Anthem P5 / Bryston / Simaudio Moon - music and home theater applications

[joe_s]

I've contemplated a A/V decision for awhile, and have about concluded that
my main interests are 2 channel audio, and TV / Home Theater. I have some interest in B&W 802D for the 2 channel audio, and as this will be in a rec room with a TV, might add a center channel, probably HTM2D. I have two ceiling mounted speakers of much lower quality (whole house audio) that I could wire as surrounds in this room. Home theater room exists and is 26 feet long by 17.5 feet high with a 57 inch TV only at this time. I am wrestling with projector ....somewhat interested in Runco 4000DX and 5000Dx and Qualia 004 although the last two are a bit more money than i wanted to spend.

A specific question is relative to amps.....anyone who has compared bryston, anthem p5, simaudio (titan and / or something like the limied edition LE-W5).

Comments relative to above also appreciated. Really struggling deciding on optimal speaker for the H/T use. I'd planned to use B&W there as well, but not sure how optimized B&W is for H/T usage.

Thanks.

[beboram]

If your primary interest is music also consider Magenepan HT speaker system plus a subwoofer such as SVS. Bryston amp goes well with Magnepan speakers.

[gd]

If your primary interest is music, I first suggest auditioning many speakers... in your (very nice) price range, have a listen to Dali, Totem, Triangle, Sonus Faber, Vandersteen, Joseph... I'll likely draw an argument on this, but I'd say that if the speakers reproduce music to your satisfaction, then they'll be fine with movies.

I've not heard the Anthems, but have spent some time with Bryston and Simaudio at shows and retailers... you probably can't go wrong with any of the three, but you'll want to pay a lttle attention to your speaker specs to ensure good matching... The Simaudios have always sounded extra musical to me, whether in a HT setup (Titan), or in 2-ch rigs... I've not heard the SE's.

Happy hunting.

[methenyfan11]

Hey guys, hope it's ok to chime in with my question. I'm trying to build a similar system, although right now I'm trying out the 703's rather than the 802's.

How do these amp choices (semiaudio, bryston, etc,) compare with Rotel for music? I'm looking for the most musical amp within a "reasonable" budget (2, 3 or 5 channel with 200/ch or more in the 2K --5K range)

Also, has anyone tried the new Def Tech 7000sc or 7001 with a really decent amp? Wondering what kind of match they would make.

[Snap]

A buddy of mine is a manager for a High End AV store, and he told me that the other day a guy came in and got rid of his B&W 804 I think was the exact modle number and got the 7001 Def Techs. So I guess he liked the Def Techs good enough.

I can't say that I would do it. Personally I think that the Phase Tech stuff sounds as good as the Def Tech in "most cases" And as much as I like Phase I don't think that anything but thier PC series would be close to B&W Towers. But that is just me.

[methenyfan11]

Hi Snap,

Thanks for the scoop. I'm new to hi-fi, so I'm a neophyte. I haven't had a chance yet to hear lots of different products (like Phase). There is a very small number of high end stores here (basically one) with limited range of gear. My ears are pretty attuned though and I'm passionate about music, so this is a fun road to go down and I'm enjoying learning about all this gear which serves the music so well.

My GUESS, is that the B&W 703's have cleaner mids and highs than the Def Tech's, but I have not heard the Def's run by an audiophile amp. My guess is also that the 804 customer was willing to give up just a bit on the top flight B&W cone materials etc, and clarity, in exchange for a warmer speaker that, for the same or less money, is really full range and warm, yet does reveal the details quite nicely. I'm considering the same tradeoff - as the total experience of the music is what really matters, not just the degree of accuracy. My next steps is , I thinkm to get some Def's hear to try in my room wtih the ROtel amp. If it's still sharp in the mids/vocals to my ears, then I need to explore amps. What do you think?

[Snap]

Like I had mentioned on another post. Earthquake makes a sweet amp. They have a 7 chan amp comming and they are dumping the 3 chan amps. You might be able to get a 3 chan amp for a decent price. 300x3. Very clean amp.

When I go to seperates I am going to go with earthquake possibly Bryston or Rotel. But for now...Earthquake.

I have not heard Def Techs on anything but Yamaha and Denon stuff. I have not seen any audio stores demo them on seperates. It has always been higher priced stuff. That does not mean that it is not done, I just have not had the pleasure of listening to them that way.

Have fun checking this stuff out.

Check out www.earthquakesound.com or Brystons website and see if there is a dealer near you that you might be able to drive and hear them.

