Buying all new system in June (Advice needed on Proposed components)

**aud19** · 31 January 2005, 18:21 Monday

1-I'd say you should be able to get 20%-25% (on reg. price, not sale) discount based on all that gear, depends on the dealer though.

2-Yes, I'd switch to a SVS or HSU sub or even better a DIY sub if you're at all handy and get bigger mains.

3-If you have a PC handy you may want to investigate using it as a media server for all your music...? Otherwise there are lot's of options for DVD players and I'd wait till closer to the date to pick one to ensure you get the best deal and/or technology available at your price point.

4-If you want to spend the money I hear the quality and selection is there. I rarely listen to radio myself outside of my car so it's not much of a concern for me personally. Also if you do use a PC as a media server you do have the option of internet based radio etc though some of the stations SQ can be questionable...

5- Depends on whether you plan on doing analog SACD/DVD-A, do you have existing speaker cables etc?

**spirited** · 31 January 2005, 18:27 Monday

Lg

First of all, rethink your screen there is alot better out there. LG is not well made (Take it from a tech). Think about buying something that's good quality, and built to last. IMO flat CRT is your best bet. (Other members are surely going to weigh in on this.) It's HDTV compatible and it will save you some cash towards buying a new amp or better speakers.

**brendon** · 01 February 2005, 04:13 Tuesday

Hi ,I would suggest the 602s3 for fronts as they are a much better match for lcr600 and and a better speaker all round and could still be used in a 7.1 sys with the 601s at rear.I have just bought 602s3 and lcr 60 and will use 601s or 600 as rears .I would have preferred the lcr600 as center but my budget would not stretch.Is your upgrade going to be to 604's or a higher range B&W setup?
Brendon

**jmc_htguide** · 01 February 2005, 09:06 Tuesday

Thanks for the reply

Originally posted by brendon

Hi ,I would suggest the 602s3 for fronts as they are a much better match for lcr600 and and a better speaker all round and could still be used in a 7.1 sys with the 601s at rear.I have just bought 602s3 and lcr 60 and will use 601s or 600 as rears .I would have preferred the lcr600 as center but my budget would not stretch.Is your upgrade going to be to 604's or a higher range B&W setup?
Brendon

If I go to the 602 I would have to downgrade the sub to the ASW600 or the center to the LCR60 which is the better choice. (I know it seems crazy to be splitting hairs of $150 on a $5000 system but 10k is absolutely not breakable.
I will probably upgrade when I get a dedicated HT room. If I only have to upgrade the fronts then I will probably be able to go to the 700 series floor standing.

**jmc_htguide** · 01 February 2005, 09:21 Tuesday

Originally posted by Frustrated

First of all, rethink your screen there is alot better out there. LG is not well made (Take it from a tech). Think about buying something that's good quality, and built to last. IMO flat CRT is your best bet. (Other members are surely going to weigh in on this.) It's HDTV compatible and it will save you some cash towards buying a new amp or better speakers.

Wow, I thought I was choosing a well made set. I chose this set for the following reasons:
DLP - I wanted small footprint without the price of flat panel
xHD3 chipset so I can use the display for computer output at 1920x1080
LG - Was told it was better that Samsung and RCA which are the only 3 to use the xHD3 chip
I have not completely given up the thought of front projection, but it would have to stay in the $4-5k range with screen and everything.

**aud19** · 01 February 2005, 11:41 Tuesday

Originally posted by jmc_htguide

If I go to the 602 I would have to downgrade the sub to the ASW600 or the center to the LCR60 which is the better choice.

Keep the bigger centre. Trust me. A huge amount of movie soundtracks place very large amounts of dialogue, sound effects, music etc in the centre channel. You do not want to short-change here. As I recommended in the first reply, go with a sub from SVS or HSU or build a DIY one. They'll outperform the B&W subs and for way less money allowing you to afford the 602's which I totally reccomend.

I'm also with Frustrated on the HDTV. Go for a Hitachi or Mitsubishi CRT based RPTV if you can. You could get some of their better sets and have it ISF calibrated giving you a far superior picture for less than those DLP sets. That should free up some money as well for better speakers/amps/cables etc.

