REL problem - Help !!

[Briz vegas]

Calling all REL owners

I have a REL Strata 5. 2 Months ago at the end of a two hour listening session (stereo) it started popping on every 3rd (slightly louder) beat of the song I was playing (Ani Difranco - hardly taxing on a sub). I grabbed my radioshack spl meter and it registered 70db C weighted - moderate volume in anyones book. I was using the high (speaker) level connection. This CD gets lots of play and has never made the sub pop before. "pop" volume was about the same as the music.

The sub volume was set at 50 and the crossover at 38hz, 0 slam/depth and it was in phase with the main speakers. The sub was set up to provide a flat response with the SPL meter (which is not perfect I know)

The sub went in for service - thats stretching the meaning of the term - the distributors local tech said the high level connection was rubbish and I should use the full range low level RCA connection to the tape out on my 2 channel pre-amp and adjust the sub volume every time I adjusted the system volume.
This is an expensive sub and I get this mickey mouse solution.

I rejected this advice and took it back to my dealer (who no longer carries the brand). He had it sent to the distributor interstate. Over one month later it comes back and I am told that it is working fine. I will be picking it up this weekend.

Either there is something I am missing or the Strata 5 is faulty and no one is picking it up.

Now I have a bill for shipping Brisbane to Melbourne (and back) plus "service" fee. REL in the UK have not responded to my initial email for help 2 months ago. Does anyone have any ideas?

[Briz vegas]

Is the REL Strata 5 rubbish or is my expectation too high?

My REL is back from the Australian importer and my wallet is 160 bucks lighter because they found no fault.

Apart from a nice new little chip on the front of the previously flawless cabinet they say it is working 100%. No apology for the damage of course, I'm sure their response will be "all care taken etc etc" (can you tell I'm not happy right now - I'm really fussy about keeping my gear looking nice - if they had to chip it why not do it at the back)

Within 60 seconds of me hooking the sub up it is popping and a measured 74db on the same Ani Difranco track. Ok that is a bit louder than 70db from before and it does play significantly louder on other tracks before popping - so maybe Ani Difranco has the all time sub killer test track. Note. I was also using my Marantz 7300OSE's DAC and amps which do not have the same kick as my Naim 5x/ flatcap which may have given the difference.

Sonic Animation has to be played at almost 90db before the popping starts.

I intend doing a side by side test with a friends REL Brittania 2 to compare their preformance but right now I will not share what I think of REL subs if a slow deep kick drum can make it pop at 74db.

So guys,
1. do I expect too much from a sub that retails for $2800 in Australia,
2. is Ani Defranco's track "I know this bar" the all time sub killer, and
3. how do I get a small but very visible chip fixed on wood veneer?

[ShadowZA]

I tend to attribute value to a business by noting its product as well as level of customer satisfaction. A good business, imho, recognises the value of its customer base.

1. I certainly do not feel that you are expecting too much from your sub especially since your "popping" is a recent development.

2. I don't know.

3. Accidents do happen and the least I'd expect in this case is an apology + repair assistance.

Strictly speaking it is your dealer who should be of assistance, since it is such dealer with whom you shared the original contract of purchase. It appears that either your dealer and/or the REL interstate distributor is not meeting you halfway regarding your problem. Whoever it is, I believe that it is your dealer's duty to make right with you and then to take up any outstandings with the REL interstate distributor themselves.

I'd get on your dealer's back, even if you need to communicate to the MD in writing.

Good luck & keep us posted.

[Briz vegas]

update

Well I did the A-B test with the Britannia - turns out it was a 3 not a 2.

The newer Rel did 85db (sub alone, or 90db overall for music with the main speakers and sub together) on the same track without any problems - we did not push it any further as it was plenty loud - the Strata 5 seemed alot cleaner by comparison up to a measured 70db when the pop started - it sounded pretty lame by comparison although I actually preferred the Strata 5 version of bass up to the point when it started complaining.

The Britannia owner was convinced the Strata 5 was not a well puppy.

Anyway the ball is back in the importers court and there is still no word from REL on my initial enquiry back in June.

Any other Strata 5 owners out there, come on there must be someone who can share their experiences?

[george_k]

I would try getting in touch with REL directly again and voicing your dissatisfaction with the support you've received so far.

Try giving them a call, might cost you a couple bucks but it's better than e-mail (try Skype or another VOIP to cut down on long distance charges)

You never know they might hook you up with a new unit :-)

PS: Another suggestion would be to video tape the issue happening so that you have some sort of proof that there is indeed a problem. I did that with a receiver of mine that was experiencing an intermittent only when in surround sound modes. I showed exactly how to re-create the problem complete with the sound it was making.

