Which Receiver for Home Theater

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  • ClosetSciFiGeek
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 247

    Which Receiver for Home Theater

    I am really tired of waiting for the UMC-1 from Emotiva. I know they are "on their way", but I am starting to court the idea of driving my UPA-7 with a receiver. Here are some of the deals and ideas I have. I would like your opinions on these or others. In alphabetical order just because:

    Denon AVR-990($1069)-has BurrBrown and Wolfson Dacs and ethernet connection and USB connection

    Marantz SR5004($680)-has Pro Logic IIz and Marantz has always made nice stuff

    Onkyo TX-SR707($520)-pretty basic, but has the pre-outs I would need and side benefit of lots of HDMI inputs(that I don't really need either)

    Onkyo TX-NR807($757)-ehternet input and lots of HDMI inputs

    Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH($579)-iPhone controllable and preamp outs

    Yamaha RX-V665($319)-really basic, but has hdmi inputs and preamp outs

    Yamaha RX-V3900BL($1299)-ethernet input and lots of bells and whistles

    I listen two channel about 25% and movies 75%. I have ZDT3.5's L/R/C and Emotive ERD-1 surroundsx4. I want hdmi inputs and upconversion to 1080P. Please give me your fully biased opinions based on your experience.
    "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
    -Hyman G. Rickover
  • wettou
    Ultra Senior Member
    • May 2006
    • 3389

    #2
    Originally posted by ClosetSciFiGeek
    I am really tired of waiting for the UMC-1 from Emotiva. I know they are "on their way", but I am starting to court the idea of driving my UPA-7 with a receiver. Here are some of the deals and ideas I have. I would like your opinions on these or others. In alphabetical order just because:

    Denon AVR-990($1069)-has BurrBrown and Wolfson Dacs and ethernet connection and USB connection

    Marantz SR5004($680)-has Pro Logic IIz and Marantz has always made nice stuff

    Onkyo TX-SR707($520)-pretty basic, but has the pre-outs I would need and side benefit of lots of HDMI inputs(that I don't really need either)

    Onkyo TX-NR807($757)-ehternet input and lots of HDMI inputs

    Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH($579)-iPhone controllable and preamp outs

    Yamaha RX-V665($319)-really basic, but has hdmi inputs and preamp outs

    Yamaha RX-V3900BL($1299)-ethernet input and lots of bells and whistles

    I listen two channel about 25% and movies 75%. I have ZDT3.5's L/R/C and Emotive ERD-1 surroundsx4. I want hdmi inputs and upconversion to 1080P. Please give me your fully biased opinions based on your experience.
    I would pick Yamaha and Marantz

    Yamaha make instruments, piano, guitar.... great engineering as well

    I would stay away from Denon and Pioneer lots of problems and poor customer service
    Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

    Comment

    • Kevin D
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Oct 2002
      • 4601

      #3
      Stay away from any Yamaha ending in 65. Yamaha completely redesigned their lower end line this year and added so many issues, cheapness, and connection goofs we had to give up. They screwed us so much we ditched them and went to only selling Pioneer. Even after a few firmware updates to make them work like the older Yamaha's, it's still patches to a poorly designed product.

      I would recommend Rotel to you, but you seem to be into a lot of bells and whistles which Rotel will not have.

      Kevin D.

      Comment

      • ClosetSciFiGeek
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 247

        #4
        Thanks for the recommendations. That is too bad about the RX-V*65's. I have had two Yamaha receivers in the past that I liked very much. One is now on permanent garage duty. The deal on the RX-V3900 seemed really good, though it is one of the most expensive on my list. The Onkyo TX-NR807 is a little less money and has a lot of bells and whistles anybody know about it's preamp section(sound good or no when sent to an outboard amp?).
        "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
        -Hyman G. Rickover

        Comment

        • 1oldguy
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2008
          • 459

          #5
          Wondering about the RSP-1570 from Rotel.Are there any known issues with this unit?Or would it be better to move up in the line?
          A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.

          Comment

          • Sharp 1080
            Member
            • Dec 2009
            • 99

            #6
            Never had an issue with Denon or Pioneer

            I've owned 4 different pieces of equipment from both manufacturers. Denon (audio) and Pioneer Elite (video). I'm presently using a Denon 3808 as a seperate pre/pro. My old Denon receiver was even able to run 5 Martin Logan Electrostatics running @ 4ohms off of it! Wettou, can you list documented examples of "poor customer service"? Never had an issue with their electronics. Yamaha makes motorcycles also, MotoGP champions 2009 :B

            Comment

            • ClosetSciFiGeek
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2009
              • 247

              #7
              Thanks for your input

              After receiving an Emotiva ERC-1 from my wife for Christmas I think I will just sit on my hands(and wallet) and continue to wait for Emotiva to release the UMC-1. Just getting a little miffed, but their equipment really is so good and properly priced that after enjoying the music I am sated for a while and will continue to wait. After all they are a small company and developing a new product this complex must be trying and time consuming. I trust it will live up to their other product's legacies.
              "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
              -Hyman G. Rickover

              Comment

              • 1oldguy
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 459

                #8
                I have heard that the RSP-1570 from Rotel is 2500 Canadian.That seems a tad on the high side.Perhaps someone in the know could chime in the proper Canadian List on this unit?
                A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.

