Can the DEQ2496 sound like a BBE Sonic Maximizer?

[RandyMidd]

I like what the BBE Sonic Maximizer does for music.
Now that I'm getting near completing my subs, I'll be using a DEQ2496 in line with the LFE out on my receiver....and my BBE processor will only be available for my mains :cry: . Can the DEQ simulate what the BBE does? If not I may buy the BBE plugin version....that'll at least take care of my ripped music....or a second BBE.

[Jack Gilvey]

The DEQ is an Eq...what does the BBE do?

[joetama]

Honestly working with the 2496 and the 8024 from Behringer I have a low standard for them. Their products are great for the price, but still are nothing to get excited about. I think you might be better with the BBE. What exactly are you using this for BTW?

[ThomasW]

The DEQ is an Eq...what does the BBE do?

Primarily it's a 'dynamic range' expander. They were great in the days of cassette or vinyl, or if someone had 'garage' or underground/boot-leg recordings that were overly compressed.

They must be use with great care with digital material.

To Randy,

DEQ has an expansion function. I haven't played with that function so don't have a clue if it's worthwhile. I doubt that it's on par with those of the BBE. But I question the need for the BBE for a sub.

[HeatMiser]

My understanding of the BBE is that it also messes with the phase/delay dependent on frequency, ostensibly in order to compensate for what BBE sees as a consistent problem with speakers and crossovers progressively delaying high frequencies more and more as compared to the lower ones. So they suggest it's some kind of "electronic phase alignment" tool, elbeit one not aimed at any particular speaker setup. And yes, they also have expander circuits in high and low bands to add "impact" (or maybe that part is just a fancy Loudness button, if you're more cynical).

I'd also question the usefulness on just a sub. I bet you can dial in just what you need using the BBE on your mains, and if necessary adjusting the level of your sub in the usual way to match.

[RandyMidd]

...what does the BBE do?

The Cakewalk site has a good description :

My Personal Experience
I suspect there's a lot of people that have never heard a BBE Sonic Maximizer. I ended up with it in the early 80's because my wife liked shiny black speakers...these speakers didn't sound as good as another speaker set I was auditioning that weren't as pretty... but when either set was played through the BBE they were both better and really close.

I've never owned high end speakers so I don't know if the Sonic Maximizer effect will be as great...or there at all, but I can tell you it totally changes my speakers...people have described it like lifting blankets off of theirs...taking pillows out of the drivers...I don't want to hype this too much so I'll spare you from words like "sparkle" and stop here...there's user reviews on the net.

I've casually played with the Wave plugins and others...I've not done an exhaustive search but I've found nothing else that improves everything you play through it like the BBE.

My BBE is three generations old now...so I don't know about the new ones (I will soon enough because I ordered another one) but it's not real picky where you set it...you can overdo it...but you don''t need to tweak it (although you can) for every track for it to sound (way) better than without it. It works very well with CDs. Everything from crappy early CD's made with LP masters to the good, late remastered stuff. Excellent sound improvement for movies too.

Right now it's hooked up to some old speakers that ususally reside in my office...Bose 301s with 365 watts available to each....I'm not going to say it's fantastic because it's not...but without the BBE the sound is utterly crappy by comparison.

What does it do?

The manufacturer holds patents on the process and licenses it's use. I have a TV with a BBE logo on it...the voices are more defined, it's easier to understand people talking.

In the manufacturer's description on their website they slam exciters and enhancers...sort of...then go on to say...
BBE High Definition Sound technology is not an effect, but restructures the signal in such a way which allows speakers to more correctly and faithfully reproduce the signal. The best analogy for BBE technology is like eyeglasses for your audio system.

A little coy...looking around the web I found this by a user...

"BBE's Sonic Maximizer has a low-pass filter feeding a compressor for bass management. Typically, these "sonic maximizers" have to do something with the mid-range and high-frequency response, as well, to stop the entire tone from being 'dead' as a result of what they've done w/ the bass. So they, many times, phase shift the upper-midrange (think the "surround sound" on the older boom boxes) and cross-feed that between channels. This makes the tone "bigger" and "wider" as they're mucking with your spatial queues and changing their phase on the way...
BBE, adds one other neat little factor in their box. They put a high-pass filter in the box centered at about 5kHz, or so. They then run the output of this into an 'expander' circuit. The expander is there for the sole purpose of "reducing" the noise present in the high-frequency band ONLY allowing the signal through. This has the direct effect of removing the upper-harmonic "grunge" that sometimes exists thus increasing overall "clarity" of the high-end. Pretty smart of those folks."