[eddiem67]

Brystons with a 20 year warranty, you cant go wrong with that. Take a look and listen to Krell and Aerial Acoustics, these are great lines for audio, as well as HT.

[methenyfan11]

Thanks for expanding my horizons as well as my search. I've noticed that at least one reviewer felt Krell's were particularly musical. I liked what I saw on the Earthquake website too.

I'm looking for that magic velvetty, warm, yet clean sound! Again, I really like the Rotel, but it sounds, though my system/room and my ears, just a bit sterile, if that makes any sense. Really appreciate the suggestions as I look for that holy grail of sound!

[Adz]

Also, has anyone tried the new Def Tech 7000sc or 7001 with a really decent amp? Wondering what kind of match they would make.

Yes, I have the Def Tech7000 SCs which is being powered by a Bryston 6B SST (300w x3). I would conclude that Def Tech's top speaker is hard to beat in a pure HT set-up. The bi-polar sound is pretty spatial and really imparts a ton of bass and wall of sound all around you running full range, and when I auditioned a higher end audiophile recognized (direct radiating) speaker a few months back in a HT set-up, I was very disappointed and I'm certain it was because I was so used to the bi-polar sound from the Def Techs. It is different and may not be for everyone especially if you like two channel/multichannel music but the results in a home theater are quite stunning.

[methenyfan11]

Good to hear you have that kind of set up and like it, Adz. Seems to me, from reading stuff that these might be perfect for me.

I'm going to audition some Def Tech's - the shop has at least the 7002's early this week and will report. Unfortunately, I don't think they have the 7000's, I do a lot of DVD music concert listening, as well as multichannel music, but it seems to me that the bi-polar speaker might also work really well for music, esp. live music. I really like the idea of having the full range sound (including the deeper bass) coming from the fronts. So while I really like and respect the 703's (the mids and highs are SO precise and detailed), it remains to be seen if that's the best situation for my particular needs. How do you find them for two channel music? I bet classical and jazz and even pop vocals esp. would be nice with bi-polar.

Enjoy the weekend!

[Adz]

Yu are right about DVD music concerts -- in my opinion, the reference standard concert DVD (in DTS!) is Eric Clapton's One More Car One More Rider and I did try that one in a direct radiating set-up when I demo'ed those top speakers and again was disappointed when compared to the bipolar sound. I haven't done a lot of two channel critical listening with redbook CDs and haven't demo'ed other speakers with 2 channel listening in mind, but it may very well be that this is where a comparably priced speaker outperforms the Def Tech 7000s. It certainly wasn't the case in a home theater demo, that's for sure!! Good luck.

[methenyfan11]

Thanks for the feedback, Adz. I'm really looking forward to hearing the Def Techs, hopefully tomorrow evening. My room is about 20 long and only 12 wide. The more I think about it, the more bi-polar sound makes sense. It should make the room feel more spacious. With the current set up, I noticed that I like the sound as reflected into other rooms next to the living room (I have a very open floor plan) better than the direct sound.

The 703's coupled with the Rotel preamp and amp are pretty amazing for red book Cd's. You can hear things in the music that were completely lost on my old system. But without being able to do much with the room dynamics (it's my living room), I can't get away from the elevated (to my ears) mids.

As you experienced, perhaps with similar very good gear, the set up had a lot less visceral impact for movies and even music DVD's. than I hoped for. My Klipsch, though less precise, made you FEEL the gunfire in the Matrix, for example, so you experienced or felt the movie directly. With the Rotel/703 set up, you are aware that you are getting a reproduction of sounds, but you are not feeling them, you're on the outside looking in, not part of the action. The result is that the movies (and some music too) is a little less engaging and pursuasive as an experience.

I really appreciate you sharing your experiences. Will give you an update as soom as I get the Def's hooked up!

[raider]

Joe_s i just aquired a p5 two weeks ago and thus far have been totally blowin away with its fidelity and power!!!. if you are considering this amp i would highly recommend it.check out anthems web site for the specs,very impressive!!!!!
Note: its one of the few amps out there that is of a true multi mono block design capable of stability down to just about short curcuit!

[gostan]

Joe_s i just aquired a p5 two weeks ago and thus far have been totally blowin away with its fidelity and power!!!. if you are considering this amp i would highly recommend it.check out anthems web site for the specs,very impressive!!!!!
Note: its one of the few amps out there that is of a true multi mono block design capable of stability down to just about short curcuit!

I am considering the P5 or an A5 as a possible upgrade. Can you tell us more about the p5. Did you have to run any new electric circuites to handle this behemoth. I am interested in the musicality of the amp. I am sure that it will meet all of my HT requirements, but is it musical-like for 2 channel audio (or multichannel sacd). What pre-pro are you matching with it?

