LPs vs CDs

[DrJRapp]

I have a handful of friends that are making a retro journey back to vinyl as a source medium. As an engineer who understands the technical limitations of that medium I see the limitations such as dynamic range, limited frequency response and much higher noise floor, not to mention the clicks and pops keeping me from making the big leap backwards.

At least one of my friends, who is a vinyl affectionado believes that spending tons of $$ on a modern day turntable, cartridge, and associated equipment will overcome the limitations of the medium. I say, bull....there is no way to turn a duck into a swan, no matter how many $$ you throw at it.

I claim that the renewed interest in vinyl is just an indication of the industry's desire to move forward, no new medium to focus on, lack of satisfaction with SACD and DVDA, and desire on the part of manufacturers to find another revenu stream.

I'm curious for the input of people here. What are your thoughts.

[Rael]

Well, considering the modern CD mastering techniques being employed by so many artists, it's no wonder so many are going back to vinyl. That certainly is true for myself. I cannot listen to most CDs for long periods without experiencing fatigue. This isn't my imagination btw, there have been several articles on the subject on listener fatigue, the loss of dynamic range due to heavy compression and so on.

There are exceptions of course, but by and large if I can find something on vinyl, I'll opt for that before CD. I'm almost strictly a rock music guy so I don't know if these kinds of things hold true for listeners of jazz and classical.

Oh and listen to your friend when he tells you a higher quality turntable will produce better results. I wouldn't have believed it either until I heard exactly what a great turntable can do. A great cartridge that tracks properly and a proper vinyl setup will usually result in a much lower noise floor and even fewer ticks and pops.

At the end of the day, I'm definitely a big vinyl fan. I love the whole process of cleaning the record, studying the jacket, getting my arse off the chair to turn the record over, collecting various pressings and so forth. It doesn't matter to me what the "experts" say about inherent weaknesses in the medium, I let my ears do the listening. I can listen to records all night without distraction. CDs are great for the car and that's about it. Imo, of course!!

[Andrew M Ward]

Vinyl is about fun...

For me it's about the fun of it...

I enjoy the sound quality of vinyl on many levels; I simply regard it as a different sound than CD.

Sure it can't reproduce anything above 12K or below 40 Hz (consider that a characteristic) not a limitation. A good clean record on a nice rig can sound amazing...

It's worth experimenting with fir sure

I do not subscribe to the “vinyl kicks CD’s ass” party line, but it has a naturalness and smoothness that CD cannot match, for all that it lacks, it gives back in other ways.

For me:
Vinyl is the reason I got into hi-end in the first place, I cannot disregard its power and those that do are missing something...


8)

[DrJRapp]

I'd be interested to heaar what you two gentlemen use for TT, cartridges, etc....and why? Anyone else...chime in!

[George Bellefontaine]

I grew up with vinyl so maybe I am a little biased toward that media, but to my ears anyway, vinyl is warm, like the caress of a loving woman, and cd is like a slap from a cold bitch.

I have owned a Technics direct drive SL 1500 turntable with a Shure M95ED cartridge for more years than I can remember.

[Rael]

vinyl is warm, like the caress of a loving woman, and cd is like a slap from a cold bitch.

.

:rofl: Thanks for that!

[dyazdani]

I like vinyl because of the visible moving parts and "cool" factor. I don't currently have a rig (sold my Basis and VPI rigs), but plan to get one again someday.

As far a sound quality, I've compared high end 'tables with high end CDps with the same recording and on the same system. I found it very difficult to distinguish a "winner." There was a very slight difference, but neither was superior to the other in any significant way.

[mattburk]

Every comparable high end priced a/b review that I have read, puts vinyl in the lead.

[joetama]

I have always wanted to get into vinal. What is a good entry level setup to get?

[DrJRapp]

I have always wanted to get into vinal. What is a good entry level setup to get?

What's your budget? You and I may define entry level differently.

I don't know for sure myself, at least not that I could recommend anything. that's part of the reason I started this thread, hoping others would jump in.

I'm going to seek some help.....be back

[gianni]

Well, considering the modern CD mastering techniques being employed by so many artists, it's no wonder so many are going back to vinyl. That certainly is true for myself. I cannot listen to most CDs for long periods without experiencing fatigue. This isn't my imagination btw, there have been several articles on the subject on listener fatigue, the loss of dynamic range due to heavy compression and so on.

