Impressions on the NAD M51

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  • PewterTA
    Moderator
    • Nov 2004
    • 2901

    Impressions on the NAD M51

    Well I've had my NAD M51 for over a week so far using it everyday and I figured I'd post up some impressions and opinions on the DAC. First I will say that my unit is a factory (NAD) refurbished which saved a few hundred bucks on the unit. I ordered it from SpearIt Sound up in Massachusetts and they were top notice professional throughout the whole ordering process and are an authorized NAD Dealer. Upon arrival, I have to say I had all the factory boxes (double boxed) with the NAD sealed tape across everything....so I was very impressed with the packaging and all cables (power) were in the box in their "accessories" box on top of the NAD unit. Taking the unit out it was wrapped in a nice cotton cover and the first impressions were, wow, this is built well and is HEAVY for being a dac. There was not a single mark on the unit noting that it was a refurbished unit what so ever. Only thing that might give it away is that there was no "typical" plastic covering something like the display (which NAD might not do in general). The brushed aluminum front and typical gray cover and chasis is in all the typical NAD stylized Master Series you see.

    After unboxing, I had to let my unit warm up for an hour or two after being sitting outside and literally freezing in 15 degree weather. This was fine for me as I had to re-arrange the audio equipment to put this in place. This unit is replacing my long time Cambridge Audio 840c CDP that I was using as my DAC, which sat on the bottom of my equipment with my Rotel RSP-1098 and RT-1080 on top of it. Knowing how heavy the Pre & Tuner were I didn't want to put the DAC on the bottom, so I rearranged the gear to put the DAC on top of the 1098 and 1080. I also replaced my vibrapods that I had holding the equipment up with a rubber/cork/rubber vibration pads that are better suited to the extra weight of the NAD over the 840c. So once I got that all moved around (which resulted in re-cabling a lot of it) I was ready to see what this DAC could do.

    Now I have to say with the unit being refurbished I'm not sure if there would be any type of break in or not.... Now I am one that through buying new equipment I feel there is a break-in time with equipment to either get the unit to perform optimally or for me to get used to the sound. So I basically came into this as it "should be" broken in already, but the sound could change slightly upon further use. So take some of this as you will as I'll be commenting on how over a week or so of using the unit how I feel the sound has changed for me.

    Now the M51 is, at this point in time, an "older" DAC compared to the newest ones out there and does not accept DSD streams to it. This, for me, is not a downside as I've got the ability to output the PCM streams...but for some people wanting DSD and all it "does"... that could be some type of issue.

    Once I replaced the 840c, I used my BlackSandsAudio Violet Z1 MK2 power cord to power the NAD, ditching the normal power cable that came with the NAD. Again, take it for what you will, but I do feel power cables can make a slight difference, especially over the stock cords, but going much beyond the power cables I have...well I don't see the same return on investment. So I'd have a SUPER tough time going beyond what I paid for the BlackSandsAudio Cable. I also wanted to keep things as similar to the 840c as I could as I just didn't have room to demo back and forth between the two units easily (plus I didn't have a readily available power cable that wasn't stock).

    My first impressions were the NAD is more laid back and softer than the 840c that I was very used to. I did feel the M51 had a slightly better midrange to it, but not by much. The upper range is much more forward and present with the 840c which, to me, results in a brighter sound. This initially made me feel that the 840c was more detailed and better at resolving the upper range. The bass on both units was VERY similar and in fact I felt the bass was a little bit more prominent with the CA 840c. Again, this is initial listening to the NAD M51.

    I should say that on my CA 840c, I have modified it a little bit by silver soldering all the cables to the connectors to give a better connection. This, I feel, did give a better overall sound to the 840c vs the first couple years I had it. I also replaced the fuses in the unit with slightly better Bussman fuses and got a little bit better sound doing this as well. So this is not exactly a stock 840c.

    Now that I've had the NAD M51 in my system for the last week listening to it. I have to say my thoughts on the NAD have changed some. First bass... whatever happened to the M51... something "broken in" or "finally got to optimal performance" About, I would say, the 20 - 30 hour mark, all the sudden the bass just EXPLODED from the unit. The level of bass depth, power, speed, accuracy, and tactility is well... pretty darn impressive. I'm noticing much deeper sound with a lot more power. It's almost like adding a subwoofer to the system....or well... turning the volume up on it at least. There is a lot more energy that I'm getting from my B&W 802Diamonds that I just never got from the 840c. The funny part is it's not on every song, but when songs that you would expect it to have powerful bass, it really stands out and comes alive. Not to the point of being overly annoying...but it's just there in all it's glory. The fact that I didn't have this bass upon using it the first couple days is well... interesting to me because other than break-in, I don't know how to explain it. And it's also not just in my head as I'm feeling it in the couch and table I rest my feet on which I did not get before.