                Comment

                • Hammie
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 304

                  #9
                  Originally posted by ClosetSciFiGeek
                  After receiving an Emotiva ERC-1 from my wife for Christmas I think I will just sit on my hands(and wallet) and continue to wait for Emotiva to release the UMC-1. Just getting a little miffed, but their equipment really is so good and properly priced that after enjoying the music I am sated for a while and will continue to wait. After all they are a small company and developing a new product this complex must be trying and time consuming. I trust it will live up to their other product's legacies.
                  Congrats on the CD player. I currently have a Denon 3808 that I very happy with. The only pre=pro I am considering is the Emotiva XMC-1. I have the XPA-5 amp and feel it is a really great amp.

                  I'm waiting on the final specs to make my decision on the XMC-1. There a few things I like about the Denon I must have. One being web access to control it. I often control the volume from other rooms from my laptop. I'm hoping the XMC-1 will have this capability via its Ethernet port.

                  The other is native DSD over HDMI support for my SA-CD collection.
                  Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                  Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                  Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                  Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                  B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                  Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                  My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                  Next Upgrade: Cables

                  Comment

                  • ClosetSciFiGeek
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 247

                    #10
                    Sounds like a great setup. I would have done the XMC-1 when it is released, but I have the UPA-7 which unlike your XPA-5 doesn't support the balanced inputs. Didn't know you could control cd players that way i will have to look into it.
                    "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
                    -Hyman G. Rickover

                    Comment

                    • 1oldguy
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 459

                      #11
                      Originally posted by 1oldguy
                      Wondering about the RSP-1570 from Rotel.Are there any known issues with this unit?Or would it be better to move up in the line?
                      Anyone?
                      A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.

                      Comment

                      • Isaac
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 151

                        #12
                        I guess I am the odd ball out of the group. I actually prefer the Elite, I believe the Pioneer Elite is better equipped for home theater especially having THX. I have on older Elite model myself and for HT it just smokes all the "audiophile" brands.

                        Comment

                        • kgveteran
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 865

                          #13
                          I ended up with a Denon 3808ci as a processor. Audessey is to die for.

                          KG
                          Here is my LCR "Trio". Way to go guys !

                          Comment

                          • Race Car Driver
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 1537

                            #14
                            I have been running a Yammy RX-V3900 for over a year with no complaints.
                            It drives my B&W 802s and HTM2D just fine.
                            Lotta stuff in it I dont use though.
                            B&W

                            Comment

                            • ClosetSciFiGeek
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 247

                              #15
                              My UMC-1 is on the Way

                              Can't Wait
                              "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
                              -Hyman G. Rickover

                              Comment

                              • vvirumque
                                Junior Member
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 1

                                #16
                                The Yamaha rx-v1900 has no ...65 so is it ok and

                                it looks like I could go with oppo bd 80 instead of 83 to run my epson 8500ub projector. Yamaha implies that the 1900 has the Atlantic vrs technology that the difference 80 vs 83. I don't need the multizone or radio capabilities.

                                Comment

                                • audioqueso
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2004
                                  • 1930

                                  #17
                                  A Marantz or Denon is really going to bottleneck your soundstage if you use the pre-out's. I've tested this out already.
                                  Glad to hear you are receiving your UMC1 soon.
                                  B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                  Comment

                                  • ClosetSciFiGeek
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Oct 2009
                                    • 247

                                    #18
                                    Just updated the Firmware on the UMC-1. Not happy with where it set my SPL levels and crossovers with EMO-Q, but the EQ seemed right on. It is easy enough to set the levels myself and crossover settings. It does sound better with the EMO-Q eq settings and my crossover setpoints and levels set. All in all I am very happy with the UMC-1. OSD is very easy to use and the price is nice. Sound is very clean.
                                    "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
                                    -Hyman G. Rickover

                                    Comment

                                    • ClosetSciFiGeek
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Oct 2009
                                      • 247

                                      #19
                                      Sending UMC-1 Back to Emotiva-What Pre/Receiver Now?

                                      After multiple Firmware updates I still can't get my UMC-1 to handshake right with my DVR on a regular basis. I have even tried a newer Direct TV HR-23(had the HR-21). It would give me a dark pink background overlaying the video unless I rebooted the dvr and preamp(10 minutes later I could watch tv). I used to have an Outlaw 1070 that is also notorious for Firmware glitchiness that I had to reboot all the time too.

