Improving Bass from Subs?

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  • DavidY
    Member
    • Aug 2000
    • 67

    Improving Bass from Subs?

    Just wondering if you can make a sub(s) more boomy so you can feel the bass more?

    IMO, most people have more problems with a sub that is too boomy. Not me! I have a pair of Mission 700AS subs that have good output. It can get very loud, but sometimes I wish that I could feel the bass a bit more. Is that boominess? Can the subs' output be too clean....maybe I need more distortion? One Mission 700ASi sub owner at HTF has complained about not feeling the bass. While I am fairly happy with my purchase, I would like to maximize my enjoyment of bass during action movies. Any tips? My listening room is 10'x20'x8' and my Mission subs are stacked within a couple of feet of a corner. Furthermore, this is the only location for the subs, stacked or side by side.

    Any insight into bass would be much appreciated. Thanks.

    Dave
  • Lexman
    Super Senior Member
    • Jun 2000
    • 1777

    #2
    David, I am no bass expert, but it seems as though your already maximizing your bass with the corner load, and the fact your running 2 subs already, both located in the same area. So, I think it's time to evaluate the output of the subs themselves, and whether they optimize the characteristics that are most important to you. Slam bang is your goal. Right?

    It could be that a sonosub DIY subwoofer is what you need to feel the punch. If you prefer to purchase a new sub, we can discuss that area. But if your pretty well locked into what you currently have, there may be little you can do to change things. Of course, you could try coupling the subs to a wall, so that some of the physical energy they transmit is transmitted through the walls.

    Last question. Have you tried boosting the volume, or any bass enhance(boost) options of your receiver or pre-processor? What is your sub crossover set to, and are you utilizing only the receiver's crossover, or are you using the subs? Both? (not a great idea)

    Let's talk about this some more and see if we can find you a solution.

    Lex





    <A HREF="http://www.catcables.com" <IMG SRC="http://www.htguide.com/lexman/other/sm_logo.gif"

    Comment

    • ThomasW
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 10934

      #3
      David

      There's a difference between "boomy" bass and bass you can "feel". Without getting new subs that have more output, your the only option is to use EQ to enhance bass performance. The parametric EQ built in to your Sony 777ES will allow you to do this.

      I don't know what the range/slope is for the Sony's EQ. But in general if you want to increase the "boom" you simply add bass boost in the 50Hz-80Hz range.

      If you want to increase the tactile bass add EQ below 35Hz.




      theAudioWorx
      Klone-Audio

      IB subwoofer FAQ page


      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

      Comment

      • Andrew Pratt
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 16507

        #4
        hm if you're in vancourver have you seen some of the DIY sono's that were built out your way? Using the eq in your sony should give you the ability to boost some of the upper bass which is the bass you tend to feel at night clubs etc.




        Comment

        • Markj
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 323

          #5
          Clean bass is what you want, boomy bass is bloated were the bass does not blend with the main speakers. Your subs are giving you the clean bass that you should want but are not going low enough to give you the feeling bass. Do you know the frequency response range of your subs? If they only are going down around 35hz you will not get the rumble feeling that you like. A sub needs to go below 35Hz and be loud to feel the bass. If this is the case the only fix is to get subs that go low.

          Comment

          • DavidY
            Member
            • Aug 2000
            • 67

            #6
            Here's more information about the Mission subs and my setup.....

            Mission 700AS is a 10inch vented sub with a 100W amp. It measures 16"x17"x18" and weighs in between 35-40 pounds.

            Tom Nousaine of Sound and Vision (May 2000) has measured the Mission 700AS as follows (all measurements taken from his 7500 cu.ft. room; corner loaded):

            Frequency Response
            Near Field: 36 to 118 Hz +/- 2.4 dB
            Room Response: 27 to 114 Hz +/- 5.7 dB

            Low End Extension (10% distortion): 102 dB at 25 Hz

            Tone Burst Sequence (25-62 Hz, 10% distortion)
            Average SPL: 108.1 dB
            Maximum SPL: 113.2 dB at 62 Hz
            Other SPL: 111.5 dB at 32 Hz

            All speakers set to "small" with xover at 80 Hz (recently, was 50 mains/60 rears/70 centre). Subs have no bypass switch. Originally, I had the subs' xover set to highest settting of 150 Hz. Didn't like it...lowered it down to around 105-110 Hz. Subwoofer set to +4 dB over the rest of the speakers. Receiver is a Sony STR-DA777ES.

