So who's winning the high def dvd race ?

[George Bellefontaine]

Since both formats are both available now, anyone know which of the two formats is leading in sales ?

[Chris D]

I know one thing... the consumers are NOT winning.

[aud19]

I know one thing... the consumers are NOT winning.

Pretty much :evil: :roll:

Though if I had to venture a guess...I'd say HD-DVD is slightly ahead at this point but it's still pretty early for BD and Playstation3 hasy yet to make it's impact soooo......? :huh:

[David Meek]

Just based on comments around the 'net, I'd have to give the edge to HD-DVD in quality of video. And that's what counts, right?

[Ovation]

Just based on comments around the 'net, I'd have to give the edge to HD-DVD in quality of video. And that's what counts, right?

You would think, though Beta lost out to VHS (though if Sony had licensed Beta...)

[Andrew M Ward]

Since both formats are both available now, anyone know which of the two formats is leading in sales ?

According to Consumer Electronics Daily:

The HD-DVD launch has been considered a total failure... so I can only imagine the feelings about the much delayed and very poorly selling Blu-Ray...Launch, if you can even call that a launch, it was more like a fart...

(What's that smell)

I repeat "Total failure"

[bigburner]

Just based on comments around the 'net, I'd have to give the edge to HD-DVD in quality of video. And that's what counts, right?

If you apply that logic David we'd all be using OS/2 and Windows would have died years ago.

[Snap]

I think Toshiba has the lead right now as more HD-DVD players are out and in peoples homes. But......... Sony has deep pockets, and like Jason said, Playstation 3 has not made its effect yet! Couple that with Samsung rolling out the BD, I think Sony might win this battle in the end. There are going to be a TON of PS3 sold, and that is going to help BIG time swing the tide!

I had ordered a Toshiba HD-DVD player for my home, and Canx the whole idea till this settles down a bit. I think that there is going to be a LOT of people that get burned that is for sure. There is going to be a whole bunch just like before of people that have a certian system and then get screwed. It would be nice if they would just join forces, and make a standard format and be done!

But for me I am waiting it out for a year or so.

BY THE WAY....... Have any of you all seen these titles at Block Buster or some other store? I know that you can BUY the videos, but what about renting??

[Chris D]

I'm not happy with much about the way this has been handled--the existence of the war to begin with, the delays, the releases of both products, the early tech problems with early equipment of both formats, (although this happens with a lot of new technologies, not just these two) and finally HOW these are being marketed. Example - I have yet to see PROPERLY set up equipment of these formats in Best Buy, showing actual HD material, taking full advantage of the formats' capabilities.

But to me, if I have to judge who's in the lead so far, I'd say HD-DVD. We have a long way to go, though.

[George Bellefontaine]

One thing I know for sure, my decision to not be an early adopter on this baby has certainly turned out to be correct. But I do hope things settle to the point where we can see a clear winner in the not too distant future.

[Azeke]

I concur with George, I'm going to wait until the dust settles, before I even consider any upgrades to 1080p, HDMI, HD-DVD. By that time there will another new technology on the horizon, we must remember that the only thing constant is change.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

[Andrew M Ward]

I concur with George, I'm going to wait until the dust settles, before I even consider any upgrades to 1080p, HDMI, HD-DVD. By that time there will another new technology on the horizon, we must remember that the only thing constant is change.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

Exactly!

I just purchased (today) on regular DVD

1) Lock Stock and two smoking barrels
2) The Godfather
3) Anchorman
4) The good the bad and the ugly
5) Groundhog day
6) Waiting
7) Van Helsing
8) Domino
9) True Lies
10) Charlie’s Angels
11) Grumpy old men
12) Terminator 2
13) Snatch
14) Vacation
15) Bill Maher - New Rules

Not an amazing array (true) but 5 of them were $7.50.... !!!! the highest price was the Deluxe two disc with (fancy) booklet "Snatch" Guy Ritchie box set... $14.99 (Oooohhh gosh)

All are new all are un-opened
After tax $166.88

I mean seriously, it costs me $50.oo to go to the movie with my girlfriend.... why would I even consider Blu-Ray or HD-DVD and their 9 titles and cluster F***K launch and complete disregard for the end-user attitude...

I'm as happy as a clam, and DVD's look great (to me) and usually sound good... truly Audio is my love but DVD's are fun...

Most of these will go unwatched for months (Who's got the time) but I just buy them and they sit... and when I am home and have an evening, I mix up a Gin and Tonic and have a few dozen un-opened movies to pick through and decide what to watch! (FUN!)

[audioqueso]

One thing that pisses the hell out of me out is that they decided to change the size of the freakin' cases! I hate that... no one is going to think "oh look, I'm saving space." JUST MAKE THE CASES ALL UNIFORM!!! :rant:

[Gene Simmons]

Well if past history means anything, we all know that whatever Sony backs will flop!