                                      Do you guys have any recommendations on a pre/pro or receiver that will:
                                      1) Handshake with a Direct TV HR23 DVR(UMC-1 doesn't)
                                      2) Sound good
                                      3) Have good video
                                      4) Have room correction that actually works(UMC-1 doesn't)
                                      5) Upconvert the HR23's 1080i to 1080P
                                      6) At least 3 HDMI inputs with one common HDMI output
                                      7) Have 7.1 RCA Preamp Outputs(to UPA-7 Amplifier)
                                      "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
                                      -Hyman G. Rickover

                                      Comment

                                      • littlesaint
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Jul 2007
                                        • 823

                                        #20
                                        You might have a look at the new Pioneer VSX-1120 due in a few weeks. I will be getting one after losing faith in Emotiva's ability to work out the UMC-1's issues.
                                        Santino

                                        The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

                                        Comment

                                        • audioqueso
                                          Super Senior Member
                                          • Nov 2004
                                          • 1930

                                          #21
                                          Same here. I returned my UMC-1 just yesterday.
                                          I'm sticking to my Marantz SR7002 for now.

                                          Do you guys have any recommendations on a pre/pro or receiver that will:
                                          1) Handshake. Marantz & Denon do. Apparently though, the Marantz X004 series has some HDMI handshaking issues.
                                          2) Sound good. I prefer Marantz' sound.
                                          3) Have good video. Denon for upscaling. Marantz does no upscaling.
                                          4) Have room correction that actually works(UMC-1 doesn't). I don't really use it.
                                          5) Upconvert the HR23's 1080i to 1080P. Denon.
                                          6) At least 3 HDMI inputs with one common HDMI output. Marantz & Denon.
                                          7) Have 7.1 RCA Preamp Outputs(to UPA-7 Amplifier)...
                                          I've tested out the output of these receiver. I honestly can say that after doing that test, a receiver will be the bottleneck of your system. I tested this out twice. Once last week when I setup my neighbor's new system (Denon receiver). Once with the Marantz SR7002. I posted my results here:
                                          Test Setup: Source/Pre: HTPC with RME 9632 soundcard/ASIO/flac. Amp 1: McIntosh MA6800 (used as amp) Amp 2: Emotiva XPA-5 * All sources switched by matrix switch to prevent less than a second of a gap in the music **Levels were adjusted one the RME soundcard so that both amps have even dB levels. Let's start... Well.
                                          B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                          Comment

                                          • ClosetSciFiGeek
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Oct 2009
                                            • 247

                                            #22
                                            Excellent Post AudioQueso

                                            Thanks for the information guys that was exactly what I was looking for. considering the Denon AVR-990 and have also looked at the new Pioneer mentioned above. I am a little disgusted right now. Almost makes a guy want to do two channel instead, almost... Still like the other Emotiva products. Might even buy a USP-1 in the interim until I decide on a pre/pro or receiver.
                                            "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
                                            -Hyman G. Rickover

                                            Comment

                                            • theblue
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Dec 2009
                                              • 116

                                              #23
                                              I love my marantz for what it is, but I consider it more fun than studio accurate. I'm leaning towards trying out a UMC-1 in a few months.

                                              my advice would be buy something used to hold you over until the UMC-1 shows up, A-B them against each other and either return the UMC-1 or sell the used receiver and you won't be out much money since you did take the first owner depreciation hit.
                                              Marantz SR5002 (music fed by apple airport express via optical)
                                              rotel RB-985 THX (4 channels bipowering fronts, 1 for the center)
                                              B&W - 683, CDM-CNT, CDS3 (sides), DM601 (rears)
                                              a combo of haveflex and audioquest cables.

                                              Comment

                                              • ClosetSciFiGeek
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Oct 2009
                                                • 247

                                                #24
                                                I have already been through a couple of firmware updates and am sending my UMC-1 back. I still think Emotiva is a great company. Their UMC-1 just didn't work with either of the two DVR's I tried. I had audio dropouts about a dozen times in an hour show, had frequent HDMI handshake issues on startup(pink ghosting of whole screen and/or no audio), and the room correction with the microphone was never really right.