[jimmyp58]

The P5 is a dandy of an amp yet an Earthquake CineNova Grande 5 is, IMO, every bit as good and it costs a heck of a lot less. I've listened to the P5 and it is a beast to behold but it certainly didn't make me want to sell my Grande 5.

Jim

[LEVESQUE]

I'm also using the P5 with 2 dedicated 20A circuits.

I was so impressed with the P5 that I just sold my Bryston 4BSST and bought an Anthem P2 to replace it. The P2 is a P5 minus 3 channels, and I don't miss the 4BSST at all since I made the switch. Yep. The P2 is that good. Sonically, it's up there wth the 4BSST, but build quality is superior to the Bryston IMHO. The P2 is almost 2 times the size of the 4BSST.

I'm using the P2/P5 combo with the Anthem D1 and the Paradigm Signature speakers.

BTW, if you're in Canada, you can buy a P5 for almost the price of the Earthquake. In the USA, it's another story...

[gostan]

The P5 is a dandy of an amp yet an Earthquake CineNova Grande 5 is, IMO, every bit as good and it costs a heck of a lot less. I've listened to the P5 and it is a beast to behold but it certainly didn't make me want to sell my Grande 5.

Jim

Jim My conflict with my amplifier upgrade and my recent decision to upgrade my cd player is the musicality of the amplifier and the cd player. I am convinced that for HT an Earthquake or Anthem P5 or A5 or similar type amplifiers will all be excellent. However, I am much more concerned with how any new amplifier will interact musically 2 channel-wise and multi-channel wise with my N803's, HTM1 & N805's as this type of listening/use is more critical to me sound-wise than the movie dd/dts sound as the dynamics of movie listening/sound with all of these amplifiers seems fairly undiscernable to me when compared to the different manners in which various amplifiers sound with different types of music (and speakers). I intend to do more auditioning of some McIntosh tube and solid state amps, as well as some of the Krell, Conrad-Johnson and other offerings out there before I take a leap of faith.
Stan

[methenyfan11]

Stan, I am in the same boat as you - trying to find out what is the most musical amp without taking out a second mortgage!.

5 channels is for movies and SACD's, etc, but my most critical listening is for music, whether 2 channel red book, 5 channel SACD, or those great concert DVD's out there. Let us know -if you demo any of those options - what you think about their sound for MUSIC! (I've been demoing the ROtel 1095 with B&W 703's, and find the amp very competent, but not quite as musical as I had been hoping.)

Thanks, Peter (Methenyfan11)

[raider]

I am considering the P5 or an A5 as a possible upgrade. Can you tell us more about the p5. Did you have to run any new electric circuites to handle this behemoth. I am interested in the musicality of the amp. I am sure that it will meet all of my HT requirements, but is it musical-like for 2 channel audio (or multichannel sacd). What pre-pro are you matching with it?

Well It is a behemoth to say the least :E You will need a buddy to help you put it in place :T
Anthem recommends (2) dedicated 20 AMP SEVICES for this amp as it has (2) power cords to feed the beast :E
As far as sound is concerned the first thing i noticed is how open and uncluttered and defined the midrange and high end is :B Bass is very well controlled as the damping factor on this amp is very good :T and as the unit continues to (burn in) the overall sonics of this amp continues to astonish me as it improves :E
Not that it did'nt sound great right out of the box!
The first time i power it up The WOW factor was there :E
I Am using the Rotel 1098 As a pre-pro and listen to music(cd/concert dvd/dts) the majority of the time (70%) and movies (30%).
The first time i heard this amp was at the dealer and they were feeding a pair of electrostatic speakers which are very difficult
loads to drive and this amp drove them effortlessly and was very musical :T
In a nutshell the best thing to do is hook up with an Anthem dealer and give it a listen :T as your ears are the only ones this amp has to please

Cheers

[mitch57]

LEVESQUE,

Where in Canada can you get the Anthem P5 and for how much? I live near Vancouver and would be willing to make a trip across the border as long as I can still get the warranty.

I know it retails for $5000.00 here in the US. How much under that price can you get it for in Canada?

[joe_s]

Thanks for all the input to my original question. At this point, I think I've settled on 802D's for music; they will also be used with a wide screen TV in a rec room. Center will probably be HTM2D.

Am I better off mounting the HTM2D on its own stand or under the TV in a rack ?