I know this post is getting long but good info was hard to find on this subject...
This post is from 2002 & someone who modeled the plugin version for BBE...

1. While the sonic maximizer has a large linear range, it is not
completely linear. If you haven't found the nonlinearity, you haven't
looked very hard. The magnitude response of the system will change under
certain circumstances. I'll leave it to any interested parties to discover
this on their own. (And I'm not talking about clipping)

2. The phase response/group delay is a critical factor. When modeling
the process, I had to be very exacting in both magnitude and phase response
in order to get the buy-off from BBE. Look at the phase response - better
yet, the group delay - and you will see that the claims regarding larger
amounts of delay at low frequencies to be precisely true. It is not a
linear phase filter as some have suggested. The phase curve is a nearly perfect logarithmic function vs. frequency. If you choose tomeasure the phase, be careful to factor out the linear phase (constant delay) component which, in all plugins, is a result of the integer sample delay through the processing path.

3. There is no fraud, either on BBE's part, or Virsonix part. Take your
favorite EQ (parametric, graphic, linear phase FIR) and try your best to
achieve the same magnitude response. With a good parametric, you probably
can get pretty close. Now examine your phase response. For the average
parametric or graphic, the phase will be a real mess, for a linear phase
FIR, it will -of course - be linear (ie. constant delay at all frequencies).
And you still haven't got the nonlinear aspect. The product works as advertised, and you cannot achieve the same result using the "free" EQ that you already have.

4. There is no accounting for taste. Many people love the product. It is
widely used on recordings and live performances. There are others who hate
the effect. Cakewalk has commented that he plugin has been one of, if not
the, top selling plugin that they distribute. We continually recieve email
from customers, often professionals, who rave about the product, and
invaribly make comments such as "Nothing else I have tried can give me the
sound that I get from the Sonic Maximier". I contend that, even if it were
just a "loudness curve" plugin (which is a falsehood that I hopefully have
dispelled in my previous comments), then the popularity alone demonstrates
the need for such a plugin in the market. No one is being conned, cheated,
or defrauded. If you like the result, and you can't get the result with the
existing equipment/plugins that you already have, then it is worth paying
for.
If you don't like the result, don't buy it. I invite anyone
interested to download the free demo at (dead link).

As I said before, I did not invent the BBE process. You can read all the
gory details in any of the many patents held by BBE. It is likely in the
near future that Virsonix will transition the plugin product completely to
BBE, so we can concentrate on other endeavors. Since my "stake" in the
Sonic Maximizer is coming to an end, it really doesn't matter to me whether
people like it or don't like it. I simply could not sit and read this
thread without providing the facts - mingled with my own capitalist opinions
of course.

There used to be a free trial period for the plugin...can't find it on the net anymore.

[ThomasW]

There used to be a free trial period for the plugin...can't find it on the net anymore.

Here ya go ..... :T

http://web.archive.org/web/20020726184800/http://www.virsonix.com/

[Jack Gilvey]

Ok...I've read about the process for years, and have tried the guitar pedal, and figured it was more than eq.

[RandyMidd]

What exactly are you using this for BTW?

Music playback mostly..lossless ripped stuff and CDs.

... I question the need for the BBE for a sub.

I went ahead and bought another one if for no other reason than mine was old and the BBE site said it was time to upgrade.
I'll use it on the mains and try my old one on the subs and see what / if it does anything good to them.

[RandyMidd]

Another testomial to the magic of the BBE processor...

Lastnight I visited a friend and listened to his Dayton BR1's powered by a Pioneer 1016...my 301's sound better and I'm still using the old BBE processor.

It's a little unfair though because I have a lot more power available...but the BBE and the amp improve things in different ways and I'm guestimating that the 301's may hold a slight subjective advantage without the amp.

If I had to choose between the BBE or the big amp, I'd choose the BBE.

Eventually, I'll get him to bring his BR1's over and do a more fair AB comparison and report what the BBE can do for the BR1's.

[ThomasW]

I have a lot of old radio programs burned to disc, so it's ability to impact MP3 interests me.

Now that I found a link to the trial version I've downloaded it and will give it a try.

[RandyMidd]

I downloaded it too...haven't installed it yet though...I figured I can take the plugin over to my brother's place and see what it can do for him...I think I'll see some surprised faces showing this off.