[Briz vegas]

Rented Sunshine on DVD last night and plugged in the Stata 5 via high level input (its just been sitting in its box since it came back). It did not put a foot wrong - rumbled away without any problems even well above my normal listening levels for this sort of flick. It seems that the problem is with stop start bass.

I have a few more testing ideas up my sleeve before going back to the distributers/REL. Will keep posting - I hope to borrow a very sophisticated professional sound meter this week and to do a further comparisons with other RELs.

PS Sunshine is well worth watching even though it is a well worn science fiction path.

[Briz vegas]

Sound meter reveals interesting details

sound meter Bruel & Kjaer type 2250 (ie top quality professional model)

Test tracks
Ani Difranco "I know this Bar"
Sonic Animation "love lies bleeding" & "I'm Afraid I think I'm human"

Background levels
average 22db (12.5hz 35db distant traffic I would say - and yes I do live in a quiet street in the burbs)

Methodology - set up sub with high level connection. location - against rear wall - then disconnected main speakers so that only the sub played

"I know this bar" - well this was an interesting track - reading just over 65db from over just below 63 hz all the way down to 12.5 hz. I don't think a Strata 5 actually goes that low so I suspect the whole sub was resonating - and of course the pops were present. I have a quicktime of the meter - unfortunately the bass sound is nothing more than a click as it was beyond my cameras capabilities. File is too big to post as well.

I just rechecked the video and even when the volume was turned down so that some of the "kick drum" hits were not popping the line is still almost flat below 63hz down. This is interesting as people who know music will tell you there is rarely anything below 30hz.

Next some dance "doof" music by Sonic Animation
This read very differently. big peak at 63 hz then a big drop off. (This is curious as the subs filter was set more than 20 hz below that - obviously it is not a brick wall filter - maybe it was something to do with room nodes, just to complicate things)

I got peaks of 90db @ 63hz - the house rattled but the sub was still holding on. This is typical for dance music as I have seen similar readings on this meter outside dance clubs - ie the big peak centered around 63hz.

Conclusions - well the sub did ok with movies and dance music but it just did not like that Ani Difranco track. It would appear to be an unusual track however a friends Rel Brittania 3 sailed through with no problems - the Strata 5 stuggled and failed.

Design limitations or a fault - well only an expert sub designer could tell me. Rel have never once replied to my repeated requests for advice and the importer in Australia after testing the sub initially only gave me three words "Its working fine" but have since said they would check with REL - no answer since that time.

The local REL dealer has offered to look at it so when I get the time I will drop it in for a checkup.

[Briz vegas]

Finally got some good professional advice

As posted in the DIY forum -

Finally I have a response that I am happy with, but no thanks to REL or the importer. An excellent local dealer was prepared to listen to what I had to say, do a few simple checks and tell me what they had found.

Now that I understand the issues I feel that the Strata 5 is a good product and mine is healthy - it turns out that my problem CD was simply putting huge demands on a relatively small sub by feeding it high levels of extremely low frequency information.

This is my understanding.........

My test with the professional quality SPL meter already gave an indication of the issue. The Ani Difranco track I had problems with was reading almost flat from 63hz down to 12.5hz measured at the seating position. It turns out that this is one of those rare legendary "system killer" recordings. If you have a system that genuinely goes down to 13 hz then this recording will be a huge headache unless you have huge headroom in your subs amp.

The tech guys played the track (why would no one else do this) and straight away the pop started - the amp was clipping. Why? - they fed it test tones and at 13hz the amp ran out of steam and control was lost just as it did with the Ani Difranco track. The little sealed sub had enough in the driver to deliver but the demands were too high on the 150w amp. The same track tripped up the Rels much bigger brother in the same way, and at not much higher volume. To be fair to REL, the track simply had bucket loads of very very deep bass energy that you simply don't normally find on CDs or DVDs.

DVDs, I am told, just don't have content below 34hz and CDs stop at about 28 hz. I am talking about what is actually put on the disk - not what is technically possible to put on the disk. For example the Jurassic Park dinosaur footsteps are up at 38hz (not talking about the harmonics which tend to be less of problem as there is typically less energy).

Unless I play Telarcs 1812 overture I am unlikely to experence this problem with any other source material. With 99.9% of content the Strata 5 is more than capable of producing plenty of quality bass to keep me happy.

[ShadowZA]

Interesting. Kudos for getting to the bottom (no pun intended ) of the problem. Glad that all is well with your REL sub. Keep on enjoying the music. :T

[Gump]

Well, your tenacity paid off. Congratulations on solving the case of the "Rel mystery popping" noise! I've had a REL Q-100 for about 8yrs now and so far "no worries, mate".