NEW OUTLAW MODEL 990 Pre/Pro!!!

[Nick M]

SPECTACULAR! $1099 MSRP! :E :E :E

Here is the "Press Release"

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/cgi-local/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=000007;p=1

I'm eager to see the details regarding bass management.
I don't think there is another pre/pro that will even have a shred of a chance competing with this feature set at $1100.

They will also be releasing a 300Wx7 Amplifier with Balanced Inputs to match the Balanced Outputs of the Model 990. This combo will be simply spectacular I'm guessing.

[junior77blue]

very nice!! and Better price!!

[Brandon B]

Hmmm. I hadn't been going to upgrade, but hmmmmmmmm. I kinda need the audio sync thing, and my first-batch-shipped outlaw 950 IS very dusty. Hmmmm some more.

BB

[Kevin P]

RRrrrrroowrrrrrr! :drool: :drool: :hump: :leghumper:

Looks like something that could very well displace Rotel and Sherwood on my HT pre-pro shopping list. :E DVI switching too! :leghumper:

[David Meek]

But, but, how does it sound? :

[Kramer]

:wink:

[junior77blue]

Yes, on paper it looks great...surprised they went with DVI and not HDMI switching.

Can't wait till we get some reviews on this either from this site or professional write-ups. Too bad I just bought my pre-amp a few months ago. This would have been an EXTREMELY strong candidate, especially at that price range.

I've also heard rumors that Denon is comming out with at 5505 or whatever their flagship AVR is called and creating a preamp only version!!

[Andrew Pratt]

Its just not the same without that ugly green power button

[Kevin P]

It has a cute silver power button instead. The rest of the unit is a bit homely looking (at least compared to Rotel gear), but for the price it's worth it especially if it's going into a cabinet with doors.

I think they went with DVI since it's a mature technology whereas HDMI is still somewhat in flux. Other than carrying audio over the same wire, you can easily convert between DVI and HDMI with a simple cable.

[Nick M]

Its just not the same without that ugly green power button

I was suprised to see them depart from this trademark item. They could have gone with a GAP/Abercrombie "pastel verde" or something... :B

[Patt]

That is a real departure from the St Patricks Day button styling.

Looks pretty sharp in the picture....sort of reminds me of the Emotiva brand processor over at av123...only better.

[Aussie Geoff]

Nicholas,

If you pop down to a modelling store you will be able to get small tins of enamel paint that is designed to stick to plastic (you know all those model cars, plains, boats etc). They come in a myriad of colors so I just know that you will be able to get that perfect green.

Geoff

[Nick M]

Apparently its being built by the korea-owned OEM manufacturers who build the Sherwood Newcastle P-965 pre/pro which retails for $1500. It appears to be an identical chasis plus balanced outputs, DVI switching, and $400 cheaper price tag (roughly equal street price). No word on internal processing differences though...



BTW, an AVS member recommended this for true Outlaw fanatics... :B

[Brandon B]

A little curious what someone like Jon would say about this post about balanced outs in Outlaw's thread on the 990:

Completely balanced circuits not only add to the complexity of a circuit by a factor of two, with the resulting addition of noise and distortion, but they also cancel out even order distortion components such as the 2nd and 4th harmonic, the very ones you do not want to be cancelled. This leaves only the odd order (3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th etc) distortion components laid bare, and these usually result in a sterile and hard sounding unit, even when the spec'd distortion is "vanishingly low".

All electronics generate distortion, however little, and the presence of the low order even harmonics (especially the 2nd harmonic) will cover up the presence of the higher order, harsher distortion components. Our ears are particularly sensitive to even vanishingly low levels of higher order/odd order distortion.

One of the major reasons tube amplifiers sound so natural is the fact that the distortion spectra is almost completely low order, with the 2nd harmonic being the most pronounced.

Plain old un-sexy unbalanced designs are the best sounding, and balanced circuits should only be used as a last resort to combat RFI/EMI picked up by extremely long cables (50' or more) that have to run through hostile environments.

Contrary to what marketing departments may have you believe, balanced circuits were developed for one purpose and one purpose only: to combat interference picked up by very long cables in professional installations. Their use actually involves a sonic penalty that is best avoided if at all possible.

BB

[Nick M]

I'd also like to see Jon or Thomas weigh in here...
"I'za stoopit' wid dis 'tuff..." :drool:

:B

[Brandon B]

I'm not a audio engineer or even close, but it doesn't sound right to me at all. Why would it cancel out even order harmonics but not odd order? If these are introduced by the components in the circuits, I don't see why they would cancel at all, as they will be in phase with the original signal and so when flipped they also would be in phase. And I don't see why their order would make them cancel or not cancel either. I thought that was just a matter of the coefficient in front of the fundamental frequency being an even or odd number, nothing to do with phase.

Given Ayre stuff comes balanced, as well as some other real high end stuff, sounds misinformed to me.

Hey someone with knowledge - elucidate!

BB

[jimmyp58]

Sherwood-Newcastle is a majority owner in the Korean-owned OEM plants that build for other companies.

[Andrew M Ward]

Balanced topology throughout or?

Fascinating!