Bingo Rael!
I agree 100%. Even considering the format's limitations, it can be listenable. But modern techniques, or shall I say poor practices, bring out the worst in the format. There are some labels mostly smaller ones which do a good job, but for the most part most contemporary CD's are dreadful.

[David Meek]

I have always wanted to get into vinal. What is a good entry level setup to get?

We had a thread going on turntables that touched on this a while back. I'll see if I can find it. . . .

Here it is.

[joetama]

What's your budget? You and I may define entry level differently.

I don't know for sure myself, at least not that I could recommend anything. that's part of the reason I started this thread, hoping others would jump in.

I'm going to seek some help.....be back

$1000-$1500 maybe.... Don't know what that would get me because I never really have looked into the Vinal section at my local shops lol.....

[DrJRapp]

I think that's just where you need to be, considering the rest of your gear. That budget should buy you a good (better than entry level) TT with cartridge, decent preamp, (the 1098 doesn't have a low level phono stage if I remember correctly...check and see...it's been awhile since I got rid of mine), and, last but not least the all important record cleaner.

I'm no expert, but based on my reading so far, that's all you should need. Oh....forgot one thing....records....lol

[Andrew M Ward]

I'd be interested to heaar what you two gentlemen use for TT, cartridges, etc....and why? Anyone else...chime in!

right here is everything you need to know to get started

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/project/idx_home.htm

in my opinion 8)

(Word of warning, it's a fun hobby and lots of cool stuff is available to make it happen with your own style) that may or may not be a good thing?

[fauzigarib]

Yeah Baby!!!

... Now here's a turntable!!! Check this bad boy out!

http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/clearaudio/reference.html

I've been a BIG fan of Clearaudio, especially the Champion series... Unfortunately haven't had the chance to buy one yet.. Still living with my aaaancient Pioneer TT with Shure Cartridge.

Regarding TT vs. CD, analog vs. digital, XYZ vs. ABC... it's all relative. I agreed with DrJRapp about analysis of going retro to be cool, etc... Until I heard a nice analog rig! Dude, I absolutely adore music, and LOVE my cd's... but this was the first time in my life that I could use the word "glorious" the describe music coming out of a system.

Even on my system with a really crap TT, I sometimes prefer to plug that in over my cdp.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Fauzi

[DrJRapp]

(Word of warning, it's a fun hobby and lots of cool stuff is available to make it happen with your own style) that may or may not be a good thing?

I thought that's what this was all about?...

[Andrew M Ward]

The "Perspective" is my personal favorite for a balance between cool factor - performance and cost... it's a rare balance of all three.

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/project/products/perspective.htm

If you don't have a Hi-End Audio shop near by (Which would be a shame) you can get LP Accessories here: http://www.lpgear.com/

Ahhhh... 8)

Enjoy

[DrJRapp]

The perspective did catch my eye.... it is very attractive.

I think that the biggest guidance that begginers need is in the area of phono cartridges. I can't find anything that tells me very much what the various cartridges sound like. My last cartridge before I retired from vinyl about 20 years ago was a Shure V15 Type II with an elliptical stylus. I don't even remember what THAT sounded like.

I noticed that various TTs come packaged with pre-mounted cartriges. The Music Hall's come to mind. This is very convenient for most of us, or is it just that the manufacturers are offing their dogs on us in the name of convienience?

[gostan]

The cartridges that are prepackaged with the turntables are not necessarily junk. They are usually price-point oriented in order to allow a reasonably priced phono preamplifier to be mated with turntable, tonearm and cartridge.

Most are either Moving Magnet (MM) or high output Moving Coil (MC) cartridges. Generally IMO, , MM cartridges produce a warmer mellower sound which is not as transparent or detailed as the MC cartidges. Most MM cartridges or high output MC cartridges have a high voltage output, thus, negating the extra cost of a step up transformer within the phono preamp which is required to run a low output MC cartridge.

My initial cartridge was a pre-packaged high output MC Dynavector cartridge which allowed me to use a lower priced phono preamp. The sound was decent, but the imaging and tonality of a low output MC cartridge, for me, is superior to either a MM or high output MC cartridge. The downside was that when I have moved on to a low output Benz MC cartridge which has necessitated a budget breaking search for a more expensive phono cartridge capable of running a 0.25 mV cartridge.

Overall, if you want to jump into the world of vinyl, you will likely need to consider budgeting about 50% of your total purchase for a turntable and tonearm and 50% for a phono preamplifier and cartridge.

