Maggie 3.7s + tri center + NAD: looking for real listening experience

[beaverlake]

Please - no non-empirical opinions; I'm looking for comments from Maggie owners who use their speakers for both music listening AND HT use.

I'm looking to replace my B&W 803s/HTM2 + Musical Fidelity XP-200s (3 x ea bridged) with Maggie 3.7s + Tri-center powered by NAD amps. Pre is a Meridian G61r. Sub is a Paradigm Seismic 12. I'm going to do an extended listening session in stereo next week but my concern is loosing the "impact" of cone speakers on music (mandolin plucks, kick drums, etc. - ya'll will know what I mean).

My room is 17 x 18 w/8' ceilings, just this side of acoustically dead (slight echo on hand clap). With a SIM LED projector we use the room for a lot of TV and I watch/listen to a lot of concert DVD and Bluray (Oppo BD93). I'm just now getting the time to go back and listen to CD music with plans to download more HiDef audio. I've got my whole CD library in uncompressed Apple and plan to use my Apple TV to stream auto into the Meridian.

I'm fortunate to have the foundation and the funds to make the replacement (old gear will go up on Audiogon). That said, and realizing that I have to trust my own ears, I'm interested in comments from Maggie owners who use their speakers for both audio AND HT.

Thanks in advance,
gordon

[Burke Strickland]

I have been using a pair of Magnepan MG3.6 speakers as my stereo pair for music and as the front left and right speakers in a 5.1 HT configuration. The other speakers are a Magnepan CC3 center speaker and Magnepan MG1.6 speakers for the left and right surround channels. The subwoofer is a BagEnd Infra-12. The front three channels are each powered by a Bryston 7B SST monoblock, and the rear two channels are powered by a BEL 1001 Mk V stereo amplifier. (The sub has a built-in amp.)

I have used a Bryston SP-2 pre/pro at the front end, which sounds terrific, but has a painfully clunky user interface, although I am currently using a Sony receiver -- preamp/processor section only, as front end to the external power amps -- while the Bryston pre/pro is waiting to be repaired. (The Sony receiver does have the convenience advantage of HDMI connectivity which Bryston promised as a future enhancement when I bought the SP-2 but never got around offering for that model. If I ever spend $10k+ for a pre/pro, it will not be the Bryston SP-3.) My universal player is an Oppo BDP-83SE, and for music, I am using its special analog two channel outputs (with "direct analog" mode on the receiver).

I am quite pleased with the musicality, definition, impact (including but not limited to mandolin plucks, kick drums, etc. - I do know what you mean) and life-like dimensionality of the front Magnepan speakers with music, and enjoy the transparency, accuracy and depth of sound the whole Maggie setup + sub provides on movie soundtracks as well as on music.

I had originally set up my home theater with Definitive Technology speakers all around and brought in the Magnepan MG3.6 speakers for music only. But my dealer suggested I try the Maggies for the front channels, and the results were a revelation. It took a couple of years to swing the total conversion, but the enjoyment factor using all-Maggie speakers (and beefing up the amplification, moving the BEL amp from the front to the back and retiring an Acurus 3x100 amp that had been handling the other three channels) has made it worth the effort and the investment.

For what it's worth, my room is 16 feet by 18 feet with a cathedral ceiling 8 feet from the floor at the walls and 12 feet high at the center ridge peak. Slight echo with hand clap pretty well describes the acoustics. My Panasonic PT-AE4000U projects onto a fixed mount 120 inch 16:9 diagonal DaLite Hi Power screen. I do not watch television, using the projector exclusively for movies on DVD and BluRay.

Hope that helps.

[beaverlake]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. With my sweetheart's blessing, this weekend I pulled the trigger on a complete Maggie front end. My room is 17 x 18 x 8 with a very slight hand clap echo. I'll keep my Paradigm Seismic 12, B&W ceiling mounts for surrounds (with a 125 wpc Rotel), and my Meridian G61R. For the front I'm going the (almost) full-monty - 2 x 3.7s, 2 x DWM panels, and the MMC2/CCR tri-center powered by a NAD Masters M-25. I'll run one channel to each panel (for a 9-channel system). With the Meridian I'll stick with my Oppo BD-93, Wadia iPad dock, and AppleTV for streaming uncompressed and/or hi-res music. I've had tremendous response to selling my B&Ws and one of my Musical Fidelity amps.

With lead-times, work travel and an upcoming vacation I would be up and running until mid-April and broken in until the end of the month but I am STOKED!!! We've been very fortunate of late and with a killer Q4 (I'm in sales) I felt the time was right.

Since this seems to be a fairly "large" Maggie installation I'll probably post some reviews in various forums (forae?) in early May. Thanks again for the feedback. I know I need to trust my own ears, but it's nice to learn I'm not alone in wanting the best for both music AND movies.

gordon

[beaverlake]

Well - time for truth or dare. I'm going planar...