[Fishy]

All I know is that Sony is buying up all the lasers for their setup. This is causing me a real headache, as a I cant get my cisco switches!

I wish someone would win, and get this headache over with.

Fish

[Russ L]

Sony messed up SACD as soon as they decided they weren't gonna make as much money as they thought. They might bail out on Blue-Ray if they think they've lost to HD-DVD+Toshiba and aren't meeting their projected profit margins. Sony has lost so much money in the past years they really need Blue Ray to make money. But if they cut and run Blue-Ray purchasers will be out of luck. At least some Classical labels still care about Quality audio and SACD even if Sony doesn't. Now all I have to do is learn to like Classical more than I do :M -Russ

[Russ L]

But to answer the question...from the instore displays(most were poorly setup) I've seen... Toshiba is winning. Best picture, value in the player for the price.

[Andrew M Ward]

Sony messed up SACD as soon as they decided they weren't gonna make as much money as they thought. They might bail out on Blue-Ray if they think they've lost to HD-DVD+Toshiba and aren't meeting their projected profit margins. Sony has lost so much money in the past years they really need Blue Ray to make money. But if they cut and run Blue-Ray purchasers will be out of luck. At least some Classical labels still care about Quality audio and SACD even if Sony doesn't. Now all I have to do is learn to like Classical more than I do :M -Russ

Here's the problem...

Blu-Ray is now forced into using MPEG as a decoder for their HI-Def discs... Bad idea.... The picture sucks (I'm not kidding)

Blu-Ray has about (2 X) the potential picture quality over HD-DVD but they are now forced to use the MPEG-2 engine because MicroSoft went HD-DVD... F**K ... thats the end of that!

So now we look at Blu-Ray discs and see Shee-it for picture quality... Doomed I say ... Doomed...

Ahhh, it's all about your partners.. Blu-Ray had great promise but I call it dead... as of right now!!!

[Brandon B]

Blu-Ray has about (2 X) the potential picture quality over HD-DVD but they are now forced to use the MPEG-2 engine because MicroSoft went HD-DVD... F

Microsoft's VC1 codec is also part of the Bl-ray spec. Sony is just refusing to use it because of MS' support of HD-DVD. No one is preventing them.

BB

[brac]

I too hope for a winner so we can start to upgrade. I was just at the local BB and they had a blu-ray set up on display, however they did not bother to have a sound system tied to it, I guess sound isn't important. They were also selling the HD-DVD player but refused to show it in action. The sales geek said " It's not worth the picture since Blu-ray is so much better" (I just don't know if he meant picture or profit "better")


We shall see
As they say in Jamacia SOON COME

[H.T.C]

Besides this forum and others who are knowlegeable, over 90% consumers do not even care about the formats out there and do no research about the hd-dvd or blue ray anyways.

There is also the fact that how many can max out thier credit cards to aford all these products?.

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Besides this forum and others who are knowlegeable, over 90% consumers do not even care about the formats out there and do no research about the hd-dvd or blue ray anyways.

There is also the fact that how many can max out thier credit cards to aford all these products?.

Exactly. Recent interviews with industry execs show that not only are the consumers waiting, but other manufacturers are waiting also. No one wants to bet on a failed format. Even if there is a declared "winner" I think both formats will lose sonner than they intended. People are focusing on one or the other, but both may fail from lack of sales.

Another thing to consider is that from the information I have found, there are 2 more formats available already, one in China, the other by Microsoft.
Steel

[Chris D]

Well, if you're talking about Windows Media Video High-Def (WMVHD) it's been out for a couple years now (no kidding) with resolution up to 1080p. I own several of the DVD's. The selection is very limited, and requires a strong HTPC with multichannel audio outputs for full functionality.

As for Blu-Ray, I do wonder--if it fails as a HD video format, I wonder if they would keep it around just for the PS3 gaming format, because they're putting it into the PS3?

[Brandon B]

Blu ray may or may not (or may already have) fail as a new video delivery format, but it will not disappear or even be relegated to a PS3 only format. As a data storage format, it will do well. No one will argue the storage cpaacity issue there, and my understanding is its power requirements for writing to a -R format are much more favorable the HD-DVD-R.

BB

[ht_addict]

As some one who has jumped on the new technology band wagon, all I can say it was the best $600CDN I could've spent when I got my Toshiba A1. I actually sold my two month old Denon 3910 to get it. The upconverting PQ of the Denon comes no where near that off a HD-DVD played on the A1, not to mention the upconverting PQ of the A1 is just as good. Now as most have probably read, there have been a few technical glitches with the player, yet its issues that not all are having. I for one have only experienced a couple off hiccups while watching the HD-DVD version of Bourne Supremacy. Toshiba has been on the ball with several firmware upgrades to address these issues and rumour has it V2.0 will be released soon enabling 5.1TrueHD.