    Now on the midrange, especially with vocals, I feel these really have stayed the same as when I first hooked it up. What has changed is my perception that the M51 was weighted in the midrange. It's definitely still sweeter in the mids than the 840c, but it's not at the point of feeling that the response is anything but flat. It just simple does mids better. They have a very smooth sound and yet extremely detailed and life-like. Which, after a couple weeks now, I have to say I'm very much enjoying. The 840c does the mids in a very similar fashion to the M51, and if it weren't for the fact I know the 840c's sound like the back of my hand, i'd probably have had a tough time telling the two apart. The M51 just has a little sense of being boosted in the midrange or well, focusing on the mids more than the 840c does.

    In the upper range, where I definitely initially favored the 840c, the M51 has now basically redeemed itself in all aspects. To me, the 840c focuses on the highs in the same aspect where the M51 focuses on the mids. However, after listening to the M51 now, I'm finding that there is no detail lost in the upper range and in fact, might have more information in the highs than the 840c. It's just than the NAD M51 does it much more subtly and probably, for me, was more a re-training of my brain on what I'm hearing and letting go of the "I'm not hearing it all and feel like I'm missing something" that I had to go through. Now that I've gotten through that... I definitely feel that I'm not missing any information in the upper range, it's just a little more mellow (by the slightest bit) and it actually has resulted in a much more enjoyable experience.

    The place where I am finding the M51 is the DAC I'm definitely in favor of, is the 3D aspect to everything in the presentation. Now with this, I don't mean that my sound stage has gotten bigger and imaging is better in a 3D space. I mean that there's a fullness to each and every instrument, vocal, and sound that comes from the speakers. The only way I could explain this like this, where before when I listened to a passage of music, if you can imaging a 3D stage in front of you with 2D performers on it. Like cardboard cutouts on stage sitting in a three dimensional space where there is depth to their placement, but not to themselves. It's very much that same feeling that you hear. All sounds have a fullness, roundess, like they have weight and depth and feel to them, more of a sense of lifelike sound to it. The only way I really heard this is by sitting down and really listening to things that I am very familiar with and going back and hooking the 840c to find that it felt very 'flat' compared to the NAD M51.

    Another thing that has brought this "3D" sound to the unit and that I just found the other day is using XLR ouputs to my Rotel RB-1090 amp. Using the NAD as my Pre-amp and not the Rotel has brought this out further. Its still there with the unbalanced connections to the 1098, but shows itself better with the XLR right to the AMP. This is with level matching the 1098 on it's output.

    I also added an balanced cable from my Musical Fidelity V-Link192 to the NAD at the same time as using the coaxial connection and flipping back and forth (and having someone else do it for me), I was never able to pick up any difference what-so-ever. I even disconnected the coaxial wondering if it wasn't outputting/changing inputs as you didn't get any skip/click/pop at all when switching inputs. So either a balanced connection doesn't make much difference when carrying a digital signal over a coaxial connection or more that the MF V-Link192's outputs are basically identical in what they output. Which I'm perfectly fine with that if that's the case. I'm keeping with the AES/EBU connection, just to say I have it. LOL! This is with using Cardas XLR cables recommended by Jon.

    So overall, I have to say this DAC is definitely very impressive!!! The amount of input and output options (having an extremely good digital volume control) really makes the M51 towards the top of just about whatever anyone could want.

    The only other much more expensive (4x) DAC that I've gotten some time to listen to was the Bricasti M1 and I'd say the M51 is close to that DAC. Unfortunately, the systems I heard the M1 on.... were far more expensive, so can't say if it was really more the DAC or the system that was as revealing. I'd love for Brian Zolner to be on here and send me a demo unit! ha ha! Or maybe not as then I'd probably want that if I felt it was that much better... so maybe I don't need to go through that.

    Anyways, if anyone is looking for, basically, an end-all DAC and doesn't feel the need for DSD... this DAC will give one everything I think they could ever need. It's a heck of a unit and I'm very happy that I took the jump and got it into my system.

    The next, which I'll post up, is a HiFi Tuning Supreme fuse is coming for the NAD. It should be here tomorrow or the next day. After a few days with the fuse replaced, I'll post back with my comments on what/if anything the fuse has done.

    I did add a HiFi Tuning Supreme fuse to my PSAudio P10 and it made a nice difference in all aspects of the system over it's stock fuse. I also have the HiFi Tuning fuses coming for my Rotel RB-1090 which I can't wait to see what that will do for the amp (if anything)...but I won't replace those until I have a good grasp on the M51s replacement to know what I'm hearing.

    So the moral of this story is, if you're looking to spend $2k on a DAC or more... Get this DAC. If you're going to spend 10K+ on a DAC. Still consider demoing this DAC along side those... you might be very impressed with how the M51 compares and at that point judge whether the extra money is worth spending on the more expensive one.

    Though as Jon has written for us, the Total DAC definitely seems to be a step up, but again it's in the "next level" of DACs.
    Digital Audio makes me Happy.
    -Dan
  • wkhanna
    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
    • Jan 2006
    • 5673

    #2
    Great write-up, Dan!