**jmc_htguide** · 01 February 2005, 12:55 Tuesday

Originally posted by aud19

..,
I'm also with Frustrated on the HDTV. Go for a Hitachi or Mitsubishi CRT based RPTV if you can. You could get some of their better sets and have it ISF calibrated giving you a far superior picture for less than those DLP sets. That should free up some money as well for better speakers/amps/cables etc.

I will start looking at CRT sets, but I really like the smaller size (depth) and weight of the DLP or LCD RPTVs. I was hoping to put the TV on a self above the components instead of needing to have a side cabinet. Any chance a quality projection unit (w/screen) could be had for less than $5k?

**aud19** · 01 February 2005, 13:17 Tuesday

Absoulutely! Though you're I'd personally go for a high quality 3-chip LCD FP rather than a lower quality 1-chip DLP based FP at that price. Panasonic, Sanyo, Sony and Yamaha all have some nice FP's that fall under that price. You'll give up a little bit of PQ and light output (you'll need good light control and a fairly dark room) with an FP compared to a RPTV but nothing recreates that movie experience like a big screen :T

**hery** · 01 February 2005, 21:41 Tuesday

I second the motion on a SVS sub with B&W's, I own the PB1-SD and it sounds great with the front CM 4s, CMC center and CM 2s rear speakers all powered by a RSX-1055 and 1075. Also go for a Mitsubishi :T

**BlazeMaster** · 01 February 2005, 22:01 Tuesday

I'm sure you heard this enough already, don't waste your money on B&W subs unless you're talking about the 700s and 800s series. With that being said, I'm quite a B&W fan myself and have the 603s as mains, LCR600 center, 601 as surrounds and the mighty SVS PBplus/2. If you're more focused on HT only, a powerful sub will be the core of your HT impact. A clean center will come in close as the 2nd priority. I agree with you on your emphasis on getting quality amps and preamps, but the 600s bookshelves you're proposing are very easy to drive and most receivers will do a fine job. Although there really isn't a cheap way to cut corners to achieve audio and video nirvana, but I personally think the Rotels you're proposing will only really start to shine when you move up to the 700s and up. What I would recommend you do is focus on your speakers more, the amps and preamps can come later. You can get a 705x4 w/ HTM7 and get a value receiver like my Denon 2805. It can drive bookshlves speakers to ear-bleeding levels. And that's where a poweful sub comes in handy, it'll take care of all the bass that your bookshelves can't handle. Best of wishes.

PS. Samsung are one of the first, if not the first to bring consumer the DLP technology. So if you're stuck on DLPs, Samsung should be one of your top choices. Anything w/ 1080p will have a FAT price premium and besides, what are you going to be watching that is 1080p anyways? High resolutions is only one of the factors of picture quality, don't judge things by numbers only, go and see w/ your own eyes. You'll be surprised to find out that most of the displays that don't do 1080p resolutions natively can be quite pleasing to look at. The Infocus 4805 are a living example at less than $1500.

**Foxman** · 02 February 2005, 09:14 Wednesday

IMO, I would spend more on speakers and less on electronics.

**Shane Martin** · 02 February 2005, 11:26 Wednesday

IMHO you are spending too much on the electronics compared to the speakers. I would also go with the SVS option for a sub and put that money towards your speakers. The SVS will crush the B&W sub.

Since you only going 5.1 I'd just get the Rotel 1056 receiver and put the rest towards better speakers. Since you are not pushing it up in volume, I personally think the move to seperates is a bit premature and overkill for your usage.

As far as a TV goes, I think $4500 for a 1080P DLP is a bit optimistic. If you don't want the big box CRT in front of you, you could put the CRT in a wall and flush mount it. If you don't own a house, then going with a CRT might not be the best choice. Then again you can go 65" for $2k. Basically you can get 2 65" mitsubishis for the same price as the 1 61" DLP.

If you go with a PJ, then the Sony HS51 or new Sharp Z2000 DLP would rock and be within reason for your budget.