I would love to see the topology written out; my guess is the Balanced is not really balanced throughout the board. I would guess that right after your balanced cable connects to the rear of the preamplifier it is handed off directly to the single-ended circuit topology. Advantage zero. Other than you've got great cables.

Just a guess.

Not trying to pick a fight, just making an observation.
-Andrew

[Brandon B]

At the price point you are almost certainly correct.

BB

[gd]

Which is probably why Rotel doesn't feature true balanced circuitry.

That Outlaw will have to make music better than its predecessor to get my attention... 950 strikes me as a rather good movie pre (excellent steering), but music comes off as a little thin and harsh to these ears... opinion only.

But they still have cornered the market on ugly... 990 looks like the illegitimate love child of an NAD and an Adcom.

[Nick M]

LOL! :roflmao:

[Shane Martin]

Looks interesting but no ROOM EQ might be a deal killer for quite a few folks. They are not a gimmic.

If it's a clone of the Sherwood to some degree then perhaps it might have the auto setup program that Sherwood uses.

[JonMarsh]

A little curious what someone like Jon would say about this post about balanced outs in Outlaw's thread on the 990:




BB

Well, in our company, we would say this sounds like an attempt at a technical blurb written by a Product Marketing Manager- take a little truth and twist it around to suit your needs.


Truth: A balanced differential circuit DOES cancel out even order distortion; odd order products will remain. What is the reality causing this, and how may it affect sonic perceptions? It's a bit more complicated than the simplistic quote above, especially when you take into account negative feedback present in most conventional electronics using opamp type gain structures.


This is going to be long, so I'm going to compose off line, probably at lunch, then come back and edit/update this post.

Hints:

Even order distortion is just that which is due to asymmetry in the gain transfer function; i.e., swings more in one polarity than the other.

Odd order distortion is that distortion which occurs due to gain compression swinging the signal in either plus or minus- no favorites.

LOW order harmonic distortion products, such as 2nd and 3rd, are perceived as musically consonant, and can be tolerated in relatively higher levels without complaint on simple signals- complex ones result in IM products which are not simple harmonic overtones, though.

High order distortion products, whether odd or even, are perceived as not musically related to the original signal, and generate more apparent IM side bands at non harmonically related frequencies.

You see what they twisted in their description already, I think.

More later.

~Jon

[jimmyp58]

I confirmed with S-N yesterday that in fact, they are building the new Outlaw pre/pro. One interesting point is that they are of the belief, per their agreement with Outlaw, that the unit will have a MSRP (U.S.) of $2,100, not $1,100 as this is an introductory price only. Probably should check with your dealer to be certain what their pricing will be after this initial period.

They added, per Outlaw's request, the balanced outs and dvi switching. There are other aspects that are different though despite the similarities in pre/pro layout (back panel).

Jim

P.S. One thing is for certain is that with S-N building this unit, it WILL sound incredible.

[Shane Martin]

Probably should check with your dealer to be certain what their pricing will be after this initial period.

THere are no dealers for this product. It is thru outlawaudio.com.

Given their history their introductory price is their price for the long term(might even go down like the 950 did).

[jimmyp58]

Thanks for the feedback Shane.

[Nick M]

per their agreement with Outlaw, that the unit will have a MSRP (U.S.) of $2,100, not $1,100

I sincerely doubt the price will be raised to $2100. I'm betting on $1200 after the "initial buying spree".

I'm still happy with my 950... :B

[Nick M]

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000003

LOTS MORE INFO! :T

[Bent]

I think I feel the need to "seperate", this could just do it for me...

[jimmyp58]

No need to turn this into a debate Nicholas as truly I would agree that the Outlaw should be a wonderful processor. I was simply trying to educate folks, as are you, about this unit and especially that potentially the price could go upward per the info I received from S-N and that folks should be aware that possibly if they don't buy early, the price could go up. Even in the recent announcement you posted, Outlaw acknowledges the price will go up but are vague as to what it might be.

I won't go into all the differences to the positive on how possibly the P-965 might be better as it might seem that I am hard-selling, etc. Anyone wanting more info on the P-965 can simply PM me.

Jim

[Shane Martin]

, Outlaw acknowledges the price will go up but are vague as to what it might be.

The price MIGHT go up. Based on their history, they haven't jacked up the price yet on their introductory prices. They usually do this as a disclaimer. I've followed outlaw for a long long time. It's pretty standard. They kinda dropped this on us though which is a change for them as before they had the 950 out they hyped it up alot and I think it bit them in the arse. This time they are playing it safe and personally I think they are going the right route.

The whole "how we handle DTS HD++ etc" part of the latest statement leaves me wanting though. AFAIK, You need atleast HDMI version 1.2(so I read) otherwise you are relying on the dvd player you buy to do the processing. I won't be going that route. I want the processor to completely handle it. Even the latest receivers with HDMI are not safe.

[Patt]

LOL! :roflmao:

I like it!...except for the green knob Nick. :roflmao:

Would anybody agree that for me, really never having a future interest in surround sound that a processor would be a waste?

As appealing as the #990 is it would seem like such a waste not to use the capabilities of such a fully loaded piece, that's what I'm thinking anyway.