    I am V anxious to see & hear the new unit, & eventually try it out in my system.
    _


    Bill

    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

    FinleyAudio

    Comment

    • PewterTA
      Moderator
      • Nov 2004
      • 2901

      #3
      Thanks Bill... let me know when you're available.... I'll either bring it to you and then we can AB against the Gungnir quite easily with the switch on the back of the 1090 - though balanced vs unbalanced - while running both DACs.

      We can also hook up both balanced and unbalanced to the M51 and see the small differences as well (maybe the initial test before throwing the Gungnir in the mix). Course we can do balanced out of the Gungnir and use Foobar as the volume control as well...not sure if that would work completely though (ie not able to turn it up loud enough)... but anyways, we'll have to have some fun/time to test it all!
      Digital Audio makes me Happy.
      -Dan

      Comment

      • wkhanna
        Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
        • Jan 2006
        • 5673

        #4
        Originally posted by PewterTA
        ... let me know when you're available....
        I hope to make it over to your place this weekend.
        _


        Bill

        Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
        ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

        FinleyAudio

        Comment

        • JonMarsh
          Mad Max Moderator
          • Aug 2000
          • 15261

          #5
          I think you've captured a pretty good description of what the M51 does- if I had to summarize it briefly, it would be that it makes CD's of older recordings sound more like a master tape playback than a CD playback- which is, IMO, of course, a VERY good thing. While quite free from digititus, it doesn't have the softening or slightly syrupy quality of some high end SACD players, like the top Marantz models (I speak from ownership and personal experience- very pleasantly euphonic in certain playback configurations or purposes, such as a secondary system, but not first rate imaging).
          the AudioWorx
          Natalie P
          M8ta
          Modula Neo DCC
          Modula MT XE
          Modula Xtreme
          Isiris
          Wavecor Ardent

          SMJ
          Minerva Monitor
          Calliope
          Ardent D

          In Development...
          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
          Obi-Wan
          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
          Modula PWB
          Calliope CC Supreme
          Natalie P Ultra
          Natalie P Supreme
          Janus BP1 Sub


          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

          Comment

          • Hdale85
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Jan 2006
            • 16075

            #6
            You should promote the first thread as an article so it shows up on the main page, same with any long post with a review or something included, it's good content for the main page
            Last edited by Hdale85; 03 January 2014, 10:52 Friday.

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15261

              #7
              Good point. I'll try to do that as a moderator...
              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
              M8ta
              Modula Neo DCC
              Modula MT XE
              Modula Xtreme
              Isiris
              Wavecor Ardent

              SMJ
              Minerva Monitor
              Calliope
              Ardent D

              In Development...
              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
              Obi-Wan
              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
              Modula PWB
              Calliope CC Supreme
              Natalie P Ultra
              Natalie P Supreme
              Janus BP1 Sub


              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • jim1961
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2012
                • 357

                #8
                Originally posted by JonMarsh
                I think you've captured a pretty good description of what the M51 does- if I had to summarize it briefly, it would be that it makes CD's of older recordings sound more like a master tape playback than a CD playback- which is, IMO, of course, a VERY good thing. While quite free from digititus, it doesn't have the softening or slightly syrupy quality of some high end SACD players, like the top Marantz models (I speak from ownership and personal experience- very pleasantly euphonic in certain playback configurations or purposes, such as a secondary system, but not first rate imaging).
                Your description of a "softened" top end reminds me of my late CAL Aria Tube CD player. Especially in the late 80's, digital top ends were very edgy and brittle and the tube output section countered some of that perception.
                Seek out and destroy early high gain room reflections

                Comment

                • Finleyville
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 350

                  #9
                  Originally posted by wkhanna
                  I hope to make it over to your place this weekend.
                  Crap! I have to go to work this weekend! Stupid work....
                  BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                  Comment

                  • PewterTA
                    Moderator
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 2901

                    #10
                    Michael, you know you're welcome over any weekday (evening).
                    Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                    -Dan

                    Comment

                    • Finleyville
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 350

                      #11
                      Originally posted by PewterTA
                      Michael, you know you're welcome over any weekday (evening).
                      And you know you are invited any day I am home this month to help us put in a new kitchen.....heehee. (...wait for the crickets.)
                      BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                      Comment

                      • wkhanna
                        Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 5673

                        #12
                        chirp..........chirp chip.........chirp..........chirp.......
                        _


                        Bill

                        Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                        ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                        FinleyAudio

                        Comment

                        • PewterTA
                          Moderator
                          • Nov 2004
                          • 2901

                          #13
                          I'm very good with a sledgehammer.....

                          Just saying!
                          Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                          -Dan

                          Comment

                          • PewterTA
                            Moderator
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 2901

                            #14
                            HiFi Tuning Fuse + NAD M51 = closer to listening nirvana.

