Hmm, RIAA sues without proof?

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  • Kevin D
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Oct 2002
    • 4601

    Hmm, RIAA sues without proof?

    Interesting outcome of the lawsuit and it's getting better.



    RIAA must turn over attorney billing records to Oklahoma mother
    Humphrey Cheung
    March 16, 2007 15:18


    Culver City (CA) - RIAA's legal team is spiraling into disaster as a judge has ruled that an Oklahoma mother is entitled to get billing records and timesheets from the RIAA. Debbie Foster wants the records to help her calculate how much the RIAA has spent in attorneys fees after their failed attempt to sue Foster. The judge has ruled that the RIAA has until March 26th to cough up the documents.

    In 2004, Debbie Foster was sued by the RIAA for allegedly illegally downloading pirated songs from peer to peer networks. Foster argued that she had nothing to do with the downloads, but the RIAA persisted and eventually added Debbie's daughter, Amanda, to the lawsuit.


    Usually most people settle with the RIAA for a few thousand dollars, but Debbie took the case to court and asked for the RIAA to produce records of what files she supposedly downloaded, along with the dates of the downloads. The RIAA couldn't produce the records and offered to withdraw the case.

    Now here is where it gets interesting, Debbie asked to be awarded reasonable attorneys fees for her ordeal and submitted her expenses to the court. The RIAA argued that the mother was asking for too much, to which the judge basically said, "Well if you think her fees are too much, show me yours."

    Presumably any records that are submitted will become public record, something the RIAA would probably not want to have happen. If their legal costs per case are very low, then it shows that the organization isn't doing much research before it sues. But if the costs are high, then it could persuade the judge to award Debbie with a much larger sum for her troubles.
  • Paul H
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2004
    • 904

    #2
    That's a good 'they get what they deserve' story. :T

    Now how did this ever make the courts with no evidence whatsoever?

    Comment

    • Alaric
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 4143

      #3
      Sounds like Debbie's karma just ran over the RIAA's dogma. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. :banana: :^x :dancenana:
      Lee

      Marantz PM7200-RIP
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      Schiit Modi 3
      Marantz CD5005
      Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

      Comment

      • whoaru99
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2004
        • 638

        #4
        Originally posted by Paul H
        That's a good 'they get what they deserve' story. :T

        Now how did this ever make the courts with no evidence whatsoever?

        I'm not entirely certain there needs to be any evidence to bring one to court.

        Winning the case is another matter entirely different - but sometimes I question the relevance of evidence in that too.
        There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

        ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

        Comment

        • PewterTA
          Moderator
          • Nov 2004
          • 2901

          #5
          Can we, as a uniformed society, start suing the RIAA and Record Companies for putting out the "crap" that it's put out?!!?

          I seriously don't think the "digital music revolution" is causing the record companies to loose money, it's the fact that what they are putting out...just isn't THAT GOOD...

          So I think the RIAA needs to get off it's high horse and stop attacking the hand that feeds...after all, we are all consumers and without us, there's really no music industry....
          Digital Audio makes me Happy.
          -Dan

          Comment

          • Burke Strickland
            Moderator
            • Sep 2001
            • 3161

            #6
            I'm not entirely certain there needs to be any evidence to bring one to court.
            Isn't that what's called a "frivolous lawsuit"? According to Wikipedia,
            Frivolous litigation is a legal claim or defense presented even though the party and the party's legal counsel had reason to know that the claim or defense had no merit. A claim or defense may be frivolous because it had no underlying justification in fact, or because it was not presented with an argument for a reasonable extension or reinterpretation of the law.

            In the United States, Federal Rule 11 and similar state rules require that an attorney perform a due diligence investigation concerning the factual basis for any claim ...
            I don't see how RIAA kept getting away with "fishing expedition" lawsuits -- they're supposed to have evidence that they were "wronged" BEFORE they take up valuable court time. Maybe this case will put a stop to their bullying tactics and help them focus attention on the real causes of the decline in packaged music sales.

            Burke

            What you DON'T say may be held against you...

