Need setup tips for dual subs

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  • DavidY
    Member
    • Aug 2000
    • 67

    Need setup tips for dual subs

    A month ago, I had purchased a pair of Mission 700AS subs. Due to room constraints, I have to place the subs in one location, front left corner about 2-3 feet from both walls. From time to time, I can localize the subs. My current Sony 777ES receiver/sub setup: Paradigm Reference speakers set to small (with various xover settings -- 50Hz for mains, 60 rears, and 70 centre), sub crossover is set as high as possible, sub is calibrated +3dB over the rest of the speakers.

    Right now, the subs are side by side. Should I stack them to see if they sound better. Are there any other tips to improve my setup? I am thinking about adjusting the sub to +10dB over the rest of the speakers.

    Thanks for any help.

    Dave
  • Lexman
    Super Senior Member
    • Jun 2000
    • 1777

    #2
    Dave, I like to feel like I get hit in the face with my bass. Doesn't matter if I can isolate it or not, I still want that sensation of having my front side pressed right up agains the sub.

    First to the isolation issue. The only way you can possibly seamlessly integrate a subwoofer in your system is to crossover below the point where the bass is localized. I say this because it's typically the higher octaves, (60 Hz and above maybe), that is most noticable.

    To overcome this, you definitely need full range speakers, and you need excellent crossover capabilities to maximize the output of your mains. That's where you will get your most seamless bass, obviously. So, it is my opinion, that anyone that runs satellite mains, runs the eminent risk of being able to localize his/her subwoofers.

    Personally, my Velex subs, c pic:
    (http://www.htguide.com/lexman/default.htm) give me tremendous bass impact, but become less localizable when I run my mains full range. Unfortunately, as two way mains(though good ones), with insufficient beef on the low end, my Sf speakers just can't be driven hard down low with my 250 watt amp. So, for high SPL theater, I have to cross over at closer to 80.

    Even before this, I stacked my subs upon the recommendation of a few people, and achieved excellent results stacking an MK MX125 on top of a Klipsch KSW-200. Prior to that, I had mine spread out, running one on the rear channel. But with 10" mains, I don't really need subwoofer support on the rear channel.

    In short, they say concentrate your output, and corner load it for best results. For me, corner loading is just not an option, so I choose just inside my right speaker, which puts the bass inside the music, and just to the left if the right channel. That's as good as I can do with my location. But if I had the room, I would try one sub to each side just inside the speakers. I might sacrifice a dB or 2, but I think the cohesiveness with the music would be nice.

    Goodluck,

    Lex

    Comment

    • ThomasW
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 10934

      #3
      Localizing subs is deceiving. Any sub regardless of XO point, is a sound pressure source, and will be perceived as such by the ear. This is especially true if the sub location is asymmetrical to the main speakers. The only placement for total integration is centered between the mains. This placement however can cause other issues, including increased room nulls and lowered bass output.

      Stacked subs should work better than side by side placement. The arrival time to the ears will be the same when the cabinets are stacked, vs side by side placement. They should also load better into the corner resulting in greater output.

      Try not to get too fixated on "calibrated" levels. Trust your ears. Listen to a variety of source material. Compare the "balance" of the tonality in things like human voice, piano, etc. Excessively loud subs will make the tonal balance "chesty". While to low an output will make the sound "thin".

      Try setting your mains speakers to "large" and see what happens.




      theAudioWorx
      Klone-Audio

      IB subwoofer FAQ page


      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

      Comment

      • MRWILLL
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2000
        • 107

        #4
        IMHO, there's nothing better than Lexicon's 7.1 Bass Enhance. My front/side/rear spks play down to 40Hz and below. The center is crossed over at 120Hz from Lexicon for BE. I have two Velodyne subs, one right in front of my left front spk (along the wall) turned in at a 15 degree angle. The other sub is for my rear fill in angled straight across (back up against the wall) the room in back of my couch between my right rear spk.

        My bass and LF is like a tidle wave hovering over my viewing/listening room. Real powerful.




        STOP!!...LOOK!!...LISTEN!!
        DVD...Hear it from the people who
        mixed and mastered it "LEXICON".
        STOP!!...LOOK!!...LISTEN!!
        DVD...Hear it from the people who
        mixed and mastered it "LEXICON".

        Comment

        • DavidY
          Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 67

          #5
          Thanks for the advice, guys.

          So far I have stacked the subs and upped the sub to +10dB. After playing a couple of DVD's, I find that there is kinda a null or a dip right in front of the centre speaker. So I will keep on experimenting to see what works the best.

          Dave

          Comment

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