                            The big things I noticed were a slight bit more realism to the sound stage (imaging and what not). What I would classify as micro dynamics got better. So something like my future wife Melody Gardot, her singing into the microphone on a couple of the live shows I have, I noticed a lot more "under her breath" type of talking. Like she's turned her head and said something to one of the band members. I even put the original fuse back and replayed just that part and could not hear the same thing. Put the HiFi Tuning fuse back in and there it was again. The upper end shimmers a little more too and feels like there is some weight to it. One of the bigger things I notice is the realism on brush work, there's a grain to the brush work that is so very real it's sort of chilling to hear it.

                            One of the cooler things though, was I replaced the fuses in my CA 840c and it now sounds VERY similar to how the NAD M51 was during stock. Though it still has the "more overly bright" upper end to it that I'm starting to realize I 'thought' I liked until I listen back to the NAD M51 and then I realize how "bright" it really is.

                            I also installed HiFi Tuning fuses in my Rotel RB-1090 and well... yeah there's an improvement there as well, but I'll save that for another thread or something else.

                            Anyways, I still stand behind my review that the NAD M51 is a pretty darn impressive DAC! Now I want a Total DAC............ since Jon raves about it. LOL
                            Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                            -Dan

                            Comment

                            • wkhanna
                              Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                              • Jan 2006
                              • 5673

                              #15
                              I had a chance Saturday to spend some time with Dan's M51 DAC.

                              Now while I can not deny that there is always an element of expectation bias that must be considered when auditioning a piece of equipment without the use of some form of blind testing or AB'ing one component against another, what I can honestly say is that what I heard was something V special.

                              We spent the better part of 5 continuous hours listening mostly to files I am V familiar with. During the entire afternoon & early evening, with the audition of each successive music file, the same phrase kept popping into my head. Hauntingly Smooth. As in the notes, all notes from both extremes to the V middle of the audible spectrum, were arriving at my ears with such ease as to constantly make me forget that my intent for being there was to judge. Instead, I was being constantly lured into the music, like a homesick seaman inescapably tempted by the sirens of Anthemusa. But unlike the Greek & Roman tales, the songs of these ethereal feathered maidens of NAD lead not to tragic end, but instead to a blissful paradise.

                              The authenticity of each note rang true, whether from V well mastered Hi-Res files flaunting DR #’s in the upper teens, to some not-so-well engineered material from the 70’s. With the not-so-good material I got the sense that the high frequency edginess typically associated with digital (even V good digital) was a tad bit more bearable. I am in no way suggesting that the NAD M51 is ‘forgiving’. Far from it. The level of detail, precision & clarity are stunning. Cymbal, snare & brushwork on percussion exceeded the previous realism displayed by the B&W 802di speakers. Yet it seemed there was less ‘crackle’ & & more tactile essence in that part of the frequency spectrum. It all just seemed more real while melding with the rest of the music rather than standing out from it.

                              Lower frequency reproduction was the best I have ever heard from Dan’s system. Full, with accurate timbre & textures. You could almost smell the wood of the double string bass. Yet its strength never seemed exaggerated or out of place.

                              One of my personal benchmarks for excellent performance is low-level accuracy, clarity & dynamics. The NAD M51 was stunning. Hauntingly so, actually. Haunting as in you kept looking around for instruments in the room.

                              After a few days to reflect on the audition, the NAD M51 displayed a natural ease at delivering both instruments & vocals at a level I have only heard on the V best ($) digital systems
                              Last edited by wkhanna; 28 January 2014, 07:55 Tuesday.
                              _


                              Bill

                              Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                              ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                              FinleyAudio

                              Comment

                              • JonMarsh
                                Mad Max Moderator
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 15261

                                #16
                                Uh, yup! that's why it's a Class A+ recommended component at Stereophile, and also here at HT Guide! :B :W
                                the AudioWorx
                                Natalie P
                                M8ta
                                Modula Neo DCC
                                Modula MT XE
                                Modula Xtreme
                                Isiris
                                Wavecor Ardent

                                SMJ
                                Minerva Monitor
                                Calliope
                                Ardent D

                                In Development...
                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                Obi-Wan
                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                Modula PWB
                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                Natalie P Ultra
                                Natalie P Supreme
                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                Comment

                                • jim1961
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2012
                                  • 357

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by wkhanna
                                  I had a chance Saturday to spend some time with Dan's M51 DAC.

                                  Now while I can not deny that there is always an element of expectation bias that must be considered when auditioning a piece of equipment without the use of some form of blind testing or AB'ing one component against another, what I can honestly say is that what I heard was something V special.