**aud19** · 02 February 2005, 12:11 Wednesday

Now that you guys mention it, beyond my previous recommendations, I also recommend the 1056 over the 1068/1075. You can always add amps later and upgrade the pre/pro later. If you get good speakers from the start, they can be a great long term investment. Heck if you want to get a head start on the amps and have the budget after getting better speakers, go for the 1056 with a 1070 or 1080 2-ch amp for the mains. That way you've also got the channels for 7.1 or a second zone and your mains will sing with 2-ch material.

Also nothing against B&W but don't just assume that's your best buy. Go listen to some other brands as well, like Energy, Kef, Paradigm, Polk, PSB, Tannoy, Totem, Vienna Acoustics etc. You may find something you'll like even better, if not you can still always get the B&W's but make sure you listen to your options first

**jmc_htguide** · 02 February 2005, 18:08 Wednesday

OK guys, the message seems pretty clear, I am 'under-speakered' and 'over-electroniced'. Let me take another stab.
System number 2:
Arcam AVR300( $700 ) or Rotel 1056 ($1300)
B&W 705 Front Speakers $1,500
B&W 601s3 Rear Speakers $450
HTM7 Center Speaker $750
B&W ASW700 Sub-Woofer $1,300

I am not 100% sold on the B&W but I have heard them and was impressed. I will be scheduling a demo at my dealer and will ask him to assemble several different systems for proper cross checking. As for the sub, if I can move to the ASW700 should I still consider one of the SVS subs instead (will make demo more difficult as the B&W dealer does not carry SVS)?

As far as the TV goes, I am starting to lean in the FP direction so I will probably start a new thread in the projector section(or jump in active threads if relevent). I had originally decided I needed 1080p for a computer display, but I have since reconsidered and I will not need to connect the pc to the display unit, which opens up all options (some may still accept PC input, but it is not a requirement).

**Foxman** · 02 February 2005, 18:23 Wednesday

Jim, SVS is an internet only company so finding one at a store for a demo is about impossible, unless they bought one for that purpose or traded for one. I can not comment on the B&W sub, but I can say that dollar for dollar you will be hard pressed to come close to the quality of a SVS sub. I would give very serious consideration to a SVS sub as the sub is probably the second most important speaker in your HT system (right behind the center channel). You can email SVS tech support with room size, listening habbits and the system you are building and they will make a recomendation to you that will make the most sense based on their knowledge of HT, not based on their product. They actually suggested a cheaper SVS sub for me than I was willing to purchase initially. Anyway, don't let the fact that you can not demo the SVS disuade you as they do have a 45 day return policy and I would almost wager you would never feel the need to get that B&W over the SVS.

Good luck, and Oh FWIW I am in the triad just up the road from you, I'd be willing to let you hear my system if you want to feel an SVS sometime. :T

**aud19** · 02 February 2005, 18:44 Wednesday

Out of curiosity, what other speaker brands does your dealer carry?

I'm sure some of you guys will argue with my but as much as I love the 700 series speakers, the HTM7 doesn't do much for me. They really need to come out with a larger 700 series centre model similar to the LCR60/LCR600 lineup.

And yes, no matter what series of B&W you move up to the SVS subs will still outperform on a dollar/performance ratio IMO.

**jmc_htguide** · 02 February 2005, 19:54 Wednesday

The dealer for B&W (only B&W dealer in Raleigh, NC) also sells: "We offer fine quality components and speakers from Mark Levinson, Proceed, Meridian, Audio Research, Musical Fidelity, Bryston, Linn, Aerial, Vandersteen, Wilson Audio, B&W, Magnepan, Magnum Dynalab, Sumiko, Clearaudio, Velodyne, Adcom, Rotel, Arcam, Sony ES, Transparent, Shunyata, and Ultralink"

Foxman: Thanks for the offer, as I get closer to my final choices I may take you up on the speaker test drive.

**BlazeMaster** · 02 February 2005, 22:02 Wednesday

Are you using the speakers for movies only? If you're, I don't see much benifts of going beyond 705. I'd strongly recommend you to have 5 identical speakers if you're a music lovre as well.