Does a Simaudio Titan have sufficient current to drive (with punch) the 802D's or would a Anthem P5 be a better choice or even one of the two channel simaudio amps (which would then leave me with a challenge for the center channel). I have inexpensive ceiling speakers which could be used for somewhat of a surround capability in the rec room.

I like the musicality of the Classe amps, but was somewhat disappointed in their ability to drive deep bass.

For HT, I'm considering attempting to save a bit on the audio to enable the above rec room solution. I could go B&W again, or perhaps Anthem P5 with Paradigm Signature ? Paradigm seems to receive reviews ranging from really good to somewhat mediocre. With the S8, I thought bass was good but midrange trailed the B&W 802N when I auditioned.

[methenyfan11]

Hey, this post is for Adz especially.

I tried Def Techs (the highest model they had to try was the Def 7004) with the Rotel and it got more spacious but still not breathtaking. I then tried a Demo MAC amp (207) with the Def Techs, as well as the B&W's - WOW!

Both speakers sounded just breathtaking with that Amp. You can hear Nora Jones breathing between verses! Classical, Jazz, rock, movies, all sensational. The sound is sweet - tons of detail and clarity yet delicate and pleasing and no ear fatigue at all with either set of speakers.

The 7004's are half the price of the 703's, yet they really hold their own AND have plenty of Bass for 2 channel listening. They're even more spacious than the 703's. The 703's are amazing in their imaging and midrange clarity, as well as the sweetness of the tweeter. I imagine that the higher model 7000's will be even better than the 7004's. I have much more A/B testing to do between the speakers, and I am open to other speakers as well. The Rotel 1068/MAC combo is killer, now I'll mess around with the last piece, speakers. The Def's are on my short list for sure! Very impressive even with 2 channel music.

[Adz]

Glad to hear it! Now imagine the 7000SCs in an HT set-up - movie soundtracks sound better than in theatres and so far I haven't found anything that bests them in that setting. Don't forget each speaker has four 6.5 inch midranges and two 1 inch tweeters in an MTM bipolar arrangement with a built in 1,800 watt 14 inch Supercube reference subwoofer. Oh MY! ;x( 8O ;x(

[methenyfan11]

I've been listening to 2 chann. music as well as 5 chann. stuff all night and can't stop listening, can't believe what I'm hearing - absolutely breathtaking, found Nirvana.....and that's the modest 7004's.

I agree with you, the 7000SC or even the 7001 have to be absollutely killer! I can hear all this stuff in the music that I never even got a hint of before, yet all that detail comes across with total grace and it even sounds good at low volume. These speakers are definately more than just HT gear - great for music. Also, I've learned that the amp is really a critical piece! Seems no speaker will give you that magic without that sweetness coming out of the amp. Everything I hook up to the MAC sounds wonderful, but the Def's create a really special space.

My thought right now would be 7000's up front with the 7004's in back, and matching ctr speaker. Configure so that I can use my external sub (Velodyne spl 1200II) for LFE in movies, but have it off for CD/2 chann. music.

Sound good? Or is a didicated surround better?

[Adz]

I see lots of people using standing towers all around and running every speaker full range and then also incorporating a sub just to do LFE. I know for sure you want to match drivers all around - that's really the key! If you weren't aware of it, here is a link to a Def Tech forum where you can get different views.

Personally, I also love having built in subs all around (obviously you'll need outlets where you place the speakers), but I personally prefer the CLR3000 for center channel which has a built in 150 watt sub and the BPVX/Ps for side surrounds which have a 125 watt built in sub. The BPVX/P are bi-polar surrounds that each speaker has four 6.5 woofers - two that act as midranges and two that act as subs and a 1 inch tweeter, again in an MTM array. Pretty unique.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/postlist.php/Cat//Board/deftech

[methenyfan11]

Thanks for the info and link Adz.!

[gd]

Am I better off mounting the HTM2D on its own stand or under the TV in a rack ?

Does a Simaudio Titan have sufficient current to drive (with punch) the 802D's or would a Anthem P5 be a better choice or even one of the two channel simaudio amps (which would then leave me with a challenge for the center channel).

Personally, I would avoid burying any speaker inside a cabinet, but an open rack should be ok... more specifically, the center should be positioned in the same manner the front mains are, so they're all on the same plane, and also have similar space behind them -- that way they can perform as a unified front... easier said than done, I guess, depending on your room.

I can't speak to the specific matching of the Titan to the 802D's, but I'd be surprised if the Titan could not drive them easily... furthermore, the Titan comes in 3- (and 5- and 7-) channel versions, which resolves the front three... another very powerful option is the Earthquake Cinenova, also with a 3-channel version.