                                  We spent the better part of 5 continuous hours listening mostly to files I am V familiar with. During the entire afternoon & early evening, with the audition of each successive music file, the same phrase kept popping into my head. Hauntingly Smooth. As in the notes, all notes from both extremes to the V middle of the audible spectrum, were arriving at my ears with such ease as to constantly make me forget that my intent for being there was to judge. Instead, I was being constantly lured into the music, like a homesick seaman inescapably tempted by the sirens of Anthemusa. But unlike the Greek & Roman tales, the songs of these ethereal feathered maidens of NAD lead not to tragic end, but instead to a blissful paradise.

                                  The authenticity of each note rang true, whether from V well mastered Hi-Res files flaunting DR #’s in the upper teens, to some not-so-well engineered material from the 70’s. With the not-so-good material I got the sense that the high frequency edginess typically associated with digital (even V good digital) was a tad bit more bearable. I am in no way suggesting that the NAD M51 is ‘forgiving’. Far from it. The level of detail, precision & clarity are stunning. Cymbal, snare & brushwork on percussion exceeded the previous realism displayed by the B&W 802di speakers. Yet it seemed there was less ‘crackle’ & & more tactile essence in that part of the frequency spectrum. It all just seemed more real while melding with the rest of the music rather than standing out from it.

                                  Lower frequency reproduction was the best I have ever heard from Dan’s system. Full, with accurate timbre & textures. You could almost smell the wood of the double string bass. Yet its strength never seemed exaggerated or out of place.

                                  One of my personal benchmarks for excellent performance is low-level accuracy, clarity & dynamics. The NAD M51 was stunning. Hauntingly so, actually. Haunting as in you kept looking around for instruments in the room.

                                  After a few days to reflect on the audition, the NAD M51 displayed a natural ease at delivering both instruments & vocals at a level I have only heard on the V best ($) digital systems
                                  Excellent write up.

                                  I envy you guys that have neighbors/friends you can share stuff with. People of like mind that are driving distance that share in the music experience.

                                  I often feel I am at work on an island that nobody knows about. Its very rare I get informed opinions about my system, my music, or someone just to have a friendly drink with

                                  How something sounds and our impressions of it are in great measure a comparative experience IMO. What does this CD sound like over at Joe's house? What are his system strengths and weaknesses compared to mine? Which do I like better and why? I very much miss the opportunity to make these comparisons.

                                  On my threads where I describe what I am up to, often the question is asked: "How does it sound?". How many shades of good, great or excellent are there? Would any answer given have any meaning without a comparative benchmark?

                                  Given my brother has a NAD M51, I will do my own evaluation in time. I will see if the audible differences between the M51 and my Rega DAC are subtle or substantial. By the time I get there though, I wonder if some new and even more affordable product is on the horizon. One thing at a time
                                  Seek out and destroy early high gain room reflections

                                  Comment

                                  • JonMarsh
                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 15261

                                    #18
                                    Actually Bill, that was a nice thoughtful write up which captured a lot of the important characteristics, IMO. My somewhat flippant brief response was just a way to quickly acknowledge you before getting back to work wok!

                                    Jim, without a doubt, comparisons are tricky and alway should ideally reference some kind of specific objective standard, yet apart from those few rare times someone can compare playback to the life mic feeds, it can be very hard to make an assessment once you get to a certain level... OTOH, sometimes you find as pleasing as your past experience was, a new component just dials the focus AND naturalness up another notch, sometimes not a small one. I hope more products are released at that price point which can math the M51- I haven't by any means heard everything in that price range- my esteem for the M51 comes from comparing it against units that cost 2-3X as much. Authenticity and naturalness ring true if you have some experience listening to live acoustic music or working in a studio with different music types, and because of my past experience and when I did that kind of stuff with pro open reel tape, so my association is how much does it "sound" like that? Which was the most transparent media I had access to in the 70's, and which handily beats 1K DACs for natural sonics, no matter what the S/N spec and THD might be...
                                    the AudioWorx
                                    Natalie P
                                    M8ta
                                    Modula Neo DCC
                                    Modula MT XE
                                    Modula Xtreme
                                    Isiris
                                    Wavecor Ardent

                                    SMJ
                                    Minerva Monitor
                                    Calliope
                                    Ardent D

                                    In Development...
                                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                    Obi-Wan
                                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                    Modula PWB
                                    Calliope CC Supreme
                                    Natalie P Ultra
                                    Natalie P Supreme
                                    Janus BP1 Sub


                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                    Comment

                                    • wkhanna
                                      Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Jan 2006
                                      • 5673

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by The Maestro
                                      Actually Bill, that was a nice thoughtful write up which captured a lot of the important characteristics, IMO. My somewhat flippant brief response was just a way to quickly acknowledge you before getting back to work wok!
                                      Any recognition from you with your insane schedule is always greatly appreciated.
                                      Sometimes, flippant is apropos. ; )

                                      Originally posted by The Maestro
                                      ........Which was the most transparent media I had access to in the 70's, and which handily beats 1K DACs for natural sonics, no matter what the S/N spec and THD might be...
                                      Nice how you let us hang on that one!

