Samsung Dual Player

[George Bellefontaine]

After some delay, Samsung has announced that it is now shipping their new dual Bluray/HD DVD player with an msrp. of $799. When the LG 200 comes out with added features over the 100 model, this will make two dual players available to the consumer. But LG will have to come down in price ( it has been announced at $1099 ) or it will fall flat on its kisser.

The Samsung has gotten a lot of hype at other home theater websites, but their standalone Bluray players were not without problems, that may or may not have been fixed with firmware updates, so I am not going to jump too quickly here. As much as I'd rather not have two standalone players in my rack, they are dropping in price rapidly and it could end up being cheaper going that route with an HDMI switcher. Anyway, we can expect to see comments from owners of the new Samsung any day now.

One way or another, I expect to be joining the hi-def camp early in the new year.

[littlesaint]

Reading through the users manual, this player is pretty impressive. It supports both internal audio decoding (except for DTS-HD MA, firmware update coming) and bitstream audio output with secondary decoders for interactive features. It has an Ethernet port for connectivity. It uses HQV for scaling of DVDs. For $799, that's not bad considering what an XA2 (only HD-DVD with HQV and bitstream audio) and PS3 (only BD player I would consider) would cost. Maybe time to sell my XA2.

Of course it is a Samsung, who has had issues with their DVD players in the past, so I may wait to see some first hand reports.

[Blindamood]

It does look like a promising player, and I even went as far as putting in a pre-order from onecall a while back. However, I eventually decided to wait it out a bit (cancelled the order), to see if they actually deliver on features and quality. I'm still quite happy with my Sony BDP-S1, so I won't suffer while waiting for the reviews to roll in.

[Nolan B]

Reading through the users manual, this player is pretty impressive. It supports both internal audio decoding (except for DTS-HD MA, firmware update coming) and bitstream audio output with secondary decoders for interactive features. It has an Ethernet port for connectivity. It uses HQV for scaling of DVDs. For $799, that's not bad considering what an XA2 (only HD-DVD with HQV and bitstream audio) and PS3 (only BD player I would consider) would cost. Maybe time to sell my XA2.

Of course it is a Samsung, who has had issues with their DVD players in the past, so I may wait to see some first hand reports.

my only concernw with how the manual reads is when it comes to Dolby TrueHD. It says something like "only decodes in 2 channel". Likely its refering to how it would output as analogs, but it is only written as saying that and does not say it will decode the and send 5.1 via HDMI as PCM.

my only other gripe is it wont play DVD Audio.

[Chris D]

Huh... does it do SACD, though?

[Nolan B]

Huh... does it do SACD, though?

nope

[Chris D]

Well, since my PS3 streams SACD, if I can find a player that does DVD-A in addition to one (or more) of the new formats, I could eliminate my previous universal player.

I'd be reluctant to do that, though, because it's such a great universal player.

[littlesaint]

I don't think you'll see much dvd-a or sacd going forward if at all. The laser is different so there's some technical hurdles to climb, plus licensing considerations. Sony has already started dropping SACD from the new PS3 models and that's their own technology.

[mitch57]

That's unfortunate. That's pretty much all I listen to is high res DVD-A/SACDs. I guess I will have to keep my universal player as well.

I'm also keeping my eye on the new Samsung player to see how it performs. I'm with George on this one and think I will be jumping on the HD band wagon by early 2008 now that I have my FANTASTIC new Integra DTC 9.8 to pass all those new HD formats to so it can process them in the controller instead of the player.

[PewterTA]

If you got the Integra, then WHY would you spend all that extra money for a dual player vs getting two players (for LESS) that are of the same and better quality?!

The only two reasons for the Samsung player is to pass Hi-Res audio through the analog outputs to your Pre/Pro (because it doesn't decode them itself). The other is space requirements, no physical space for two players.

Other than that, to me it's foolish to spend ~$800 for a dual player when you can get the same quality for less...?!

But that's just me.

[Hdale85]

I don't know that any stand alone player has "better" performance then the sammy dual. A lot of them don't have as good of performance. Well I guess more of them have the HQV processor now but not really the cheaper units. Cheapest BD player in stores is a PS3 for 399. Then a HD-DVD player with HQV is 3-400 so not saving THAT much. Not to mention its much nicer to have a single player rather then 2.

[littlesaint]

If you got the Integra, then WHY would you spend all that extra money for a dual player vs getting two players (for LESS) that are of the same and better quality?!

The only two reasons for the Samsung player is to pass Hi-Res audio through the analog outputs to your Pre/Pro (because it doesn't decode them itself). The other is space requirements, no physical space for two players.

Other than that, to me it's foolish to spend ~$800 for a dual player when you can get the same quality for less...?!

But that's just me.

There are limitations to passing the HD codecs as undecoded bitstream. If you want the total package you need in-player decoding. If the player can support internal decoding of HD codecs without downmixing to DD or DTS, all the better.

[Nolan B]

I don't think you'll see much dvd-a or sacd going forward if at all. The laser is different so there's some technical hurdles to climb, plus licensing considerations. Sony has already started dropping SACD from the new PS3 models and that's their own technology.

actually i dont think this is true. As I understand it all HD DVD players have the ability to decode DVD Audio they just arent set up to.

I know for DVD A and HD DVD its an easy adition.

[Nolan B]

There are limitations to passing the HD codecs as undecoded bitstream. If you want the total package you need in-player decoding. If the player can support internal decoding of HD codecs without downmixing to DD or DTS, all the better.

You are right. There is in proof (at this point anyway) that any benefit comes from decoding in the processor/reciver vs the player.

[littlesaint]

actually i dont think this is true. As I understand it all HD DVD players have the ability to decode DVD Audio they just arent set up to.

