SVS: PCi 16-46 vs PC+ 16-46 vs PC-Ultra

[Nick M]

Has anyone here heard a comparison between these? I've heard the PCi 20-39, and liked it alot. Definetly not looking for more output than that, but I'm curious if going with the plus or ultra gives you even tighter response...

I'd love any comments you might have.

[DrJRapp]

I once had the PCi 20-39 and it was a good sounding piece. I upgraded because in my room the PCi just didn't have enough Bxxxs to make us feel the bass without bottoming. My room is qute large at over 7000 cu ft. So I upgraded to the PB2+ to get t he extra umph that I needed. I bypassed the PB2 ISD because I wanted to move beyond the excellent sound of the ISD driver to the superlative sound of the DB12 drivers in the plus series. The quality of the drivers alon is worth the price difference. I have heard the Ultra drivers and I can honestly say that there isn't a significant improvement in the sound IMHO, they just can handle more power, have more excursion and can play louder. I am not sure the Ultra driver is really worth the extra investment. This is a judgement you need to make on your own. I know this is a difficult thing to do since you can't go to a local dealer and listen to either of them.

I suggest you visit HT Spot and the SVS club over there and post a thread looking for SVS owners in your area who would be willing to invite you into their homes to audition their subs. OBTW, since it's so cold up in Massachusetts if you would like to take a trip to sunny South Florida, you are welcome to come here and visit mine.

In terms of my own personal recommendation, I would look at the PB 2+ (now called the PB12-2+ I believe) vs the PC Ultra if you have the room. It's a big sucker. For about the same price as the PC Ultra the PB 2+ has a bigger amp two drivers and greater output which would give you more headroom. Also, under most conditions the 2 drivers in the 2+ are coasting and therefore deliver really low distortion.

[Nick M]

Just curious DrJRapp, do you feel the ISD (PCi) drivers were less accurate than the DB12 (Plus) drivers? I wont be cranking it very often, so I'm not worried about going with the 320W amp over the 525W amp, but I am wondering if there is a change in accuracy and response speed that is noticeable when going with the plus or ultra series.

Are the fancier drivers in the plus/ultra series just more expensive because they can handle higher outputs with the 525W amp, or are they also more accurate? (From your experience)

Thanks,
Nick

[DrJRapp]

Just curious DrJRapp, do you feel the ISD (PCi) drivers were less accurate than the DB12 (Plus) drivers? I wont be cranking it very often, so I'm not worried about going with the 320W amp over the 525W amp, but I am wondering if there is a change in accuracy and response speed that is noticeable when going with the plus or ultra series.

Are the fancier drivers in the plus/ultra series just more expensive because they can handle higher outputs with the 525W amp, or are they also more accurate? (From your experience)

Thanks,
Nick

IMHO the ISD drivers are nothing special, but the DB12 are and the ultra is only half a notch better.... perhaps. It should be noted that SVS's absolute flagship the B4 uses the DB12 drivers. That says something about them in itself. The DB12 should, on paper at least be the quicker driver of the two high end drivers since it has the shorter excursion. This of course means it has less output capability in terms of max spl, but has a tighter, more controlled sound. This to my ears means cleaner.

I own a PB 12 -2+ and have listened to a friends PB 12 -2 Ultra and I am unable to hear any real difference at normal spl. Nobody, shy of a movie theater needs more output than the PB 12-2+ can deliver, it's that much of a monster. It should be noted that I haven't mentioned the words cost effective yet. I can afford either unit but I believe the DB 12 equipped units deliver the best "bang for the buck" (that is so apropos for subwoofer's....LOL) of any subwoofer out there, including SVS's own Ultra equipped line.

[BlazeMaster]

I've had the PCi20-39 for a couple of weeks before returning it for the PB12plus/2 also. I'm not so much of an expert and haven't done much comparison between different subs. I can tell you that in my room, the PCi20-39 was enough at normal listening volumes, but the PB12plus/2 has all the extra headroom that I needed, when I'm in the mood to crank it up a little bit. I don't have any immediate neighbors, so going with the bigger sub was good.

As far as the quality of bass between the 2, I'd never really actually had them both side-by-side for a direct comparison, but I can tell you the PB12plus/2 is definitly worth the extra $. I can simulate a "personal earthquake" with them at will. On certain bass-heavy scenes, the PB12plus/2 can shake all the windows in the house, including the ones on the 2nd floor. After I got the Auralex GRAMMA, it reduced the vibrations alot and I definitly hear more definitions in the bass notes.