                                      I will take the bait & say it may involve some mag tape......
                                      Last edited by wkhanna; 29 January 2014, 09:21 Wednesday.
                                      _


                                      Bill

                                      Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                      ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                      FinleyAudio

                                      Comment

                                      • PewterTA
                                        Moderator
                                        • Nov 2004
                                        • 2901

                                        #20
                                        So what you're saying Bill is you didn't like the NAD...... I mean that's what I'm hearing... and that I need to get rid of it and that you'll help take it off my hands.......


                                        *Yawn - shakes head* What was I saying again....

                                        The real test I think will be when we have the Audiophile get together meeting and can place the NAD and Schiit Gungnir side by side and switch between the two.

                                        I'm glad you liked it Bill... I think his greatest compliment came in the form where we were talking about my Media PC that I've finished up (Windows 2012 r2 Server with Paul Pang's USB 3 Card and Audiophile Optimizer utility), so the music was low enough that we could talk at normal volumes and Bill just stopped mid sentence and said he couldn't believe how amazing the bass sounded at such a low level, then he listened more and said the entire spectrum is represented so perfectly that it's just sort of amazing that it can play that low and that well.

                                        Anyone that wants to come over and hear it, the door is open and Beer is in the fridge.
                                        Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                        -Dan

                                        Comment

                                        • jim1961
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Nov 2012
                                          • 357

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by PewterTA
                                          So what you're saying Bill is you didn't like the NAD...... I mean that's what I'm hearing... and that I need to get rid of it and that you'll help take it off my hands.......


                                          *Yawn - shakes head* What was I saying again....

                                          The real test I think will be when we have the Audiophile get together meeting and can place the NAD and Schiit Gungnir side by side and switch between the two.

                                          I'm glad you liked it Bill... I think his greatest compliment came in the form where we were talking about my Media PC that I've finished up (Windows 2012 r2 Server with Paul Pang's USB 3 Card and Audiophile Optimizer utility), so the music was low enough that we could talk at normal volumes and Bill just stopped mid sentence and said he couldn't believe how amazing the bass sounded at such a low level, then he listened more and said the entire spectrum is represented so perfectly that it's just sort of amazing that it can play that low and that well.

                                          Anyone that wants to come over and hear it, the door is open and Beer is in the fridge.

                                          Digital Audio Nad

                                          -Dan


                                          Where do you call home if I may ask?
                                          Seek out and destroy early high gain room reflections

                                          Comment

                                          • JonMarsh
                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 15261

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by PewterTA
                                            So what you're saying Bill is you didn't like the NAD...... I mean that's what I'm hearing... and that I need to get rid of it and that you'll help take it off my hands.......


                                            *Yawn - shakes head* What was I saying again....
                                            This is what true friends are for, who will help alleviate your suffering by taking it on for himself... :W
                                            the AudioWorx
                                            Natalie P
                                            M8ta
                                            Modula Neo DCC
                                            Modula MT XE
                                            Modula Xtreme
                                            Isiris
                                            Wavecor Ardent

                                            SMJ
                                            Minerva Monitor
                                            Calliope
                                            Ardent D

                                            In Development...
                                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                            Obi-Wan
                                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                            Modula PWB
                                            Calliope CC Supreme
                                            Natalie P Ultra
                                            Natalie P Supreme
                                            Janus BP1 Sub


                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                            Comment

                                            • PewterTA
                                              Moderator
                                              • Nov 2004
                                              • 2901

                                              #23
                                              Bill is a True Friend! I will give him that! I end up having to upgrade a lot because of him... and he always takes the old stuff.

                                              I like that Jim!!! My Home is in South Park, PA.
                                              Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                              -Dan

                                              Comment

                                              • jim1961
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Nov 2012
                                                • 357

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by PewterTA
                                                Bill is a True Friend! I will give him that! I end up having to upgrade a lot because of him... and he always takes the old stuff.

                                                I like that Jim!!! My Home is in South Park, PA.
                                                1200 miles. No problem. See you in an hour :T
                                                Seek out and destroy early high gain room reflections

                                                Comment

                                                • Hdale85
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                  • 16075

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by PewterTA
                                                  So what you're saying Bill is you didn't like the NAD...... I mean that's what I'm hearing... and that I need to get rid of it and that you'll help take it off my hands.......


                                                  *Yawn - shakes head* What was I saying again....

                                                  The real test I think will be when we have the Audiophile get together meeting and can place the NAD and Schiit Gungnir side by side and switch between the two.

                                                  I'm glad you liked it Bill... I think his greatest compliment came in the form where we were talking about my Media PC that I've finished up (Windows 2012 r2 Server with Paul Pang's USB 3 Card and Audiophile Optimizer utility), so the music was low enough that we could talk at normal volumes and Bill just stopped mid sentence and said he couldn't believe how amazing the bass sounded at such a low level, then he listened more and said the entire spectrum is represented so perfectly that it's just sort of amazing that it can play that low and that well.