            Comment

            • whoaru99
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2004
              • 638

              #7
              Originally posted by Burke Strickland
              Isn't that what's called a "frivolous lawsuit"? According to Wikipedia,
              I don't see how RIAA kept getting away with "fishing expedition" lawsuits -- they're supposed to have evidence that they were "wronged" BEFORE they take up valuable court time. Maybe this case will put a stop to their bullying tactics and help them focus attention on the real causes of the decline in packaged music sales.

              Burke
              By definition, yes, it would be a frivolous lawsuit to bring a case with no merit. However, it's up to the lawyers to determine the merits of the case. If there is even the slightest possible merit, I think the frivolous lawsuit aspect is no longer valid.
              There are some things which are impossible to know, but it is impossible to know which things these are. :scratchhead:

              ----JAFFE'S PRECEPT

              Comment

              • Alaric
                Ultra Senior Member
                • Jan 2006
                • 4143

                #8
                It is supposed to be up to the presiding judge to decide the merits of a civil action. (In the U.S.) Unfortunately , too many judges are more concerned with their political futures than justice. Same problem in criminal court.
                Lee

                Marantz PM7200-RIP
                Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                Schiit Modi 3
                Marantz CD5005
                Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                Comment

                • cobbpa
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2005
                  • 456

                  #9
                  Originally posted by PewterTA
                  I seriously don't think the "digital music revolution" is causing the record companies to loose money, it's the fact that what they are putting out...just isn't THAT GOOD...

                  So I think the RIAA needs to get off it's high horse and stop attacking the hand that feeds...after all, we are all consumers and without us, there's really no music industry....
                  Interestingly, we had a discussion in an econ class a few weeks ago about the recording industry. Basically, it seems that its power comes from distribution--onto the radio, into stores, etc. The digital revolution does hurt some, because the industry has lost power over distibution. I.e., we can listen to anything we want online and the companies don't always get money for it..but that isn't too bad, considering that with legal download options there are actually more sources of profits now.

                  What's really bogus is that some of the companies actually saw profits increase while they were accusing customers of hurting their business..soo ridiculous. It's good to see some backlash and possible negative consequences for being this greedy.

                  Comment

                  • ThomasW
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10933

                    #10


                    ........

                    IB subwoofer FAQ page


                    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                    Comment

                    • cobbpa
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2005
                      • 456

                      #11
                      That pic didn't show up for me thomas, but i traced it down...pretty funny. Reminded me that my freshman year of school we were stopped from downloading anything peer to peer. Apparently the university got a letter that hundreds of students were being tracked and the University was going to be held responsible. "Send blanket subpoena to university and hope they cave." Ha.

                      Comment

                      • Kevin P
                        Member
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 10808

                        #12
                        Here's Thomas's pic... stupid website must block links from other sites...



                        So true, so true...
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                        • ThomasW
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 10933

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Kevin P
                          Here's Thomas's pic... stupid website must block links from other sites...
                          Weird since it showed up when I previewed the post..... :roll:

                          IB subwoofer FAQ page


                          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                          Comment

                          • Kevin P
                            Member
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 10808

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ThomasW
                            Weird since it showed up when I previewed the post..... :roll:
                            That's because your browser already had the image cached. Or you're running a firewall or proxy that blocks the referrer header.

                            Comment

                            • Chris D
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Dec 2000
                              • 16877

                              #15
                              Heheeee... that's funny.
                              CHRIS

                              Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                              - Pleasantville

                              Comment

                              • Eric S
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2000
                                • 175

                                #16
                                Has anyone seen the RIAA Settlement Webpage?

                                I came across the RIAA Lawsuit Settlement Page a while ago and found it to be highly interesting. When you get there, click on the "settle a case online" link. It takes you to a 4 step process: 1) type in your case ID, 2) read the generic "you've been a bad boy/girl" page, 3) type in your credit card number, and 4) get your receipt.

                                Is is just me, or does this page seem "strange"? It looks more like blackmail and extortion than anything else. Here are some generic charges, and the bill. Pay up or well really screw you...

                                Eric
                                My DIY Theater Projects

                                Comment

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