Equalisers

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  • Dr C
    Member
    • Feb 2003
    • 86

    Equalisers

    Hi - I'm wondering if anyone could offer some advice on equalisers and other sound processors :

    1. I'm interested in an AudioControl Rialto 7 channel EQ. Anyone got one and how was it (or other Audiocontrol equipment)
    2. Anyone using BBE processing ? Does it affect your hifi ? (increased distortion, hiss etc) ?

    Thks for the comments - Dr C
  • David Meek
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 8938

    #2
    Hi Doc, justy wanted to say welcome to The Guide! I can't help you on the equalization issue - sorry. Hopefully, someone will chime in here momentarily. . . .

    What is BBE processing anyway?




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    • SiliGoose
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 942

      #3
      Isn't BBE some sort of enhancement system like SRS? If so, they are usually frowned upon in home audio.

      Tune your room, not the music. Equalizers are the dark side, IMO.




      -Sili
      www.campmurphy.net

      Comment

      • Rock Dog
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Jan 2003
        • 417

        #4
        My opinion on topics such as these has always been a little off the "Audiophile" norm. Such equipment is frowned upon in these circles. Which I find rather puzziling. If we all heard things the same way, there would be no need for so many manufacturers in the first place. Day in and day out we hear about how the real target is experiencing the music/recording as it was meant to be. That's not going to happen unless you can get the Boston Pops in your living room. That's the plain and simple truth. You're not going to hear what was being played in the studio, because there are so many variables. Mics, Mixing boards, cables, swithcboards, enhancers, compressors, eggcrate, foam, door knobs. You name it, it all has an effect. Then there are the many human factors. There's a big write up on the SACD release of Dark Side of the Moon. But instead of using Alan Parsons (who did the original 2 channel and quad mixes of this recording) Waters, Gilmore and the boys decided to use Guthrie, who was the engineer on so many of thier other projects. And I know that the whole idea of the release in SACD is to enhance the recordings using the new formats and technology. 5.1 channels instead of 2. But doesn't using Guthrie instead of Parson's skew the project right off the bat?

        Many musicians prefer a different set of equipment in the studio, as opposed to what they use for a live performance. So you won't hear what you are used to (the live sound) from their studio recording anyway. But the most important part of this equation is that no 2 people hear the same thing the same way. I spent the better part of my youth playing in rock bands. One stint had me in front of my guitarist's (Matt) dual Marshall stacks, for a period of at least 3 days a week, 2 hours a day. For 4 or 5 years. Not too mention that his amps "WENT TO ELEVEN" or so it seemed. There is no doubt in my mind that I have lost some of my mid range hearing. So I have always found frequency attenuation to be somewhat helpful to my hearing as much of the intended material as possible. That's not to say that I don't have my stuff set flat, I do. But if I could find a really nice EQ, one that would fit the quality, and performace of my current equipment, without putting a huge whole in my pocket book. It would be in my rack, for various reasons and situations.

        So with this I say. EQ's are not evil, they are not the anti-christ. They are merely another tool to help us achieve our ultimate goal. "Hearing" the sound reproduced, as closely as what was intended, for us. My brain, my ears, my room, my gear.




        -Thomas-

        The easiest way to find something lost around the house, is to buy a replacement.

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        -Thomas-

        As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it.

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        Comment

        • SiliGoose
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 942

          #5
          "Hearing" the sound reproduced, as closely as what was intended, for us.
          That's the contradiction EQ's so easily allow. They let "us" alter the intended sound. I don't have any idea what the original production crew intended...I'd much rather go as "natural" as possible. And certainly my listening room isn't perfect and yes, that alters the sound quite a bit but it's not via some artificial button mashing.
          That's the real evil of EQ's...it's too hard to avoid temptation to "tweak" it.




          -Sili
          www.campmurphy.net

          Comment

          • Robbie
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2000
            • 256

            #6
            Dr C

            I think what Sili is trying to say is the output from the CD is or should be flat, the output from your amp equipment should be flat, and your speakers should be flat. Therefore the only changes to the sound you hear comes from the environment your listening in.

            The reality is depending on the quality of each and your listening preferences the above may not make you happy. Ideally, no alteration of the music should take place. But if you think you need it try it. If your not enjoying what your hearing, you won't listen and toss the hobby. Ya can always sell the junk to someone on Ebay :P :P

            My .02

            YMMV

            Good Listening

            Robbie

            Comment

            • Dr C
              Member
              • Feb 2003
              • 86

              #7
              Hi all - thks for all the responses so far -it's been interesting.

              When I was younger, I used to dabble a lot with Pro Audio as I was running a mobile disco. As opposed to the audiophile norm of ensuring a signal that was as pure as possible, our aim was to reproduce sound having very high SPLs but it was clear and as accurate as can be.