                                                  Anyone that wants to come over and hear it, the door is open and Beer is in the fridge.
                                                  And when is this get together? I could probably actually make it if it's not too far off lol.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • wkhanna
                                                    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                    • 5673

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Hdale85
                                                    And when is this get together?
                                                    Looks like it will be around the end of February at my place.
                                                    Everybody is welcome!
                                                    I will keep you posted.
                                                    _


                                                    Bill

                                                    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                    FinleyAudio

                                                    Comment

                                                    • PewterTA
                                                      Moderator
                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                      • 2901

                                                      #27
                                                      Jim, no problem, I got a spare bedroom, you're welcome to crash here so you don't have to drive back.

                                                      Tonight, I am listening to a very favorite album of mine, Dream Theater's - Images and Words. A few months ago I happened to stumble across this album that is a vinyl rip of the German Promo Album that a Radio company had and it has a very nice DR of 12 across the whole album. Which for a progressive rock band, is pretty impressive. Anyways, it's the best recording of the album I've heard to date and I know it very very well. Probably better than Dream Theater knows the album that's how much I've listened to it.

                                                      Well playing it through the NAD and my current setup has really brought this to a new level for me. It was to the point where I'd go back and re-listen to sections because I'd be like, I've never heard that before!!! So it was like listening to the album for the first time again...yet knowing every note and where it should be and surprised when there was bonus information!

                                                      Now I give a good bit of credit to the NAD (Thanks Jim for making me realize that Dan backwards is NAD - I honestly completely missed that) and the other part of the credit has to go to the music player. It's giving out some of the best 1s and 0s I've ever gotten out of any piece of hardware (and it's an old piece of junk - basically)...

                                                      So I have to say I'm VERY VERY happy with how things have turned out!

                                                      I'm still thinking I should try USB out to the NAD itself and install their drivers and see how things sound... I still haven't tried that!
                                                      Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                                      -Dan

                                                      Comment

                                                      • wkhanna
                                                        Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                        • Jan 2006
                                                        • 5673

                                                        #28
                                                        Jon, I just noticed your revised signature:

                                                        “Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...”

                                                        It got me thinking, and I was reminded of my favorite Dalek saying:

                                                        “Exterminate……jitter”

                                                        :assimilate:
                                                        Last edited by wkhanna; 31 January 2014, 12:29 Friday.
                                                        _


                                                        Bill

                                                        Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                        ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                        FinleyAudio

                                                        Comment

                                                        • JonMarsh
                                                          Mad Max Moderator
                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                          • 15261

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by wkhanna
                                                          Jon, I just noticed your revised signature:

                                                          “Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...”

                                                          I got me thinking, and I was reminded of my favorite Dalek saying:

                                                          “Exterminate……jitter”

                                                          :assimilate:
                                                          yes, that is a very important saying, too- and one I have not forgotten, but my limited capabilities for parallel processing have delayed working through and testing the jitter reduction tools! This is something that I hope will be remedied soon, but there is so much on the plate and so little spare time. Some progress on role normalization, I think we're making at least one offer very shortly- there is consensus on that. But as Willy the Shake would say, there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip... 8x)
                                                          the AudioWorx
                                                          Natalie P
                                                          M8ta
                                                          Modula Neo DCC
                                                          Modula MT XE
                                                          Modula Xtreme
                                                          Isiris
                                                          Wavecor Ardent

                                                          SMJ
                                                          Minerva Monitor
                                                          Calliope
                                                          Ardent D

                                                          In Development...
                                                          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                          Obi-Wan
                                                          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                          Modula PWB
                                                          Calliope CC Supreme
                                                          Natalie P Ultra
                                                          Natalie P Supreme
                                                          Janus BP1 Sub


                                                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Chris D
                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                            • Dec 2000
                                                            • 16877

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by wkhanna
                                                            Jon, I just noticed your revised signature:

                                                            “Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...”
                                                            :assimilate:
                                                            That's funny...
                                                            CHRIS

                                                            Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                            - Pleasantville

                                                            Comment

                                                            • jim1961
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Nov 2012
                                                              • 357

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by wkhanna
                                                              It got me thinking, and I was reminded of my favorite Dalek saying:

                                                              “Exterminate……jitter”

                                                              :assimilate:
                                                              My mantra could be “Exterminate……Early Room Reflections” :P
                                                              Seek out and destroy early high gain room reflections

                                                              Comment

                                                              • JonMarsh
                                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                                • Aug 2000
                                                                • 15261

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by jim1961
                                                                My mantra could be “Exterminate……Early Room Reflections” :P
                                                                Should be your signature, Jim!
                                                                the AudioWorx
                                                                Natalie P
                                                                M8ta
                                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                                Modula MT XE
                                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                                Isiris
                                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                                SMJ
                                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                                Calliope
                                                                Ardent D

                                                                In Development...
                                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                Obi-Wan
                                                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                Modula PWB
                                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                Comment

                                                                • wkhanna
                                                                  Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                                  • 5673

                                                                  #33
                                                                  jeez!!!!