I've sold off the 803s and HTM3 and the MuFi XP200s. Week after next I'm getting a "wall of polyester" - 2 x Maggie 3.7s, Tri Center (2 x MMC2 + CCR), and 2 x DWM bass panels all powered by a NAD M-25. I'll have one channel of amplification for each of the seven panels. I'm keeping my B&W in-ceiling surrounds/Rotel combo and my Paradigm Seismic 12. In for a penny, in for a pound. Go big or go home. Pick your phrase.

I've been on the periphery of Maggies for about 3 years, ever since I heard the "early, prerelease" demo of the Maggie DWMs and ??? panels at a "Sound Matters" put on by the local dealer in Seattle. My concern was always the "head in a vice" sweet spot issue. With the advent of the tri-center that shouldn't be an issue. And if it is, I can return all the kit and start over again with a store credit - and with the brands available I'm not too worried.

Again - thanks for the input. The consistent message in the three forums in which I posted was effectively "start with the speakers". The Maggies raised the hair on the back of my neck during that 20-minute demo and I haven't forgotten it. Now I get to see if the marvels of Mylar are going to work for me in my room.

All the best,
gordon

[Chris D]

Nice, gordon! :T Flat panel speakers like planar, if done right, really can shine. The best speakers I've ever personally heard, in a controlled, critical listening evironment, were Martin Logan flagship CLX's. I'd love to go transform my setup, but it'd have to start with the $25,000 CLX's. I actually considered it a few years ago, but had to say no.

[John Holmes]

Sounds like a good plan. Let us know how it turns out.

[beaverlake]

I will follow up. The NAD is in town and the Maggies ship early next week. The current plan is to hook up all the electronics and speakers, put a CD on the Oppo and loop it for the 2.5 weeks that I'm traveling (1 week business, 1.5 weeks vacation). When I get back our sales guy will come over to work on speaker placement, speaker level setting, re-run the Meridian room correction etc. So I should be having a "launch" party with some friends the weekend of April 12-14! I'll do a write up about a week later and include some photos of the "polyester place"/"mylar mansion". I'm so excited I actually ordered a Blu-ray of The Silver Flute! (Thought I'd expand my musical horizons now that I'll have speakers that (apparently) excel at music like opera.)

gordon

[JeremyG]

I'm excited to hear how the Maggies turn out. I'm on the cusp of deciding on going after some 1.7s, myself. With the wife's blessing, of course.

[beaverlake]

I finally have a few minutes for an update. I set up the NAD seven channels with one channel connected to each panel. The sound was much better than I expected, but even with the power ratings of 165W continuous into 4 ohms and bursts close to 400w, the NAD couldn't carry a sustained low 90dB level so I'm moving to a McIntosh MC8207. I tested the amp over the weekend and even though I get the occassional "red light clipping blips" (you'll have to read the MC8207 data sheets) - the amp performed really well and the "Mac sound" is a good match for the Maggies. Along the way I moved from the Paradigm Seismic 12 to the Paradigm SUB1.

I'll post a more detailed review and some photos soon.

gordon

[JeremyG]

Very cool!!!

Glad to know you like them. I wonder why your output levels were that low. I just verified that my two 1.7s hit 94db at my couch with music playing, with no sub, before I say, "TOO MUCH!!!" I'm running an Emotiva UPA-2 that's 185 per channel at four ohms. Interesting. Size difference in the panels? I sure would like to hear your thoughts on the 3.7s, with their honest to goodness ribbons and larger size than mine. Not that Momma would even consider letting me upgrade...

[beaverlake]

B&W Replacement Complete

Update on our B&W 803s Replacement:

It's been a while since I posted - to recap I replaced B&W 803s/HTM-3s/Musical Fidelity XP200 x 3 with Maggies and a NAD M25 (more on that later). The front end of our HT now consists of 2 x DWMs + 2 x 3.7s with a CCR + 2 x MMC2 (non-motorized) for a tri-center set up. I've included a few photos, listening notes, and comments from Wendell Diller who visited me yesterday to check out the installation. Sources include an Opp BDP93, Comcast DVR, Wadia iPad base, XBox, and AppleTV. Control is through a Meridian G61r + HD621 combo. During the process I replaced my Paradigm Seismic 12 (which integrated very well) with a Paradigm SUB1 (which adds an increased amount of musicality plus lower reach for HT LFE). Our HT has 14' wide u-shaped sectional as the listening position and the 3.7s are in a triangle of about 12 feet apart and from the listening position.