The pre-packaged deals are a great economic way to get back into vinyl without breaking the bank. You can always change the cartridge and phono preamplifier down the road, just as we all do with amplifiers and the like.

My analog setup consists of the following:

AR ETL-1 Turntable with Merrill/SoundofTheWood modifications
Sumiko Premier FT-3 Tonearm
Benz Micro-Glider Low Output Cartridge
Musical Fidelity X-LPS v. 3 Phono Preamplifier
Demoing a Linn Linto phono preamplifier

[Vince Helm]

Vinyl - if you do a nice job of selecting your equipment and all the tweats needed... it is a big pain in the back side. Having said that, you have not listened to music until you listen via vinyl. When ever I travel out of town I make it a point to seek out hifi shops with good vinyl equipment and listen, even if for only one song from an artist I do not care to buy on cd. It just sound right. Please know that I do not own any vinyl or the needed equipment and I am not sure if I ever will, but I wish I did and I wish I could! If you love to listen to music... buy a nice set-up and enjoy!

Vince

[DrJRapp]

Unfortunatly here in South Florida there are very few high end audio dealers as there would be in other parts of the country such as Boston or New York or Las Vegas. Most high end is dealt through mostly custom installers. Nobody, as far as I know is demoing any vinyl equipment or related accesories in my area so..... I've got to rely on what's being said here on these forums, pay my money and take my chances.

[Brandon B]

Just nabbed a MMF-5 for $300 off eBay myself. Haven't had a turntable hooked up for maybe a decade now, but still have my old albums. Be interesting to compare.

BB

[Vince Helm]

I've got to rely on what's being said here on these forums, pay my money and take my chances.

Call Music Direct (big vinyl dealer) at 312-433-0200. Talk to them, they sell all the good stuff and more! They have a very good 30 day no risk try.

Good hunting
Vince

[wkhanna]

right here is everything you need to know to get started

I’m familiar with the RM-10. I think it sounds very good.

It was 30 and some odd years ago when I first heard a HiFi audio system. Linn TT, Transcripture tone arm, Mac tube mono amps, Dahlquist speakers, etc. That was at the shop where I bought my Advent system. It wasn’t till 1994 when I heard anything better. This time I had the opportunity to compare CD to vinyl on the same system. This was a very good system for the time, and I was floored by the SQ of the vinyl vs. CD.

I think much of had to do with fact that in every other instance, any vinyl playback I had ever heard was on rather limited quality components with LP’s that may have led less than pampered lives. And not too many people knew how to set tone arm weight,etc, and were using cartridges with needles that had played more that one too many records.

My point is (I think I have a point?) once you have heard vinyl on a proper system that is properly set up and maintained, with vinyl that is properly cared for, you may be surprised how absolutely wonderful it truly is. Especially when compared to CD.

[Andrew M Ward]

I think that the biggest guidance that begginers need is in the area of phono cartridges.

Doc!
You know I love your posts... But are you just lobbing me softballs on this one to make me feel good?

Okay, the "perspective" table is actually awesome (you've drawn me out, I'll say it) it's without even a close second place the best deal on the market (Period)

as for cartridges!!!!!
Okay buy like 4 or 5 $30 to $50 dollar units (seriously) this is part of the religion and part of the indoctrination... (Next goal) listen to albums you know (order some albums you already love, it's easy) then slap on any of your 4 or 5 new cartridges, just pick one... and listen, relax get a bottle of wine (you know the drill)

Then after a week has passed of listening (and it will be wonderful) even at $40 dollars a cartridge… Drop on a new cartridge from your handy stock of “freshies”

Ahh... oh yeas, all new subtleties will be revealed and some even masked, it will be like “snap” wow this is different… what happened?

Then discern, calculate, ponder... Listen..

By this time (if you’re anything like me) you’re hopelessly addicted to the differences (between cartridges) the soft gentle beauty of vinyl and the easy process of discovery and transformation.

What a modern Turntable rig “such as the Perspective” offers us is masterful.

A) It’s fun
B) It’s easy
C) It’s fairly affordable
D) It’s endlessly interchangeable (cartridges) for cheap
E) It’s engaging
F) It sounds pretty damn good!!!

If you lose sight of the steps please re-read from the top

[Andrew M Ward]

I’m familiar with the RM-10. I think it sounds very good.

It was 30 and some odd years ago when I first heard a HiFi audio system. Linn TT, Transcripture tone arm, Mac tube mono amps, Dahlquist speakers, etc. That was at the shop where I bought my Advent system. It wasn’t till 1994 when I heard anything better. This time I had the opportunity to compare CD to vinyl on the same system. This was a very good system for the time, and I was floored by the SQ of the vinyl vs. CD.