                                                                  Now it is even harder to divide volts by amperes...er...ah....i mean resist.....

                                                                  link
                                                                  _


                                                                  Bill

                                                                  Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                  ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                  FinleyAudio

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Hdale85
                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                                    • 16075

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by wkhanna
                                                                    Looks like it will be around the end of February at my place.
                                                                    Everybody is welcome!
                                                                    I will keep you posted.
                                                                    Are you guys coordinating with Michael so he can participate? I'd love to hear his speakers.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • PewterTA
                                                                      Moderator
                                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                                      • 2901

                                                                      #35
                                                                      I'm sure Michael will be there, I'm not sure he'll bring his speakers though... They are a little big to haul around easily....
                                                                      Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                                                      -Dan

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Hdale85
                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                        • Jan 2006
                                                                        • 16075

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Well I may have to see about taking a trip to his house at some point then.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • PewterTA
                                                                          Moderator
                                                                          • Nov 2004
                                                                          • 2901

                                                                          #37
                                                                          I'll be bringing my 802Diamonds... don't tell Bill, it'll be a surprise! ha ha
                                                                          Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                                                          -Dan

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • wkhanna
                                                                            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                            • Jan 2006
                                                                            • 5673

                                                                            #38
                                                                            If you do, i'll sneak out & lag-bolt them to my floor from the basement while you guys are upstairs listening.
                                                                            _


                                                                            Bill

                                                                            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                            FinleyAudio

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Hdale85
                                                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                                                              • Jan 2006
                                                                              • 16075

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Lmao, and you say the Finalists are big to move?

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Dmantis
                                                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                • Jun 2004
                                                                                • 1036

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Excellent write up and thread. Great reading here.

                                                                                NAD products all of them are fantastic.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • JonMarsh
                                                                                  Mad Max Moderator
                                                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                                                  • 15261

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Dmantis
                                                                                  Excellent write up and thread. Great reading here.

                                                                                  NAD products all of them are fantastic.

                                                                                  Definitely value proposition leaders- I love my M50 music server!
                                                                                  the AudioWorx
                                                                                  Natalie P
                                                                                  M8ta
                                                                                  Modula Neo DCC
                                                                                  Modula MT XE
                                                                                  Modula Xtreme
                                                                                  Isiris
                                                                                  Wavecor Ardent

                                                                                  SMJ
                                                                                  Minerva Monitor
                                                                                  Calliope
                                                                                  Ardent D

                                                                                  In Development...
                                                                                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                                  Obi-Wan
                                                                                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                                  Modula PWB
                                                                                  Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                                  Natalie P Ultra
                                                                                  Natalie P Supreme
                                                                                  Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • PewterTA
                                                                                    Moderator
                                                                                    • Nov 2004
                                                                                    • 2901

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by Hdale85
                                                                                    Lmao, and you say the Finalists are big to move?
                                                                                    They are... I'm not having to move them. I have access to big vehicles if need be.

                                                                                    I do have to agree, I've been very impressed with the M51.... Makes me want to look at their amps now to consider them. I just wish I had an NAD retailer around.
                                                                                    Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                                                                    -Dan

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Hdale85
                                                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                      • Jan 2006
                                                                                      • 16075

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      One of the guys that I used to talk to that came to some of our little get together's had a NAD amp with his Paradigm speakers and ended up selling it because he was sensitive to the brightness it gave his speakers. I'm not sure about current stuff of course, he replaced it with an Emotiva XPA-2.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • PewterTA
                                                                                        Moderator
                                                                                        • Nov 2004
                                                                                        • 2901

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Well if I was going with NAD, I'd probably go with 2 Master Series Direct Digital Amplifiers if I was going to pick a NAD Amp.

                                                                                        I've heard the XPA-2 and it was not my thing... I thought it was a little too bright, so if that's the case then it could be that I wouldn't like NAD's amp.

                                                                                        But probably for the price of NAD's amp... I'd probably just use my hookup for Classe CA-M600... since I can't really find anything anyone has bad to say about the amp...just more if someone likes more of a warmer McIntosh type sound, or Brighter Krell like sound.

                                                                                        But whatever I do... might not be this year at all... so I'll happily stay with my RB-1090 especially now with it's upgrades I've done to it... much better amp than it once was.
                                                                                        Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                                                                        -Dan

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Finleyville
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Sep 2006
                                                                                          • 350

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          I am very sorry I couldn't make that audition with Billy. I was up to my ears in cabinetry.

                                                                                          @Hdale85. While my Finalists do not weigh as much as those B&W 802D's, they still are pretty hefty. I needed to make them larger than the standard design for my outdated Dayton drivers I used. Plus I am loathe to move them too much more. I am afraid my precious carbon fiber exterior will be damaged.
                                                                                          BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                                                                          Comment

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