Seems like that dealer has products with the audiophile caliber. Honestly I wouldn't even pay that much for speakers in a dedicated HT room. Think about it this way, HT speakers are mostly making sounds and audiophile speakers produce music. I personally think that the audiophile speakers are just too gentle for action movies. Check out Foxman's Klipsch if you get a chance, one of the best speakers for movies, IMO.

**Shane Martin** · 03 February 2005, 07:33 Thursday

Looking better but yet I'd still take up Foxman on his offer... I'm pretty sure you will not be buying the B&W sub after that

As aud said, dollar for dollar performance, the B&W sub is just vastly overpriced for its performance level. You may even save enough money on that purchase to buy a seperate amp in case the 1056 can't deliver the current to the 705's.

**aud19** · 03 February 2005, 12:27 Thursday

Originally posted by BlazeMaster

HT speakers are mostly making sounds and audiophile speakers produce music. I personally think that the audiophile speakers are just too gentle for action movies.

OK I have to disagree at least somewhat with that. Almost all movies have some sort of musical score that need to be reproduced. Try to imagine the music in the Lord of the Rings trilogy not being reproduced properly...

Not to mention that dialogue has a lot of the same speaker design and sonic requirements that song vocals will require. Especially important with centre channels in both movie soundtracks and 5-ch SACD /DVD-A tracks.

As the old saying goes, if a system can accurately reproduce music it will perform well with movies as well. However a system that does movies well will not neccesarily produce music well.

If feasible, your recommendation for 5 identical speakers is a good one though :T

**audiofreak7** · 24 February 2005, 00:01 Thursday

Might want to check out Paradigm "Studio" Series with a Siesmic 10 sub.

**BlazeMaster** · 24 February 2005, 23:57 Thursday

whatever...jmc htguide, did you get a chance to check out Foxman's setup?

**Al Garay** · 25 February 2005, 02:29 Friday

The main speakers need to be more special, something along the B&W 802 series if you like the B&W sound. You should listen to the Vandersteens and the Linn speakers. Both would go well with the Rotel, Bryston or Linn electronics. See if your dealer has an upgrade policy.

Consider how far away your seating area is from the monitor. You might want to look at the top-of-the-line Sony XBR 34" CRT for around $1999. The Toshiba Cinema series 34" widescreens is very close in quality for around $1300. Leaves much more budget for Vandersteen especially the Vandy 3A which would be very very nice for listening to music.

If you were limiting yourself to that dealer, I would consider (retail prices from Vandy's website):

Vandersteen 3A front Left and Right $3495
Vandersteen VCC-1 center $549
Vandersteen VSM-1 side/rear $949
Vandersteen V2W subwoofer $1295
speaker total retail (you should do better) $6288

Electronics
Arcam AVR300(Can you get it for $700? Assume retail $1999)
Denon 2910 DVD ($600) or get the Oppo or Panasonic S97 for $199-250
Subtotal $2599 (assume 2910)

TV
Toshiba 34HFX84 $1300 (if you get Denon 2910)
or Sony KD-34XBR960 $1999 (if you get the Oppo or Panasonic S97)

total $10,187 with the Toshiba.

You should get not pay retail, save at least 15% which will get you teh Sony XBR and the Denon 2910.

Later, you can have the DVD player tweeked or buy a used external DAC like a Bolder Cable Mensa Modified ART DI/O for $350 and have a very sweet system for home theater and audio.

**jmc_htguide** · 17 March 2005, 11:25 Thursday

Al,

Thanks for the recommendation. I FINALLY got a chance to have a hard listen at the store.

Electronics test: Rotel 1067 (as a placeholder for the 1068&1075), 1056 and Arcam 300 all with the B&W 704
My ears preffered the Arcam 300.

Speaker Test (using the Arcam 300): B&W 704, 705, 805, and Vandersteen 2Ce
The Vandersteens seeemed more comfortable for my tastes. I felt like the B&W were taxing to my ears. I may try the 3a my next visit but I was very pleased with the 2Ce at half the price.

Next up testing subs, ceters, and surrounds with the AVS300 and 2Ce fronts. If time permits test the 2Ce with the Rotel components again.