I think much of had to do with fact that in every other instance, any vinyl playback I had ever heard was on rather limited quality components with LP’s that may have led less than pampered lives. And not too many people knew how to set tone arm weight,etc, and were using cartridges with needles that had played more that one too many records.

My point is (I think I have a point?) once you have heard vinyl on a proper system that is properly set up and maintained, with vinyl that is properly cared for, you may be surprised how absolutely wonderful it truly is. Especially when compared to CD.

Hey!
Did I mention "we're on the same page"

Dude, it's like looking in the mirror.... 8)

[DrJRapp]

Unless a lot has changed from around 1982, it's going to take a lot of convincing.

I started at the very early age of 12 when I became an "early adopter" of a brand spankin new multi channel format called.....stereo. I had heard one at a 16 yo friend's house and was obsessed with the quality of what I was hearing vs the mono record player that my parents had inside a large Westinghouse console TV. I worked and saved and was able to convince my Dad to take me to Downtown Newark, NJ to Lafayette Radio on Central Avenue where I purchased my first Stereo integrated amp for $45. It was a 15 wpc tube job by Harman Kardan, a company I had never heard of but was to soon grow to know and love. We added a couple of full range "wizzer cone" speakers and enclosures for $18 bucks. My Dad loaned me some $$ so I could buy a Garrard record changer with included grado cartridge, which I think in those days was pizeolectric crystal and had a saphire stylus and a tracking force of what was then an incredibly light 6 grams. I could go on and on, but to make a long story short, fast forward thru a lot of gear upgrades and I arrive at 1982 owning a Marantz SLT 12 straight line tracking TT with Shure V15 T2 catridge that tracked at about 1/2 a gram on a bad day. At that point I had Infinity Quantum 3s and Harman Kardan Citation separates that I had never heard in their true glory till the day I purchased my Sony CDP 101.

The proof of Audio is in the listening, so I guess I'm just going to have to build myself a 2 channel dedicated system that is oriented towards vinyl.

[DrJRapp]

Doc!
You know I love your posts... But are you just lobbing me softballs on this one to make me feel good?

Then after a week has passed of listening (and it will be wonderful) even at $40 dollars a cartridge… Drop on a new cartridge from your handy stock of “freshies”

Ahh... oh yeas, all new subtleties will be revealed and some even masked, it will be like “snap” wow this is different… what happened?

Then discern, calculate, ponder... Listen..

By this time (if you’re anything like me) you’re hopelessly addicted to the differences (between cartridges) the soft gentle beauty of vinyl and the easy process of discovery and transformation.

Yes, does bring me back....used to save my sheckels to buy the latest (but never the greatest) just to be able to do what you've illustrated here.

No, I'm not lobbing softballs...the sheer number of cartridges available today is almost overwhelming. I went to one site where there were 72 different ones available...and that's just one site. At another there were an equal amount...but different ones!!!!

I used to subscribe to various mags such as Stereo Review (I think that's Sterophile nowadays, isn't it?) just to read the cartridge reviews. Where is all that when I really need it?

I like your idea of purchasing several and swapping. That's what I used to do in the "old days". I found I had different records that sounded better with one cartridge over another. But in those days we had interchangeable cartridge shells and it was easy. I'm wondering what it's going to be like trying to attach those tiny wires to the back of a cartridge on a fixed tonearm...with eyes that don't work as well up close as they used to!

[Andrew M Ward]

Unless a lot has changed from around 1982, it's going to take a lot of convincing.

I started at the very early age of 12 when I became an "early adopter" of a brand spankin new multi channel format called.....stereo. I had heard one at a 16 yo friend's house and was obsessed with the quality of what I was hearing vs the mono record player that my parents had inside a large Westinghouse console TV. I worked and saved and was able to convince my Dad to take me to Downtown Newark, NJ to Lafayette Radio on Central Avenue where I purchased my first Stereo integrated amp for $45. It was a 15 wpc tube job by Harman Kardan, a company I had never heard of but was to soon grow to know and love. We added a couple of full range "wizzer cone" speakers and enclosures for $18 bucks. My Dad loaned me some $$ so I could buy a BSR record changer with included grado cartridge, which I think in those days was pizeolectric crystal and had a saphire stylus and a tracking force of what was then an incredibly light 6 grams. I could go on and on, but to make a long story short, fast forward thru a lot of gear upgrades and I arrive at 1982 owning a Marantz SLT 12 straight line tracking TT with Shure V15 T2 catridge that tracked at about 1/2 a gram on a bad day. At that point I had Infinity Quantum 3s and Harman Kardan Citation separates that I had never heard in their true glory till the day I purchased my Sony CDP 101.