Notes:
1. The system is set up per Magnepan instructions and the NAD M25 is set up with one amp channel per panel. Note that I am returning the M25 to my dealer here in Seattle and replacing it with a Mac MC8207 - still one panel per channel. When a source is really well recorded/mixed and is an excellent performance the tendency I've found with Maggies is to turn up the volume. I know extended listening in the low 90dB level (at the listening position) isn't good for one's hearing, I just can't resist increasing the volume on some material. The NAD just couldn't sustain that level (the tri-center is really a 3-ohm load). The dealer was supportive enough to loan me an MC207 for a weekend and although I on some material the Mac "red lights" flickered off and on, the amp kept up. As a side note after the weekend I can say that for my ears the "Mac sound" and Maggies are a good fit.

2. Our guests vary from "interested in music/movies" to music lovers to music performers - everyone has commented on the level of detail they are able to hear. This was often with their own source material. I can confirm that poorly recorded/mixed/mastered content sounds really bad on this system. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

3. Although Wedell's time here was brief (he had to get to Portland OR), he provided additional input for my sales rep from Definitive to use for some adjustments and the additional tweaks paid off. At least during the time he was here it was clear that Wendell doesn't crank the volume as high as I do (hey - I'm nearing retirement and I have tinnitus). What was clear is that properly set up, there weren't any discontinuities in the soundstage resulting from the tri-center. The additional layering and depth was noticeable when comparing stereo with Dolby Pro Logic Movies (the setting Wendell has typically used) and with Meridian Trifield. The lack of center "collapse" from side to side was very noticeable comparing stereo to tri-center. For movies the audio is seamless including wrapping to a pair of second model from the top B&W 8" ceiling speakers (powered by a 125 wpc Rotel stereo amp). We have the CCR and MMC2s at the same output levels from the amp and the center channel is at the same level as the 3.7s. The MMC2s do a good job of pulling the sound "up into the screen". Wendell noted that he prefers to use classical music in Dolby (or now Trifield) for checking out the tri-center set up since classical music isn't typically close-miked and therefore the width and depth of the soundstage are more dependent on the speakers' ability to reproduce the soundstage rather than having the sound engineer/mixer make these determinations as they might well do with jazz, rock, etc..

4. With 2 x 3.7s + 2 x DWMs the mid-bass slam is incredible. Combining Maggies' quickness with the additional surface area is very effective. I haven't heard 20.1s, but with even more "bass panel area" the sound must be awesome. We're crossing over the system to the sub at about 55Hz. When the Mac arrives and we replace the NAD we're also going to rewire and put the sub into the system full-time. Right now, following Wendell's suggestions (the logic of which I now understand), the sub is only active on multi-channel material and not during any two-channel listening (including Dolby or Trifield). I want to have the sub engaged and contributing for all music.

5. Although I mentioned the urge to crank up the volume, I'm actually finding that I'm listening at lower levels, particularly with highly dynamic material. The reason, I think, is that I can hear so much more detail at lower levels that I don't need to constantly fiddle with the volume control or listen at higher levels in order to hear the low-level detail.

6. I have added Magnepan-supplied wall treatement behind the center and the two MMC2s (1/2 inch material wrapped in Magnepan-supplied cloth). I'm running with NO resistors, only jumpers and the overall system sound is very balanced, especially with the Mac.

7. No surprise here - there is a lot of really poorly recorded/mixed music out there. That being said, even Pandora at the premium 192kbps streaming level sounds amazingly good.

8. I invested in Mye stands for the 3.7s. I notice improved coherence and slightly tighter bass. So did my sales rep - and he has two pairs of Maggies at home connected to two separate systems. I chose the "stealth" stands with no foot extension in front of the speakers. I used some leftover cabinetry wood as a platform, then went to Pier One and purchased two black suede pillows. I removed the stuffing, then put a heavy duty plastic bag in as a liner and filled each one with 60# of builders sand. It looks good and combined with the spiked feet from Mye the speakers are rock-solid.

In closing I'll dispense with the "reviewer hyperbole"; the system works extremely well for Redbook CDs, lossless streaming from my iTouch, DVD/Blu-ray concerts, and movies. Based on my dealer listening sessions, attendance at several "Music Matters" type events, and input from others I will state that as a multi-channel system with a total cost of approximately $30K, I have not heard a system that costs less than $100K that sounds any better (e.g., Wilson/ARC, Mac/Mac, Meridian, Sonus/Mac, Focal/Parasound, etc.). So although this is not an inexpensive system, for me/us it is extremely high value.

[Chris D]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! That's simply awesome! :banana:

[madmac]

Are those electrostatic speakers?

[beaverlake]

Are those electrostatic speakers?

Magnepans are ribbon and/or planar magnetic. www.magnepan.com.

[JeremyG]

Very cool looking!!! Your colors all match very well. Going to check those stands out. I like how the feet don't extend out past the front of the panels.

[John Holmes]

Glad its all coming together. Very nice room!