Now on the Blu-Ray side, from what I've seen at BB/FS as well as what I've read, Sony has really dropped the ball. MPEG2, NO BD50 discs, issues with Samsungs BD player and no Blockbuster releases(Pirates, Cars) as well as numerous cancellations. Even if BR was to win in the end I would have a top notch player. But at this moment I can't see that happening, even when Sony releases their PS3. Not all PS3's will have HDMI, and those that do will cost $599US. Avid gamers are those who will snatch up the PS3 not those interested in watching movies. And every sale of PS3 doesn't guarantee a BR movie sale. Just like every sale of a $200US HD-DVD for XBOX360 doesn't guarantee a HD-DVD movie sale. Pioneer and Panasonic are too release BR-players in the near future, but at a price of $1500US, putting it out off hands of J6P and most HT nuts. At this time HD-DVD offers the best PQ/$$$ ratio and will so for atleast the next year.

[Brandon B]

What are you basing the one year on (curious)?

BB

[Chris D]

Good to hear your experiences, ht addict, especially since I too have a Denon 3910. But do you miss SACD, DVD-A, and the higher quality of upconversion as well as overall sound output of the 3910?

[ht_addict]

What are you basing the one year on (curious)?

BB

On the fact its going too take that long if not longer for the price of Blu-Ray hardware to drop in price. Your not going to see a $1100 or even a $1500 player drop to $500 anytime soon. Not to mention until the BR cable start using VC-1 instead of Mpeg-2 the PQ is going to suffer. Also BD-50G disks are nowhere in sight to help off set the use of Mpeg-2.

[ht_addict]

Good to hear your experiences, ht addict, especially since I too have a Denon 3910. But do you miss SACD, DVD-A, and the higher quality of upconversion as well as overall sound output of the 3910?

Nope! Only used the 3910 for movies and the upconversion of the A1 is on par with the Denon in my opinion. As for the audio, the A1 does the decoding and its passed to my 4806 via HDMI as Hi-rez PCM so the 4806 decodes. So the sound is :T

[Brandon B]

On the fact its going too take that long if not longer for the price of Blu-Ray hardware to drop in price. Your not going to see a $1100 or even a $1500 player drop to $500 anytime soon.

No. But the PS3 could be a factor there. And there will be other cheaper players sooner than a year. Of note is the fact that the Toshiba HD-DVD decks are almost certainly being sold at a loss right now. Sony could also adopt that strategy, (beyond the PS3 where they already have).

Not to mention until the BR cable start using VC-1 instead of Mpeg-2 the PQ is going to suffer. Also BD-50G disks are nowhere in sight to help off set the use of Mpeg-2.

They aren't going to use VC-1, they will be using H.264 MPEG 4, which is pretty much the equal of VC-1. And I don't think that's a year away. BD-50, might be a year. might not. They are almost certainly brining a lot of engineering resources to bear on that issue, though, so I would not be surprised if tht issue was resolved in well under a year also.

So you might be right. If Sony continues to handle the situation as poorly as they have thus far, you almost certainly are. I would hope somewhere in the company they have capable people who are addressing the curent missteps though.
BB

[ht_addict]

No. But the PS3 could be a factor there. And there will be other cheaper players sooner than a year. Of note is the fact that the Toshiba HD-DVD decks are almost certainly being sold at a loss right now. Sony could also adopt that strategy, (beyond the PS3 where they already have).

Everybody keeps thinking that the PS3 is going to be the saving grace for BR, though this is yet to be seen. The PS3 is a gaming unit, it is not and will not be considered by most the center piece to a HT. Not to mention there is no guarantee that every PS3 owner is going to buy BR movies.

They aren't going to use VC-1, they will be using H.264 MPEG 4, which is pretty much the equal of VC-1. And I don't think that's a year away. BD-50, might be a year. might not. They are almost certainly brining a lot of engineering resources to bear on that issue, though, so I would not be surprised if tht issue was resolved in well under a year also.

Sony continues to promote the use of MPEG2 and will never use VC-1 because of MS. They may move to H.264/MPEG4, though this won't stop other studio's from using VC-1

So you might be right. If Sony continues to handle the situation as poorly as they have thus far, you almost certainly are. I would hope somewhere in the company they have capable people who are addressing the curent missteps though.
BB

At the price of the PS3 especially the HDMI version, it could be a tough sell, especially with the US economy showing signs of slowing down(housing market taking a noise dive).

[Chris D]

You're right, ht addict, we just don't know if the PS3 is going to be "the saving grace" for BR or not. I think everybody would agree that it's going to help Sony's cause, though, at least a little bit. We'll see.

I know that I, for one, am highly considering the PS3, and I'm a HT junkie, not a gamer. That may be my first step into the HD-disc formats. I'd guess (only a blind guess) that I'm not the only one like that.