            Dave

            Comment

            • Andrew Pratt
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 16507

              #7
              Dave according to TV's post on HTF the other day the mission subs are fairly loud but don't have much grunt down real low (under 25) Granted most DVD's don't have much bass down that deep anyway but if you're looking for more raw power (insert tim allen grunts) then I'd seriously consider going the DIY route. There are quite a few guys near you that have built great subs and I think there's at least one guy with SVS subs near you. Short of boosting the boomy bass or cranking the over all SPLs I'm not sure what other options you have. Do you have an SPL meter? If you do how about doing some measurements for us from 120 down to 15 or so and get back to us? You can use one of the many sine wave generators if you don't have a CD with them on.




              Comment

              • DavidY
                Member
                • Aug 2000
                • 67

                #8
                Andrew,

                Sorry, I don't live in Vancouver anymore....right now, I live right near the Alaska-B.C. border in the North Coast of B.C. If you want rain, we've got it here in spades.

                As for upgrading, I will probably put a pair of SVS subs in my system sooner or later. With a lousy local economy right now, I will have to put any HT upgrades on the backburner. The local Chamber of Commerce just announced that 52 companies/stores/retailers have left the area or shut down since April 1997...many in the last 6-12 months. 52 stores may not sound like much, but for a city of less than 20,000 (more like 15,000 now), it's pretty significant.

                Back to the topic at hand, any idea where I can download a test tone file. Awhile ago, there was a file at Patman's site....however I think that there was a problem with it....or I had problems trying to download it. I guess that test tones from say 15 to 100 Hz in steps of 5 Hz (for 5 seconds) would probably be ideal.

                Yeah, I have a RS Analog Sound Meter. It was one of the first things that I bought when I got the HT addiction.

                Dave

                Comment

                • P-Dub
                  Office Moderator
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 6766

                  #9
                  Hey David, just a thought, you said your subs are a 'couple feet' from the corner. Any chance of moving them closer to the corner? My sub's less than a foot from my corner and the little Energy 8" really puts out some bass. My room sucks, it's L shaped, 30' to the kitchen, and 15' to the back. I do have carpet under hardwood floor. What didn't you like with the sub at 150 Hz? This would seem the logical setting as your sub doesn't have a bypass. Just curious. Sounds odd as I would imagine two Mission's should provide quite a thump. Am I correct that you want to feel your couch move when you see Morpheous knee the floor?




                  Paul

                  There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.
                  Paul

                  There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.

                  Comment

                  • DavidY
                    Member
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 67

                    #10
                    Although I live in an apartment with a no noise policy, I still need/want more slam.

                    As for moving the subs closer to the corner, I think that it can be done...just need to move things around a bit. Would the subs placed right against the corner be too much? The only other location is on either side of my listening position and between me and the rear speakers, located on either side of me and at ear level. Not a great location since it affects my halogen light stand and cludders up the listening position area. I can't stand multiuse rooms -- way too cramped (TV/HT, living room, dining room and computer station, all in a 10'x20' room).

                    Dave

                    Comment

                    • Andrew Pratt
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 16507

                      #11
                      Daivd here's one link for some MP3 sine waves or I use the sine wave generator in WinISD (click downloads then WinISD)




                      Comment

                      • Markj
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 323

                        #12
                        David: There are two things I would try. One put the subs right in the corner if possible. The second would be to stack the subs. These two moves would get the most out of your subs.

                        Comment

                        • Lexman
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Jun 2000
                          • 1777

                          #13
                          Great advice Mark, but I believe he already tried that, though I don't know that it was the right corner. Corner loading left or right should be adequite. I think the problem has been isolated to the subs not going extremely low. Especially with substantial SPL. Anyway, great discussion here guys! This is exactly how a forum is supposed to work! :B

                          Lex

                          Comment

                          • Andrew Pratt
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 16507

                            #14
                            well once we ave some real numbers to look at we'll be in a much better place to offer real suggestions. Is the bass truely is missing or is it just hidden in a room null etc these are the questions we need to answer.




                            Comment

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