The proof of Audio is in the listening, so I guess I'm just going to have to build myself a 2 channel dedicated system that is oriented towards vinyl.

Again!
You magnificent bastard!... So where I'm coming from you've already been.

"sand bagging" is what I call it:
your previous experiences (again) are suitable for your own reasonable vinyl progression (no guidance required)


Some day (Doc!) I’ll get gun shy and hold off, until then “you own me”
~Andrew

[gostan]

The proof of Audio is in the listening, so I guess I'm just going to have to build myself a 2 channel dedicated system that is oriented towards vinyl.

Jerry,
Since you have a wonderful digital end to your existing system, vinyl would be a wonderful change of pace - with just a few caveats:

1. You will get your daily allotment of exercise getting up and down from the couch every 16-18 minutes to flip the records.
2. You will collect bottles of different types of record cleaning fluids.
3. You will have to decide whether to purchase new releases in LP, CD, SACD, DVD-A or some new Hi-Rez codec.
4. Your friends will think that you have gone Back To The Future.
5. Fed Ex will be delivering packages almost daily from Acoustic Sounds, Elusive Disc and Music Direct.

Last and not least, please do not call me telling me that it is my fault that you are tired of listening to pops, crackles and noise and that you are selling your vinyl rig to the highest bidder.

Andrew, I have never been a fan of any of the carbon fiber tonearms. Other than that the Perspective seems like a pretty good set-up. Personally, I have tried a modern turntable, and unless you are going to drop some serious money, a trip back in time with a well preserved AR or Thorens spins my top.

[Andrew M Ward]

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SHE9000

I had an $80 dollar cartridge on my table (and you know what that table was) see first post: and I had guys guessing in the thousands upon thousands as to what the cartridge was….

[DrJRapp]

Stan

It's all you fault, it's aways your fault....lol Eileen and I were going to play a game with you a bit over at the "other forum" naysaying all your well...."retroness" based on good solid technical reasons, of course. Sooner or later I was going to capitulate....by that time I would have my setup in place and as you say "blame it all on you"!

If you remember my system in my study-library, that's what I'm going to morph into a vinyl oriented setup. There's just no room on my rack in the big room for all that paraphenalia. I've planned this for quite awhile (even back before you were down here) as the 2 channel capabilities of my main system improved, the "dedicated" 2 channel system became redundant and unused....so. My Xt4s just sold on Agon, the Nuforce Ref9s have an offer pending and well....I'm keepin the Shanling. For the time beaing I have a 65wpc Cambridge Audio 640A integrated sitting idle in storage, I've got some older Klipsch KG series speakers that will have to do till I find a replacement for the XT4s. I need to go speaker shopping again. Oh, by Monday I should have an MMF 5se (I wanted the non-captive arm wiring) a Cambridge Audio MM/MC preamp and a Spin Doctor III (house brand named manual Nitty Gritty 1).

Everything I've ordered is returnable, so I'm now already questioning the tt purchase (because of the packaged Goldring 1022 cartridge). I wish I had thought more about that second AR you had and sold. I probably should have nailed that one then.

The real fun is going to be going to all those estate sales, Goodwill, etc to find records.

[DrJRapp]

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SHE9000


I had an $80 dollar cartridge on my table (and you know what that table was) see first post: and I had guys guessing in the thousands upon thousands as to what the cartridge was….

Let me guess was it blue?...lol

You've got so much gear...what electronics and speaks do you run the tt on?

[gostan]

Jerry,

The MMF 5SE is about the best TT setup out there to jump back in to vinyl. And it is easily saleable on Agon if you determine after end of return policy that vinyl is not your thing. And Audio Advisor is pretty easy to deal with.

The Goldring cartridge will be fine for now. But, there are certainly other choices/upgrades out there, for not too much $$.

The only issue with changing cartridges and the like is that you need to invest in a stylus force gauge and an alignment tool like the Shure or Acoustech gauges or the Feichert Univeral Protractor Alignment tool.