              Accurate as can be for as Thomas "Rock Dog" correctly pointed out, there were obstacles to overcome (stage placement, barriers, height of room etc). Guess what ... the same things happen at my house. I'm obliged to site the TV at a certain location and the rest of my gear is more or less around the same place. Well at this location i tried a variety to subwoofer placements but I just wasn't at a room node and suffer from insufficient and muddy bass. I've now resorted to having another sub to fill up but this is less than ideal solution (since I'm thinking of upgrading to a REL sub and don't have the moolah to buy 2!).

              Enter my experiences with EQs. In those days (and now) I believe AudioControl make one of the finest EQs. I was surprised that they have 7 channel EQs especially for Home Theatre (read a review at [url]http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Reviews/Audiocontrol_2/

              Something like this would enable me to - beg, borrow or steal -a spectrum analyser to map out my room and use the EQ to make it sonically flat. To correct the room as Siligoose mentioned would be ideal but I suspect that no amount of tuning would cure it of all the ills.

              Even Pioneer's THX2 flagship VSA-AX10 has a mic attached that will automatically EQ the room. (Audiocontrol has a similar produst called the Richter scale which generates tones and allows one to correct bass deficiencies. There's also a top of the range THX2 Maestro which costs $10k but that's another story)

              So I was wondering if anyone had experienced Audiocontrol EQs (or maybe some other pro brands like Rane) as the info I have on their products is a bit dated.

              Appreciate the comments guys - keep 'em coming - Dr C

              Comment

              • David Meek
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 8938

                #8
                Doc,

                Have you run across the TacT room correction systems? Here's a link to their site: TacT Audio.

                Here's a link to their flagship room correction pre-amp, the RCS2.2X.

                It may not be what you are looking for, but it's interesting componentry nonetheless.




                David - HTGuide flunky
                Our "Theater"
                Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

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                David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                Comment

                • Bruce
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 156

                  #9
                  Doc,

                  I think since it's the sub you're having problems with why not just use an EQ on the sub out channel?

                  Something like a Behringer BFD 1124P (a stereo unit) would do the trick for a very few dollars, i.e. you could experiment rather cheaply, <$130.

                  Note, the Behringer does run the bass source signal through a ADC-DAC cycle so it can do the EQ in the digital domain, but even with high quality speakers I'm not able to tell the difference. The elimination of the boomy bass peaks is well worth the exercise.

                  Here is some info on how others have worked bass magic with the Behringer.

                  Parametric EQ




                  Bruce
                  ____________________________________________
                  Bruce

                  Comment

                  • Dr C
                    Member
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 86

                    #10
                    Excellent comments guys. I've heard of TaCT but realised that their solution does require a fair amount of cash ops: The Behringer option was right up the alley and it looks like a probability of 99.9% that I'll get it within the next 1-2 days Many thks David and Bruce

                    I'll try it out with the sub initially and wonder if anyone out there has used it for other spkrs (center channel perhaps ?) I'm thinking of getting B&W604s for the fronts and an LCR600 for the centre.

                    Comment

                    • Bruce
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 156

                      #11
                      Comments I've heard, because I've never used it on anything but subs.

                      The S/N ratio and noise is not ideal for using it on anything but bass frequencies. Remember, it redigitizes the signal.

                      Just my understanding.




                      Bruce
                      ____________________________________________
                      Bruce

                      Comment

                      • sfdoddsy
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2000
                        • 496

                        #12
                        I've used EQs for bass and full range for a few years now and am a fan, in fact my current speakers depend on it. If you just want to EQ your sub, you can't get much better than the BFD. If you want to do your whole system, the choices are rather more difficult and possibly expensive. It would also depend to a large degree how your system is setup.

                        The first thing you should do is measure your system and find out just what is happening. There are a couple of free demo versions of very good measuring programs available on the Net. Try www.spectraplus.com and www.etfacoustics.com. All you need is a mic and a computer soundcard, and while something like the Behringer ECM 8000 mic would be good, you can simply use the Radio Shack SPL meter.

                        There is a very good article about room EQ using tools like these at www.tagmclaren.com , check in the VIP club and you should find it.

                        I would feel a bit leery about using the cheaper Audiocontrol products as they are graphic EQs and probably not precise enough to be really useful.

                        The new generation of digital crossovers/EQs would be more the ticket, depending on how you feel about redigitizing the signal. Behringer has new model called the DCX2496 which can be configured as a three channel PEQ for fronts and center with a huge choice of bands, and it only costs $350.

                        The benefits to doing your surrounds would probably be smaller.

                        Cheers

                        Steve




                        Steve's DIY Dipoles
                        Steve's OB Journey

                        Comment

                        • Bruce
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 156

                          #13
                          Steve,
                          There is a very good article about room EQ using tools like these at www.tagmclaren.com , check in the VIP club and you should find it.
                          Thanks!!
                          Great resource, it should be required reading for everybody who wants to understand and optimize bass propagation and standing waves in their HT listening rooms.




                          Bruce
                          ____________________________________________
                          Bruce

                          Comment

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