no one has done a shoot-out.

Also I'm not a big fan of JVC, because unfortunately their build quality continues to get cheaper and cheaper every year.

What I can tell you is that if you want top notch CD and SACD playback and if you can spend $1500, nothing can touch the Sony SCD-777ES. Now I'm sure that in 6-12 months there will be used units available for $1000. If I were you I'd wait for something like this. NOTHING short of $5000 has the build quality of my 777ES 50+lbs!




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[DavidY]

I think that I am a bit confused with all the new audio formats like SACD, DVD-Audio, etc. After checking with the JVC website, the JVC XV-D723GD plays DVD-Audio, DVD-Video, CDs. No mention of SACDs. Am I right to assume that SACDs and DVD-audio are not interchangeable? Can anyone enlighten me to their differences?

What I am looking for is a component that plays mostly CDs to a high level, almost audiophile standards. However, this has been put on the backburner due to all the new audio formats. In particular, I prefer a warm sounding player like a Rega Planet. However, I would prefer that is more future-proof like DVD-Audio, SACD, etc.

Dave

[ThomasW]

DVD-A and SACD are not compatable formats. It's a VHS/Beta type difference.

Here's link to the Sony site regarding SACD's
http://://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consu...tic/index.html

Currently there are very few mfgr's of SACD machines. Sony and Marantz are the biggest.

SACD players will play "Redbook" CD's, CDR's, SACD's, and generally do a much better job on CD's than regular "high-end" CD only players.

Currently SACD players will not play DVD-A. In a year or so there will be "universal" players that play everything.

The current Sony SACD players have user selectable filtering for Redbook CD playback. You can "taylor" the sound to your liking. SACD players are "future proof" as far as SACD and CD are concerned. Currently they won't however, play DVD-A.

But this may not be a problem because hackers just "cracked" the newest DVD-A watermarking, and I bet that the DVD-A software people will stop production again just like they did when the first DVD-A encription was cracked




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[DavidY]

Here's a link to a review on the JVC XV-D723GD:

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=676

Rats, it's not very good for playing CD's.

Dave

[MichaelW]

SACD players will play "Redbook" CD's, CDR's, SACD's, and generally do a much better job on CD's than regular "high-end" CD only players.

I spent two days home demo'ing the Sony SCD-777ES SACD player ($3500 list) and I found that it did not do a better job of conveying music then my Anthem CD-1 CD player ($1600 list). In fact, I found using the SCD-777ES worse sounding to my ears. Playing SACD discs did sound better, on the SCD-777ES, then CDs but with a limited selection of SACD music available I am not easily swayed to run out and buy the SACD player yet. Sorry but to my ears SACD players are still a lot of hype and if they can't give me emotionally what a really good CD player, with a value output stage, then I don't see value in spending the money. Besides I have enough CDs to warant not jumping ship for a new format with a unknown future regarless of what the SACD fan club tells me.

I suppose in the *right* system, the Sony SCD players *could* do a great job. Always do a home demo before you buy.

[ThomasW]

Michael

Sony has a very low key push for this product. And it's increasing popularity, is a result of consumer demand, not "hype".

My conclusion regarding the 777ES is a result of 40 years of "critical listening". During that time, I've auditioned alot of tube equipment as well.

Your almost singular fixation on the superiority of tubes, begs to question your need to respond to any post that discusses solid state gear. Particularly since the responses have such a decidedly pejorative slant.

So we'll agree to disagree.

Perhaps in the future you could be so kind as to temper your public reaction, and we could then discuss any specifics via email.

Regards
Thomas




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[ThomasW]

David

Yep, that's not exactially a glowing review of the JVC.

The only unit currently available that is close to what you want is the Techincs A-10. It does DVD-A, (very few titles) but not SACD, (approx 200 current titles). You're really in the middle of a changing market, so your ideal product may not yet be available.

The best bet might be to stand pat, and wait to see what pops up in the next few months. All the major players will be jumping on the "universal" player concept. They can't afford to exclude anyone in this competitive of a market.




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[DavidY]

Thanks for your replies, Thomas. It is very much appreciated.

As for the JVC XV-D723GD, I will wait and see for other reviews, hopefully more detailed. I don't believe the reviewer had mentioned anything about the progressive scan output features. It's not a big deal for me, but it may be important to others.

I have waited a year so far to upgrade, so another year won't be too bad for the "right" player.

Dave

[MichaelW]

Thomas,

Maybe using *hyped* was a bit strong. *Highly- praised* maybe would have been the better term here.

I spent two days demo'ing the SCD-777ES SACD player and did do a A/B comparison with another high-end CD only player.

My problem with your response is the statement that the SACD players 'generally do a much better job on CD's than regular "high-end" CD only players'. This is akin to saying that every other redbook CD player will pale in comparison to the Sony SACD player when used as a CD player.

I have spent a considerable amount of time demo'ing CD players in the $800-$6500 price range. Both solid state and those with a tube output stage. There are many fine sounding CD players that do not have a valve output stage. I would not say that any of those are the best, including the highly praised Sony SACD players, for all systems.

Even though I do have a bias towards tubes I do tell people to listen before they buy. Even though that should be a given it is amazing how many buy based on reviews without ever first hearing the gear first hand.

[ThomasW]

Michael

This is akin to saying that every other redbook CD player will pale in comparison to the Sony SACD player when used as a CD player.

That is not what I said.

I prefer you read the words as written. That will avoid any further confusion

SACD players will play "Redbook" CD's, CDR's, SACD's, and generally do a much better job on CD's than regular "high-end" CD only players.

So as I also said, we'll agree to disagree

Regards
Thomas




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Lexman]

It's obvious that the only thing that matters with SACD, is in fact, how it sounds in your system. Michael's experience wasn't so awe inspiring that he wanted to run out and purchase one. I don't think we can fault him for that. He obviously knows what sounds good to his ears and in his system. Which I might add, is a nice one. Nor do I think we should banish him from high end audio because he's not ready to throw away his regular CDs or CD players. Let's face it, these can sound pretty damn good.

Thomas on the other hand, like many other people lately, are singing high praises for SACD both on SACDs and regular CDs. Perhaps this is influenced by either his system, former CD player, and/or his ears. Perhaps it's the opposite, that in fact Michael's heavily tube based gear influenced his opinions more so that he didn't hear the value because it was in fact "masked". I can't say. But again, it's only what each person likes that really matters.

Whether it's worth it to most of us, for the limited software selection, and whether in fact regular CDs sound better on them, I will have to defer on that to people with experience. Personally I cannot run out and buy one right now, so it's a moot point for me.

But I personally think the statement that the 777 "generally sounds better than high end CD players" is to strong, and in fact to "general" to hold real value. If it's not a specific comparison, then it isn't quantifiable even in the gray area of quantum physics.

However, this thread was intended as a positive thread for SACD, and I would like for it to continue as such. Just because one person doesn't like SACD, doesn't mean that many more people will not. Michael's comments would have been more pertinant in a thread asking "SACD, better than CD", or "SACD, how does it compare with CD?"

What I don't want to see happen is a few people firing off on new technology, (myself included), either just because it's new, or because they sence obsolescence of their gear. I like to see us all have open minds. That's not always possible, but please, when someone see's positive in a product, let's try to be objective in our reviews of those products and yes sometimes hold our opinions until they are truly pertinant to information requested in the discussion topic.

Thanks,

Lex