I suspect that many tonearms and cartridges out there are not aligned properly and, therefore, will not ever sound as good as they could. I opted for the Shure as I applied the $161 that I saved over the Acoustech on some more vinyl.

I can just picture you sitting in your chair at your desk in the study listening to Holly Cole on vinyl. The first side ends and you reach out vocally to Eileen to come flip the record. No, my imagination is definitely going too far. Get up and flip the LP yourself. :lol:

[Andrew M Ward]

Let me guess was it blue?...lol

You've got so much gear...what electronics and speaks do you run the tt on?

Today:
Proceed premp
Proceed Amp
Linn spkrs
you know the TT

[Arneson]

First time I saw and heard a record album was my oldest sisters barbie close and play.
Came with one free LP, and I'll never forget it, over and over again, Bobby V singing Rubber Ball.
I just listened to some of my old collection yesterday, wanted to see if the TT was still up to speed, (Technics with a Shure V15), after being forgotten in the top cabinet for years.
I just have to add that thanx to you guys that "bad album cover" site is now like famous all over the web.LOL

[DrJRapp]

Andrew

Which model Linn speakers? Speakers are going to be the hardest part.

[Andrew M Ward]

Andrew

Which model Linn speakers? Speakers are going to be the hardest part.

Older Linn Stuff
Ninka Pair with Sizmik Sub...
Proceed AVP2+6
Proceed Amp-3

[DrJRapp]

I need to go speaker shopping. The XT4s looked great and sounded good in this room but I'm looking for something more musical.

[Rael]

Older Linn Stuff
Ninka Pair with Sizmik Sub...
Proceed AVP2+6
Proceed Amp-3

Andrew, how do you like the Sizmik paired with the Ninkas? My mains are Linn Ninkas and I've been interested in investing in a sub. I find that the Ninkas sound great but are a little bass shy.

[wkhanna]

Dude, it's like looking in the mirror.... 8)

I, myself, have been concerned about this very fact for a while, now.
Hence, my motive for hiring a PI to investigate these unnatural similarities.
Preliminary findings reveal that it appears we may be twins separated at birth.
It was cheap research lab working on cloning, old vacuum tubes were being used for gestating cells to supplement equipment costs, we got dropped on the floor, swept to the dumpster, found and saved by a used-record store owner, then deposited in the child welfare system, and now we have found each other again!

Hey Bro!, can I come over Thanksgiving dinner?

[alebonau]

I'd be interested to heaar what you two gentlemen use for TT, cartridges, etc....and why? Anyone else...chime in!

hi jerry,

I'm using the ortofon mc10 supreme for stylus on a rega P25 which was a special limited edition release for their 25th year anniversary of making TT. I heard the combination in store and thought it sounded sensational in its solid sound, drive and the way it filled the room with sound with its soundstage.

About the only thing I'd want to try some stage down the track is running a ortofon kontrapunkt B cart on it to see the benefit.

I'm jsut running with the built in phono stage on my musical fidelity A5 2ch pre. I found quite an improvement with using that over the standalone mf phono stage I was using prior to getting the pre.

Getting a TT a few years ago unlocked a time capsule for me giving me ability to play records some of which I hadnt heard in about 30 years or so. Some of the LPs even though 40-50 years old sound suprisingly good. Amazing also here in OZ jsut how avaialble mint quality vinyl is. slowly my own collection is growing...

[DrJRapp]

I had a very interesting time this afternoon. I stopped by a Goodwill Industries outlet store and picked up 22 LPs for the whopping price of $2.13. That's not $2.13 each it was $2.13 for all of them! I figure I may only get a few decent sounding discs out of the lot, but what the heck...for $2.13!!!!!

[gostan]

No old well-preserved Christian Dior three piece suits with some overly wide lapels ???????

Seriously, I never thought of taking a trip to Goodwill for some fine vinyl hunting. I would imagine that Southern Florida might be a goldmine for cheap old vinyl (as long as it has been out of the sun and in an AC environment). What, with the older population and snowbirds and the like.

Myself, I just listened to a pristine copy of Phoebe Snow's long out of print first solo album, purchased for .25 cents at a yard sale two weeks ago. Unfortunately, most of every thing else that I picked through was visibly in extremely poor condition.

Right now, I am listening to a Classic Records 200 gram re-release of Crosby, Stills & Nash. Suite Judy Blue Eyes and Guinnevere sound so more detailed, yet so warm, on this particular vinyl when compared to the cd box set versions.

Jerry, PM or email me with the specifics on your Goodwill finds.