One thing about the PB12plus/2, if you go with one, is that they're over 100 lbs. That's a pretty heavy piece of furniture for me to move for someone my size. If you're not always moving, I'd recommend you to try it out. They do have a 45 day return/exchange policy, so if you ever want more you won't feel as rushed to decide. It took me about 2 weeks to decide that the PCi wasn't enough for me.
BTW: Another plus about the PB12plus/2 is that you can adjust the lowest frequency by adding/removing the port plugs. You can't do so with the PCi.

[DrJRapp]

Nick

I hope those of us with the two driver SVSs arn't confusing the issue for you. Generally speaking the 2 driver PBs have about 2 to 4 times the output of the single drivers, that's the main difference. Two questions, how large is your room, and do you prefer a sub that digs deep or one that is loud?

[BlazeMaster]

why don't u shoot SVS ur room size and your habits...they'll recommend u one that'll be "enough" for u and one that's "more than enough" for you. They recommend me to get the PCi20-39 first and when I wanted more, they actually suggested I keep the PCi, but I wouldn't have it...I wanted MORE..

[Nick M]

I've chatted a couple times with Erik K from SVS, and he said the following...

There is an improvement in sound quality as you move up each tier but it is a not a night and day difference. If the PCi is going to be enough for you in terms of output then I wouldn’t step up all the way to the PC Ultra just for sound quality (unless money is no object to you); if anything I’d just go up to the PC Plus for improved sound quality and the nice feature of custom tuning that it adds.

The price difference between the PC-Plus and PC-Ultra is less than $300, so if I don't go with the PCi series, I'd grab an Ultra. I really don't need huge output levels, just something that digs real deep (pipe organs and pod races), and remains accurate. Not looking to blow my landlords windows out upstairs, but I want to feel the bass in my room. More than anything though, accuracy is important. I've heard the PCi series as I mentioned above, and could definetly live with what I heard (best sub I've ever heard), but when presented with the option, I'm wondering how much difference I'm going to hear in quality moving from the PCi to the PC-Ultra. I'm also looking at sub 20hz sound reproduction with the bigger tubes of the PCi 16-46 vs PC-Ultra.

I dunno :huh:

[BlazeMaster]

Nicholas, I've dealt with both Erik and Ron before and are both really nice and honest guys. They pretty much said the same thing to me when I wasn't exactly "satisfied" with the PCi, but I still wanted more, so I exchanged it for a PB12plus/2. Like I said before, I never had them both in my home at the same time, so I can't really comment on the difference in the quality of bass. The PB12plus/2 definitly has more output and goes a little bit deeper because you can change the frequency response with the port-blocker. With any of the PCi line, you can't. Like Erik said, the difference is definitly not night and day. One thing that you can do to avoid the noise complaint is getting something that isolate the sub from the floor that it's resting on...try this http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolati...ion_gramma.asp
Another thing about the PCi line, since you cannot adjust the frequency response, the lower you want, the more output you will loose. For example, the PCi 25 will have more output than the PCi16. I personally thought the PCi20-39 is a good comprimise between output and lowest response. Same thing with my PB12plus/2, the lower I want it to reach, the more maximum output I will loose. Personally, I think the difference between the output/response ratio is more audible than the quality of bass, eg: ISD vs. Plus vs. Ultra. If you must get the I line, I'd recommend the 20-39. If you have money to spare, I'd recommend the Ultra. Keep in mind that the difference in maximum output between the closest models won't be huge, Erik said about 6 dB at the max. Good luck.
BTW: if you're ever in California, I'd be glad to show you my PB12plus/2.
Have you checked out the avsforum yet? Ron and Erik both frequent that forum and they'll chime in their opinion as well from time to time. You can run a search for that topic there, you should get alot more opinions from SVS owners. There's definitly more SVS owners there than HTguide.

[Shane Martin]

Nicholas,
To me it sounds like you are perfect for the PC Ultra. The built in EQ is another huge bonus that goes along with the Ultra woofer.

[Nick M]

Yeah I think I'm going to spend the extra dough and go for the PC-Ultra.
I guess if I'm going to be in for it $700, I might as well go for the cadillac and spend the $1200.

Hopefully the end of this month I'll have enough clams. opcorn: ;b>

[Chris D]

I've had a really good experience with Ron and the rest of the guys at SVS.

Listening to a couple of different models in the cylinder series, I can say that yes, I did notice the difference in the different models' performances. The all put out serious bass, but when you get down to the lower regions that you really listen for on your reference material, I heard things on the higher models that weren't there on some of the lower ones.

What did I do? Bought dual PC-Ultras.