                                                A friend sent his UMC-1 back(he had similar issues) and purchased an Onkyo PR-SC886 and all is well. Cost on that unit is like $1200-1400.
                                                "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
                                                -Hyman G. Rickover

                                                Comment

                                                • theblue
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Dec 2009
                                                  • 116

                                                  #25
                                                  oh, I misread thinking that you where still waiting for a UMC-1 to arrive. That scares me a little more and I'm glad I'm waiting. thanks for sharing the problems.
                                                  Marantz SR5002 (music fed by apple airport express via optical)
                                                  rotel RB-985 THX (4 channels bipowering fronts, 1 for the center)
                                                  B&W - 683, CDM-CNT, CDS3 (sides), DM601 (rears)
                                                  a combo of haveflex and audioquest cables.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • ClosetSciFiGeek
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Oct 2009
                                                    • 247

                                                    #26
                                                    Looked at the Used Market

                                                    After concluding that any new Pre-Pro(other than the UMC-1 that I am sending back due to incompatibility with my DVR) was a ridiculous sum of money I have spent the better part of my free time looking at the used market. I also thought long and hard about using a receiver as a preamp/processor and decided against it. I ended up purchasing an Outlaw 990. It will be winging its way from Washington State to my place soon. I used to have an Outlaw 970. It was buggy like my UMC-1(HDMI handshake issues), but the sound was REALLY good when it did work. Apparently the 990 hasn't got the buggy issues and the upside is I got it for $475. It should meet all my needs right now.
                                                    "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
                                                    -Hyman G. Rickover

                                                    Comment

                                                    • theblue
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Dec 2009
                                                      • 116

                                                      #27
                                                      please post a review of the outlaw and compare your experiences with the UMC-1.
                                                      Marantz SR5002 (music fed by apple airport express via optical)
                                                      rotel RB-985 THX (4 channels bipowering fronts, 1 for the center)
                                                      B&W - 683, CDM-CNT, CDS3 (sides), DM601 (rears)
                                                      a combo of haveflex and audioquest cables.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • ClosetSciFiGeek
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Oct 2009
                                                        • 247

                                                        #28
                                                        I would be happy to. I may not get it until the weekend since it is large and coming from the other coast.
                                                        "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
                                                        -Hyman G. Rickover

                                                        Comment

                                                        • theblue
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Dec 2009
                                                          • 116

                                                          #29
                                                          cool! I've been waiting for a comparison from somebody who tried both.
                                                          Marantz SR5002 (music fed by apple airport express via optical)
                                                          rotel RB-985 THX (4 channels bipowering fronts, 1 for the center)
                                                          B&W - 683, CDM-CNT, CDS3 (sides), DM601 (rears)
                                                          a combo of haveflex and audioquest cables.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • ClosetSciFiGeek
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Oct 2009
                                                            • 247

                                                            #30
                                                            Comparison Emotiva UMC-1 and Outlaw 990

                                                            Kind of a strange comparison. I was looking forward to the UMC-1 for its 1080P upconversion of all sources, its plethora of HDMI inputs, and especially its ability to decode the new Codecs. That being said I was excited when I received it. The sound was very good. For music I prefer the multichannel modes of the Outlaw 990(stereo 5/7 channel) to the UMC-1's PLXII Music mode. Stereo two channel I would call it a draw. They both sound great. They differ a bit more when it comes to movies. For movies I prefer the Outlaw. I don't know how to put this really, but with the Outlaw I kind of forget about the electronics and just watch the movie. Here are a list of pro/cons:

                                                            Emotiva UMC-1
                                                            Pro
                                                            Decodes newer Codecs
                                                            HDMI Inputs
                                                            1080P Upconversion all inputs
                                                            Modern Room Correction
                                                            Con
                                                            Won't perform HDMI handshake with DVR's I've tried(pink screen)
                                                            The room correction with eq/spl level setting/delay setting/polarity checking(doesn't work right after 3 firmware updates)
                                                            Routinely has audio dropouts from DVR/BluRay sources

                                                            Outlaw 990
                                                            Pro
                                                            Sounds great 2/5/7 channel stereo music modes(better than UMC-1)
                                                            Electronics tend to disappear during Movies
                                                            Very Stable platform(no audio drops/handshake issues)
                                                            More inputs than UMC-1(just no HDMI inputs-it uses DVI)
                                                            Con
                                                            It's Huge(had to relocate to different shelf than UMC-1)
                                                            Uses DVI vice HDMI requiring you to run audio cables as well(or is this a pro because there are no audio dropouts/hdmi handshake issues)
                                                            Have to hook up a composite out to TV for setup page
                                                            Has older room correction that only sets delay/spl level setting(but it works well and quickly)
                                                            Doesn't decode new Codecs
                                                            "You get what you Inspect, not what you Expect"
                                                            -Hyman G. Rickover

                                                            Comment

                                                            • theblue
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Dec 2009
                                                              • 116

                                                              #31
                                                              good review... thanks!
                                                              Marantz SR5002 (music fed by apple airport express via optical)
                                                              rotel RB-985 THX (4 channels bipowering fronts, 1 for the center)
                                                              B&W - 683, CDM-CNT, CDS3 (sides), DM601 (rears)
                                                              a combo of haveflex and audioquest cables.

                                                              Comment

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