**jmc_htguide** · 17 March 2005, 11:29 Thursday

Video Update: The $200 rebate on the Panasonic AE700 proved too much to resist. I have purchased the projector ($1999 after rebate w/ 3 year warrantee) and love the view. I haven't decided how big to project the image so I haven't bought the screen yet, it looks great even on the wall!!

**sikoniko** · 17 March 2005, 17:37 Thursday

You should give sherwood/Newcastle a chance. I just sold my rotel 1055 in favor of the P-965. QUITE a significant difference. here is their receiver if you chose not to go seperates initially.:

http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_r965.html

It has the same innards of the P-965 with the 7 channel amp built in for $1500 retail. I have a connection that could get you a better deal than that even.

I will never buy rotel again based on my experience with my 1055.

**rdram** · 17 March 2005, 20:02 Thursday

I've been shopping for new separates and during travels, stopped into a newer AV store, explained I was looking for separates and spent the afternoon auditioning that Arcam receiver! List on that here was around $2100...if you can get it for $700, IMO it's worth serious consideration. One interesting thing is that the Arcam is a 7.1 receiver. If your only planning a 5.1 system, the other two unused channels can be reconfigured and you can bi-amp your fronts, which is a very cool option. Good luck.

**jmc_htguide** · 18 March 2005, 11:27 Friday

I got a chance to visit my local Integra, JMlabs, Paradigm, Definitive dealer yesterday and here are my impressions.

Electronics: Integra DTR 8.5 and 6.5. Both provided very warm sound, No significant difference (to my ears) in stereo listening using the JMLabs cobalt series 806 or 816 speakers

Speakers: JMLabs Cobalt 806s, 816s, Paradigm Studio 60
I thought the 816 wer the best of the three, room filling sound without emphasizing any one aspect of the music. The Paradigms seemed to push the bass and sacrifice the mid and high ranges. The 806s were suprisingly close to the 816s given there size. They didn't fill the room as much, but the difference was small enough that I may go with them so I can shelf mount.

I think my favorite speakers so far (from both tests) are the Cobalt 816s. I have spent about 1 1/2 hours with the Cobalt/Integra combo and about 1 hour with the Vandersteen/Arcam arrangement.

My next stage is to choose the center/subs, but I think the cobalts are my first choice so I will probably stick with the cobalt center. The dealer suggested the Definitive SuperCube 1 for the sub. I will test that combo this weekend.

Thanks to all of you for your continuing comments and suggestions!!!

Special mention goes to the continuing comments in the forum about buying what suits you own ears. I know the setup I'm leaning towards isn't for everyone, but I think I am making a very informed choice that best suits my listening preference.

... the saga will continue after the weekend!

**m_bathke** · 27 March 2005, 18:17 Sunday

Now I really hope you read this part, because if you don't know what I am about to tell you, you might get a big surprize in about a year. DO NOT HOOK UP A COMPUTER TO A DLP TV VIA THE DVI UNLESS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!!!!!!! The DLP chip is made to run at about 60hz, basically 60 frames per second. Now if you connect a computer to the DVI input the chip will run at what ever your computer tells it to, which could be as high as 95 frames per second, esentially overclocking the DLP chip. SO IF YOU DON'T MAKE A SPECIFIC TIMING FOR YOUR TV ON YOUR GRAFICS CARD YOU WILL INEVITABLY FRY THE DLP CHIP!!!!!!! The chip usually take about 6-8months to burn out, but they are around $2000 to replace.

I didn't look into what display type your projector was, but I just thought that you and everone else should know this if they didn't already. Just a friendly warning. I work for a place that sells the DLP TV's and we have had a few people try it and ruin their chips in the TV's.

**scobro** · 28 March 2005, 08:12 Monday

Check out Monitor Audio speakers (very good ) :T

LG :rofl:

**jmc_htguide** · 28 March 2005, 08:51 Monday

m_bathke: The AE700 is an 3 chip LCD monitor. I assume from your message only DLPs are effected so I am safe.
I did not now about the DLP issue however so thank you for posting the message!! I will keep this under consideration as I may be purchasing future projectors (helping my buddies into Home Theater after they see my setup). I love being an enabler!!

Buying all new system in June (Advice needed on Proposed components)

Buying all new system in June (Advice needed on Proposed components)

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