Charlie Musselwhite and Lessons in High Fidelity

[bigburner]

Recently I went to hear Charlie Musselwhite in concert. I was expecting a gentle, laid-back evening of blues, but that’s not what I got. Chris Cain came on before Charlie and played a superb set of fast, intricate lead guitar. You may not have heard of Chris Cain but he deserves a lot more recognition than he gets, even if he does look like a librarian. His lead break in Trouble Makin' Woman was sublime and took my breath away, but I digress…

Going to a concert is a valuable lesson for us hi-fi folk. I hadn’t been to a concert since joining this forum and I had forgotten a few things about concerts:

• Concerts are LOUD. They present a solid wall of sound. If you want your home hi-fi to sound like a concert then it needs to be able to play loudly with a wide soundstage.

• At a concert you don’t hear the finest detail like the guitarist dropping his pick on the floor or the vocalist sucking in breath between lines. Fine detail may be important listening to some genres at home but it isn’t essential for others.

• Bass is powerful these days, even on comparatively quiet songs. That’s the modern style. You FEEL the bass as well as hear it. If you haven’t got a subwoofer (or large floorstanders and a powerful amp) then it’s going to be difficult to experience what a concert sounds like.

• Concerts are in glorious mono.

• A quality hi-fi is great, but for many genres quantity is more important than quality. It therefore isn’t necessary to spend a fortune to experience concert-quality sound for many genres.

If you’re not careful, being a member of this forum can sometimes make one feel a little inadequate. I came away from that concert feeling really good about my less-than-perfect hi-fi system. Well until the next “essential” upgrade anyway!

[David Meek]

If you’re not careful, being a member of this forum can sometimes make one feel a little inadequate.

How so, BB? That's one of the big things we (owner, admins and moderators) DON'T want here. If we're not doing something we should, let us know.

[bigburner]

David, sometimes I feel that one or two members with modest systems almost apologise for their gear and would say more if they owned more expensive gear. I could be wrong - it's just a feeling.

[bigburner]

...and I forgot to say that you guys do a good job maintaining order in an environment where some people have pretty strong opinions.

[David Meek]

You noticed those opinions? :B

Serioiusly though, thanks. We do try to keep it a pleasant place where hopefully everyone that wants to post will.

Concerts are in glorious mono.

That's interesting. I've always thought that live events were "surround sound", what with all the ambient noises coupled with the various sounds coming from differing locations on the stage. Hmmm, gotta go ponder. . . .

[David Meek]

At a concert you don’t hear the finest detail like the guitarist dropping his pick on the floor or the vocalist sucking in breath between lines. Fine detail may be important listening to some genres at home but it isn’t essential for others.

I'll add one qualifier to this. In a "small club" venue you can hear that pick hit the whiskey bottle on the floor by the guitarist's foot.

[H.Donald]

Bigburner,I like you attend very few live concerts...and these days I am almost always dissapointed at the quality of sound.Unless of course you are at a small venue such as a club like David mentioned....even then I find that a mixed bag.It seems today all the sound men,mixers,producers think that more is always better.Whether in a large arena or small club,it's..."let's turn the bass all the way up"....even on recordings these days,the bass is on a lot of records...distorted.Most of my children's hip hop cds are just poorly produced.They do not seem to understand that less can sometimes be more.
The problem with live music seems to be more acoustics than anything.Most of the shows I have seen in the past few years have been at the local melody tent.Which is just that a tent...there is a revolving stage and it only holds 2,000 people,tops.It is a great place to see someone but a lousy place to hear someone.Last year we were front row for B.B.King...bad move...it was to say the least not pleasant.Just toooo loud...I don't mind not hearing the find details but I would like to be able to tell one note from the other.We found the sound outside the tent much more pleasant.This year they have made some improvments...they have put up some form of acoustic baffles.I will be going there soon...so we will see.I believe the basic problem is just too loud sound for such a small venue.You can bet we will be in the "cheap" seats.It's great to see live music...but I,like you,are more appreciative of my modest system afterwards.

[H.Donald]

By the way,how was Charlie Musselwhite?I remember seeing him in the 60s....damn,I am old...and so must be Charlie...

[gd]

The real moral of this storyline is: enjoy live music OFTEN.

Not just to have a reference to guage your audio gear (though that is very useful), but to experience living, breathing musicians laying it on the line.

Hit the concert halls... hit the 1000-seater theatres... hit the little beer-joint night clubs... there is a wealth of musical enjoyment (and education, as noted)... and there are a variety of venues with different sonic experiences... some deliver a blaring wall of sound, some exhibit enveloping surround ambience.

Get off the couch and into the music... it's good for ya!

[maddog]

The idea of experiencing live music sounds good. But, unfortunately, the reality of it can be somewhat unpleasant. My experience with it over the past decade is, unfortunately, somewhat like H. Donald describes. It's just way too loud and distorted, or at least it is for rock and roll music. I used to go to the Beale Street Music Festival every year (a large outdoor concert over 3 days with several stages of live music in early May in Memphis), but it got to the point to where the music was so loud and distorted that my ears would ring aftwards. I tried wearing earplugs. That made the volume about right, but it makes the sound quality even worse. I also find the volume of indoor rock concerts way too loud and distorted. I have given up on going to live rock concerts. I'd rather protect my ears for listening to my own audio system as opposed to going to an ear-bashing live event put on by a bunch of drugged-out rock musicians and sound engineers who don't know what the heck they are doing when they turn up the volume to ridiculous levels.

- maddog

[bigburner]

I enjoy loud but I know what you mean by too loud. I remember going to see Grand Funk Railroad in London in 1975 and having to leave the concert half way through because I was in pain. That experience put me off rock concerts for years. When I did venture back I used to take cotton wool just in case.