I know for DVD A and HD DVD its an easy adition.

They decode TreuHD which is based on MLP which DVD-A also uses for compression, but there's much more to DVD-A than just the compression method, so it's not that simple.

[DrJRapp]

There are limitations to passing the HD codecs as undecoded bitstream. If you want the total package you need in-player decoding. If the player can support internal decoding of HD codecs without downmixing to DD or DTS, all the better.

I'm curious to what you think those limitations are, (other than lack of program material). With the right pre-pro or receiver (HDMI 1.3) there should be none since most pre-pros have far more processing power that a stand alone player.

I know that with my Integra 9.8 and the Samsung 1400 I have no limitations/issues. I just ordered an A35 to replace my XA1 to get the hi-rez audio.

Mitch.....Samsung 1400 with 7 free movies from BB is $299 and the A35 is $345 from Amazon with 10 free movies....and you'll love the LFE from DTS HDMA once you get your PB Ultra......if you haven't already.

[mitch57]

and you'll love the LFE from DTS HDMA once you get your PB Ultra......if you haven't already.

PB Ultra? I'm not getting a PB Ultra. I have plenty of bass right now with two Def Tech BP7002s and a CLR 2500. Any more bass and I might wind up blowing out my living room windows!

[PewterTA]

Sammy 1400 is $279.99 (free S/H) and A35 is $338 from Amazon.

So that's a grand total of $617.99 vs $800.

To me, that's a lot of extra cash for movies and what not...

Plus as DrJ said, get a Pre/Pro that decodes the newest codecs and there should be NO limitations (except for what your Pre/Pro can or can't do).

And like the DD/DTS decoding by the player or Pre/Pro, most Pre/Pro's DACs were of a much better quality and sounded much better than the ones built in with the player. The same will be true for the new players out there.

Someone can send me a PB-Ultra if they want!!!! :

[littlesaint]

I'm curious to what you think those limitations are, (other than lack of program material). With the right pre-pro or receiver (HDMI 1.3) there should be none since most pre-pros have far more processing power that a stand alone player.

I know that with my Integra 9.8 and the Samsung 1400 I have no limitations/issues. I just ordered an A35 to replace my XA1 to get the hi-rez audio.

Mitch.....Samsung 1400 with 7 free movies from BB is $299 and the A35 is $345 from Amazon with 10 free movies....and you'll love the LFE from DTS HDMA once you get your PB Ultra......if you haven't already.

It's not an issue of processing power. Decoding HD codecs is not complex. It's just decompressing a file. The limitation is with the utilization of secondary audio streams for PiP and other interactive media. With bitstream audio, the only way to utilize a secondary audio stream, if at all, is to decode internally, mix in the secondary stream and then re-encode as DTS or DD, resulting in the complete loss of HD audio. With internal decoding there's no need to re-encode in a lossy format, just output the raw PCM after mixing. Some players do not even support secondary audio when using bitstream. You're simply SOL or you have to switch to PCM output.

[Nolan B]

Sammy 1400 is $279.99 (free S/H) and A35 is $338 from Amazon.

So that's a grand total of $617.99 vs $800.

To me, that's a lot of extra cash for movies and what not...

Plus as DrJ said, get a Pre/Pro that decodes the newest codecs and there should be NO limitations (except for what your Pre/Pro can or can't do).

And like the DD/DTS decoding by the player or Pre/Pro, most Pre/Pro's DACs were of a much better quality and sounded much better than the ones built in with the player. The same will be true for the new players out there.

:

true, but assuming your pro has at least HDMI 1.1 which many now do the DAC ultimately gets used in the pro anyway.

Has anyone been able to test decoding in the player vs in the pro/reciever when using HDMI in both cases? If so could you hear a difference?

[littlesaint]

true, but assuming your pro has at least HDMI 1.1 which many now do the DAC ultimately gets used in the pro anyway.

Has anyone been able to test decoding in the player vs in the pro/reciever when using HDMI in both cases? If so could you hear a difference?

All things being equal, I find bitstream to be slightly louder than PCM. One thing to remember is that lossless decoding should sound the same once levels are normalized. If it does not, something is coloring the audio or misapplying post-processing. There's no better with lossless decoding, it's either right or it's nothing.

[Chris D]

Some people have reported getting "better" results with HBR native streaming, although yes, theoretically there should be no difference. I've just set it up as well, and I haven't used it enough yet to give a definitive answer. But for some reason, I seem to be "hearing" more clarity out of the HBR streaming as well!

[DrJRapp]

PB Ultra? I'm not getting a PB Ultra. I have plenty of bass right now with two Def Tech BP7002s and a CLR 2500. Any more bass and I might wind up blowing out my living room windows!

Sorry Mitch...confused you with another friend up in your neck of the woods.

[mitch57]

Sorry Mitch...confused you with another friend up in your neck of the woods.

No problem Jerry. Your points are still valid and I am still on the edge. Rack space is a big concern right now. Additionally, I'm thinking about getting the Oppo 980 which would give me five different devices that play CDs and DVDs. That's getting a bit ridiculous when today's technology could support one player that plays them all.

[Blindamood]

Apparently this player is now shipping. Others (on another popular forum) have actually received the unit! Can't wait to hear the stream of reviews that will be coming soon.

[George Bellefontaine]

Can't wait to hear the stream of reviews that will be coming soon.

Same here. In fact I will old off until I'm satisfied that there are no major problems with the player.

Addition:

I have been checking out owner's thread at another forum on the new Sammy dual and there does indeed seem to be a host of problems. Some who were waiting on backorder have cancelled. I don't know. Perhaps it's too soon, but I do find myself leaning toward two standalone players.