[cobbpa]

I traveled on business all summer & often stopped at a Best Buy to kill time in the evenings. When I asked, usually the HD-DVD had dominated sales of the BR unit. One particular store only had the floor model of the Toshiba left while they still had not sold a single BR player. Interestingly, the Samsung player was connected to a smallish (30"?) Samsung LCD, and I think that tv's quality really hurt the Blu-Ray; or maybe it was just connected badly. The Toshiba was hooked up to a Sony SXRD and produced a picture that was far superior. None of the stores I was in had either of the formats hooked up for optimal sound.

The question I have with the PS3 is somewhat obvious--for those of you who aren't into gaming, is there still some higher 'worth' of spending $600 on the PS3 vs. $500 on the Toshiba? I understand that technically, BR has the higher capacity & such, but it doesn't sound like that's being fully utilized. Just curious how others feel about that..the PS3 will drop the price significantly, but it still isn't as cheap as the entry Toshiba.

[Brandon B]

For me, the PS3 was a likely purchase only as a gaming system, so it seems like just a bonus to be able to use that as a toe into HD disc water.

If you aren't going to play games on it, then no, I see no advantage to it over the Toshiba.

BB

[Race Car Driver]

well...it is cheaper.

[Gene Simmons]

No. But the PS3 could be a factor there. And there will be other cheaper players sooner than a year. Of note is the fact that the Toshiba HD-DVD decks are almost certainly being sold at a loss right now. Sony could also adopt that strategy, (beyond the PS3 where they already have).

Two problems with this tho...
1. Sony has never in its history been a loss leader and never will be.
2. PS3 estimates have already been cut in half and they are still having massive production problems.

So they wont drop the price of their bluray machines any time soon, and by the time PS3 penetrates the mass market, the war will be almost over.

But I also dont think either one will survive - their main purpose will be soley data disks. This whole debacle has been a serious misstep by all the companies involved, all you have to do is look at sales, and the share prices of the companies involved! No one really cares.

[gianni]

After seeing what the new Denon players like the 2930 can do, I think plain old standard DVD is going to win.

[aud19]

After seeing what the new Denon players like the 2930 can do, I think plain old standard DVD is going to win.

For now I think you're right. Quite frabkly the companies just have to do better that this. Period.

[spyboy]

And does anyone think the computer battery debacle of Sony is going to divert any resources from Blu ray?

[gianni]

For now I think you're right. Quite frabkly the companies just have to do better that this. Period.

I agree, for now anyway. Not that I would not welcome the HD - but they have quite a way to go to make it desirable for most a/v hobbyists let alone the mainstream.

[gianni]

And does anyone think the computer battery debacle of Sony is going to divert any resources from Blu ray?

Does make you wonder....

[Nick M]

I've heard that current BR films look like hell with MPEG-2, worse than HD-DVD. I am hoping that with H.264 MPEG-4 and the PS3 that Sony will win, as it is the superior technology. Given history though, I don't have my hopes up.

With HD-DVD players at $500, $600 for a BR player that also dishes out kick@$$ games (PS3) is actually a pretty good value. I know plenty of people who got into DVDs with the PS2, so it's not that much of a jump at all.

In reality, I don't see either format "exploding though". The vast majority of people still have standard definition CRTs in their homes. It may very well end up being another flopped SACD/DVD-A type format, which is a damn shame...

[ht_addict]

After seeing what the new Denon players like the 2930 can do, I think plain old standard DVD is going to win.

But it never will be HiDef and the cost off the 2930 is more than a Toshiba A1. Just doesn't make sense to by the Denon :agree:

[ht_addict]

I've heard that current BR films look like hell with MPEG-2, worse than HD-DVD. I am hoping that with H.264 MPEG-4 and the PS3 that Sony will win, as it is the superior technology. Given history though, I don't have my hopes up.

You heard correct and if you ever saw it you'd wonder why people would spend the money on the Samsung thats out right now.

With HD-DVD players at $500, $600 for a BR player that also dishes out kick@$$ games (PS3) is actually a pretty good value. I know plenty of people who got into DVDs with the PS2, so it's not that much of a jump at all.

From what I've heard the DVD drive in the PS2, was not the best. So who knows how the drive in PS3 is going to fair.

In reality, I don't see either format "exploding though". The vast majority of people still have standard definition CRTs in their homes. It may very well end up being another flopped SACD/DVD-A type format, which is a damn shame...

And when DVD first came out it was the HT junkies that bought the new tech, just like they are doing right now. And there buying HD-DVD :T

[brac]

Has anyone played with either HD or blu-ray, I really want to know if my 100" wide picture will look any different than my current oppo upconverted pic.

And want I'd really like to see is OPPO come out with a player that will play both formats and cost under $300.....

Of course look on the bright side if you buy the loser in this fight the titles that are available will become pretty cheap....... Think Laser Disk!!!!!