When I referred to the Chris Cain bracket at the Charlie Musselwhite concert being loud I did not mean Grand Funk loud. I meant loud compared to what I hear at most people's houses. It's probably a sign of my age group. However when I'm in the mood that level of volume is just too soft for me. I guess I just haven't grown up yet.

H.Donald, Charlie was just great thank you. First time I've seen him live.

[David Meek]

It's probably a sign of my age group. However when I'm in the mood that level of volume is just too soft for me. I guess I just haven't grown up yet.

Hehe, do I ever know what you mean.

P.S. I'm glad there's someone else around here that's an old hard rocker. :

Saw Grand Funk, eh? Now that's cool. One of the first "collectable" (sic?) albums I ever bought was their American Band in transparent gold vinyl.

[jim777]

A quality hi-fi is great, but for many genres quantity is more important than quality. It therefore isn’t necessary to spend a fortune to experience concert-quality sound for many genres.

Maybe that I wan't to listen to studio quality instead of live quality

And I can say that Steve Vai plays a bit too loud

And one of my last Dream Theater shows was s*** because the sound was so loud that it was in distorsion. Not good for DT fans... most are musicians.

Anyway, if a band could play just for you and a few friends, you would hear alot of details that you don't hear when they play for thousands of people.

So if someone want's "modern concert quality", go to Future Shop (best buy or whatever).

If you want a private session with your favorite jazz quartet, dig deeper in your pocket

Just my 2 cents, I just think that concert quality is often bad so that's not what I'm looking for at home.

[Jack Keck]

I volunteer at a small venue (86 people if everyone agrees not to breathe) and get to hear mainly acoustic atrists in that setting. No matter how good your system is, it can't match a good live experience. There's just something about the atmosphere, the between-song banter, the occasional audible mistake, and so on that you can't duplicate at home.

And if you're in the greater Detroit area, check out the Trinity House Theatre. www.trinityhouse.org

[maddog]

Jack,

I agree with you about acoustic and "unplugged" sessions and maybe even amplified music in small clubs when they manage the volume well. But, amplified music in large venues is a complete other story. I'd like to go to big amplified rock concerts, but the consequences of too loud music on my ears are just too real.

- maddog

[David Meek]

I thought the name Charlie Musselwhite sounded familiar. Stereophile reviewed his album Sanctuary a while back - actually it was the August 2004 issue - and gave it their highest ratings for both sonics and performance. After reading that I'd meant to pick it up, but forgot about it at the time. Thanks for the memory jog BigB. :yesnod:

[bigburner]

Just to contradict everything else I've said in this thread, I spent a very pleasant evening with my wife on Friday listening to music at low to moderate levels. The highlight of the playlist was Linda Ronstadt's cover of the Rolling Stones song "Tumbling Dice" off her Simple Dreams (VINYL) album. First of all, it's a great song delivered very well. Second, what a lovely sound it has. My wife described the sound as "creamy" which is the most perceptive description of vinyl I've had for a while.

The full playlist was:

Tumbling Dice Linda Ronstadt
Rainy Night In Georgia Ray Charles
Prisoner The Outlaws
All The King's Horses Robert Plant & The Strange Sensation
I Will Always Love You Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton
I Will Always Love You Whitney Houston
Strong Enough To Be My Man Cheryl Crow
The 59th Street Bridge Song (Feelin' Groovy) Simon & Garfunkel
You've Got To Hide Your Love Away The Beatles
Sittin' On Top Of The World Willie Nelson
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of U2
Summertime Janis Joplin & Jimi Hendrix
Why Do Fools Fall In Love Elvis Presley
You're No Good Linda Ronstadt
Different Drum Linda Ronstadt & The Stone Ponies
Homeward Bound Simon & Garfunkel
Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown) The Beatles
What if God Was One of Us Cheryl Crow
Give Me Strength Eric Clapton
Nothing Can Change this Love Sam Cooke
Worried Life Blues Eric Clapton
Across The Universe The Beatles
Crazy Mama J.J. Cale
Only Fools Rush In Elvis Presley
Lazy Tony Joe White
7 O'Clock News/Silent Night Simon & Garfunkel
Walk On By Dionne Warwick
When Will I Be Loved Linda Ronstadt
Melody The Rolling Stones

[Pieter]

The full playlist was:

Tumbling Dice Linda Ronstadt
...
...
...
Melody The Rolling Stones

Nigel, that's some playlist, not only in variety, but in length too.

Must have been wearing sneakers and a sweat suit to flip that much vinyl!

[bigburner]

Apologies Pieter, a misunderstanding. Tumbling Dice was on vinyl (we also listened to Blue Bayou off the same record). The rest were digital, all driven from my laptop, allowing me to recline gracefully most of the time. I got up occasionally to adjust the playlist, for example playing I Will Always Love You by Whitney Houston straight after the Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton version. My wife loves Linda Ronstadt so a few more of her songs snuck in too. That playlist is actually only 1 hour 42 minutes long. We listened to some CD tracks as well but I can't remember them as I have a dodgy memory at that time of day.

[Pieter]

Apologies Pieter, a misunderstanding. Tumbling Dice was on vinyl (we also listened to Blue Bayou off the same record). The rest were digital, all driven from my laptop...

You cheat, you are.

[DelRay]

Hey bigburner, Guess I'm not the only one who gets a quiet evening at home with the wife. I've got the 10 disc cd set of the 70's music, Bunch of good songs there. Sometimes we'll sit together and listen for an hour or two. It's nice to relax like that. But there's times that I just want to listen to some rock n roll up loud. She doesn't hang around during those times. :twisted: