Cleaning Vinyl records?

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  • madmac
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2010
    • 3122

    Cleaning Vinyl records?

    Hey all,

    I'm curious as to how you all clean your vinyl records?. What do you use? Do you use a solvent at all? How do you remove dust off your records etc?

    I'm especially interested in DYI home made solutions and techniques to keeping your vinyl records clean and dust free!

    Let me know?
    Dan Madden :T
  • wkhanna
    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
    • Jan 2006
    • 5673

    #2
    When I initially got back into vinyl around eight years ago, I cleaned manually using cotton make-up removal pads from the drug store, micro-fiber towels, distilled water & a home-brewed solution of isopropyl alcohol & Dawn dish-washing liquid.

    Soon after, I then got a used VPI 16.5 vacuum record cleaning machine along with this brand cleaning solution & Aquafina water for rinsing.
    Smartest purchase of audio equipment I ever made, btw.

    I highly recommend one of these to anyone just starting out.

    Once cleaned, they then go into a fresh new anti-static record sleeve.

    After that, a quick swipe with a carbon fiber brush both before & after play, then back into the sleeve & album jacket.
    _


    Bill

    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

    FinleyAudio

    Comment

    • madmac
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2010
      • 3122

      #3
      Originally posted by wkhanna
      When I initially got back into vinyl around eight years ago, I cleaned manually using cotton make-up removal pads from the drug store, micro-fiber towels, distilled water & a home-brewed solution of isopropyl alcohol & Dawn dish-washing liquid.

      Soon after, I then got a used VPI 16.5 vacuum record cleaning machine along with this brand cleaning solution & Aquafina water for rinsing.
      Smartest purchase of audio equipment I ever made, btw.

      I highly recommend one of these to anyone just starting out.

      Once cleaned, they then go into a fresh new anti-static record sleeve.

      After that, a quick swipe with a carbon fiber brush both before & after play, then back into the sleeve & album jacket.
      So Bill you actually 'wet' clean your records?. Any effect on their sound?. I've heard that some people PLAY their records wet! I wonder what that sounds like!!??
      Dan Madden :T

      Comment

      • madmac
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2010
        • 3122

        #4
        Wow I just viewed your record cleaning machine! Quite the piece of Technology!
        Dan Madden :T

        Comment

        • John Holmes
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 2703

          #5
          Many years ago, I would use some homemade solution; an alcohol/water mix. But for the last few years, I have just use a brush. Currently using a Hunt EDA Mark 6. I've toyed with the idea of a machine cleaning device for years, I just never pull the trigger.
          "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

          Comment

          • wkhanna
            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
            • Jan 2006
            • 5673

            #6
            Originally posted by madmac
            So Bill you actually 'wet' clean your records?. Any effect on their sound?.
            The vast majority of my collection is records I have purchased used.
            The major reason is because this place Jerrys Used Records is just ten minutes from my house.
            Jerry's is one of the top five best places in the USA for finding excellent condition used vinyl.
            He has over one million discs in his shop, the other 7 million in his warehouse.

            The combination of 'wet' surfactant & grease-cutting cleaning solutions & water rinse along with strong vacuum have returned many of my dirty used purchases to near pristine condition.

            Regardless of whether there is or is not damage to the surface, even the best of cared-for vinyl will accumulate contaminates.

            Additionally, there are release agents & other additives used in the manufacturing process that leave contaminants on brand new vinyl.
            Never play a new album without first cleaning it well.



            Originally posted by madmac
            I've heard that some people PLAY their records wet! I wonder what that sounds like!!??
            And I have heard some people use leeches & blood-letting to cure disease.
            I wonder how well that is working for them?
            Last edited by wkhanna; 04 November 2014, 21:18 Tuesday. Reason: splneig corrtcoins
            _


            Bill

            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

            FinleyAudio

            Comment

            • r100gs
              Senior Member
              • May 2005
              • 321

              #7
              VPI 16.5 has treated me well also.
              Jay

              Comment

              • madmac
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2010
                • 3122

                #8
                I'm going to try a soft lint removing brush (The kind that removes lint from cloths) slightly moistened with alcohol ! What do you think of that cheap DYI record cleaning idea??!!
                Dan Madden :T

                Comment

                • wkhanna
                  Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 5673

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dan
                  What do you think of that cheap DYI record cleaning idea??!!
                  To be honest, Dan....this seems a V bad idea.



                  First, you should never let straight alcohol touch your vinyl.

                  Homemade solutions are typically made with distilled water mixed at a 5 or 10% ratio with pure isopropyl (Do not get the stuff marked 50/50 or some other ratio, it is mixed with water of whose purity is not stated) & 5-10% soap (typically an unscented, clear dishwashing liquid).

                  Secondly, it is in my personal estimation, quite foolish to use a brush made with bristles not intended to clean vinyl records.
                  The amount of damage you may cause is permanent.
                  The only thing I would recommend using to 'gently' scrub the vinyl is pure 100% cotton or a small piece of micro-fiber towel, or get some of this

                  Thirdly, after any cleaning, a thorough rinse is required to remove the cleaning solution & any dirt suspended in it.
                  You can gently pat it with a microfiber towel, then allow the vinyl to air-dry thoroughly.


                  ..or.... just string them on your antenna before you go thru the car wash.....

                  In the end, the only thing that matters is what value you place on 'your' vinyl.....
                  _


                  Bill

                  Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                  ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                  FinleyAudio

                  Comment

                  • Glen B
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 1106

                    #10
                    For the past few years I have been using the Audio-Technica AT6012 record care kit, which includes brush pad, base, and bottle of cleaning solution. In the 40+ years prior to that, my mainstay was always the Discwasher brush pads and solution. I have always actually used two brush pads, one on unsealed vinyl that may have extra dust and fingerprints, and the other on sealed albums and used ones that have already been cleaned. All of my vinyl purchases are either mint grade or sealed, and fairly clean to begin with, so I have never felt the need to use cleaning machines.


                    Comment

                    • wkhanna
                      Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 5673

                      #11
                      Sounds right as rain to me, Glen.

                      Let common sense rule the process.
                      _


                      Bill

                      Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                      ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                      FinleyAudio

                      Comment

                      • madmac
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 3122

                        #12
                        Originally posted by wkhanna
                        To be honest, Dan....this seems a V bad idea.



                        First, you should never let straight alcohol touch your vinyl.

                        Homemade solutions are typically made with distilled water mixed at a 5 or 10% ratio with pure isopropyl (Do not get the stuff marked 50/50 or some other ratio, it is mixed with water of whose purity is not stated) & 5-10% soap (typically an unscented, clear dishwashing liquid).

                        Secondly, it is in my personal estimation, quite foolish to use a brush made with bristles not intended to clean vinyl records.
                        The amount of damage you may cause is permanent.
                        The only thing I would recommend using to 'gently' scrub the vinyl is pure 100% cotton or a small piece of micro-fiber towel, or get some of this

                        Thirdly, after any cleaning, a thorough rinse is required to remove the cleaning solution & any dirt suspended in it.
                        You can gently pat it with a microfiber towel, then allow the vinyl to air-dry thoroughly.


                        ..or.... just string them on your antenna before you go thru the car wash.....

                        In the end, the only thing that matters is what value you place on 'your' vinyl.....

                        Just to be clear Bill, my records are pristine and do not need a deep cleaning or anything like that. All I'm talking about is lightly brushing the record immediately before playing it to remove standing dust (If any)........A record brush if you will.

                        For deep cleaning, I love your idea about hanging my records from my car antenna through the car wash!! Hehehe!!
                        Dan Madden :T

                        Comment

                        • wkhanna
                          Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                          • Jan 2006
                          • 5673

                          #13
                          Hi Dan!

                          It helps to now finally understand better what exactly your looking for.

                          I suggest you get one of these

                          or at least a carbon fiber dry brush like one of these


                          Edit: I always recommend cleaning your vinyl both before & AFTER playing.

                          Also, a nice clean new sleeve helps keep your efforts worthy.
                          Last edited by wkhanna; 07 November 2014, 12:36 Friday. Reason: Added Comments
                          _


                          Bill

                          Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                          ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                          FinleyAudio

                          Comment

                          • wkhanna
                            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 5673

                            #14
                            So Dan......

                            ...How long have you been spinning vinyl?

                            When did you get a TT & what kind is it?

                            Are you having fun?

                            Have you compared a vinyl album to the same one on SeeDee?

                            What are the differences you hear between your analog source & your digital source in your system?
                            _


                            Bill

                            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                            FinleyAudio

                            Comment

                            • madmac
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Aug 2010
                              • 3122

                              #15
                              Well Bill,

                              To be honest I just started spinning vinyl again......mostly for nostalgic reasons. I have a decent 80's Technics turntable. I bought a new Audio Technica cartridge and of course a pre-amp because my Rotel does not support a TT input.

                              Now as for the sound???......well.......for one thing, I wish the pre-amp could juice up the line level more! I have to turn my Rotel up ten points more to get the same volume I would get out of my CD player ( which is 70 on the dial!). Also, it takes awhile before my subs decide to turn on because of the weak signal. As well, I have to re-adjust my tone controls and sub volume for Vinyl to get it sounding decent live through my speakers.

                              However to be fair, my apartment is acoustically dead. The only thing that sounds good out of my speakers are movies and DVD concerts. Music MUCH less so. This is a personal thing as I prefer a more 'live' room for listening. This being the unfortunate case, most of my critical listening to music is done via my Grado headphones. When that's done, my Vinyl sounds fantastic! There's no denying the musical texture of vinyl. Even the bass has texture and it's very pleasant to listen to.

                              On the down side, I can't get over the feeling that modern amps and modern speakers (Mine have metal/ ceramic drivers) are designed for digital sources and perform better with those signals. Back in the 80's when I had speakers and amps designed and expecting analog sources and turntables, I found my vinyl sounded great with little or no adjustments needed.

                              I've just started spinning vinyl and I have some records that I also have on CD so I will be doingsomeA/B comparisons soon. I'll give you my thoughts shortly. Those comparisons will be done via my headphones for reasons of detail and neutrality.
                              Dan Madden :T

                              Comment

                              • John Holmes
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 2703

                                #16
                                I also pick up used albums from time-to-time. I tend to pass on those that would need "deep cleaning". But those that may have simple fingerprints or light dust, etcetera; I'll purchase. To get the fingerprints off, I will use a slightly damp microfiber cloth on.
                                "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                Comment

                                • madmac
                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Aug 2010
                                  • 3122

                                  #17
                                  Ok Bill here are my thoughts on Vinyl vs. digital CD's

                                  I decided to run my test using Billy Joel's "52nd street". If I'm not mistaken, this was one of the first CD's ever produced when the medium first came out. The CD is also one of the most 'neutral' I own. It's not loud and 'hot' like many modern CD's are and basically plays almost as loud as vinyl via my CD player.

                                  My Vinyl version is in excellent condition so the background vinyl noise and 'pops' are at a minimum (But via my headphones they are there but I have ignored them for this evaluation). I also adjusted the volumes of both formats to be exactly the same to avoid the 'louder is better' phenomenon.

                                  I was astounded at how good the Vinyl record sounded via my Grado headphones using a good headphone amplifier! Now bare in mind that some of the folks Vinyl gear here is vastly better than what I am spinning. Also I will admit that my CD player was Marantz's best player in the day (CD67SE) so the bar was set high for my modest old Technics turntable but with a brand new cartridge rated at 15-22khz.

                                  Playing "Rosalinda's eyes" (My favorite off this album) first in Vinyl version complete and then via the CD version complete, I was astounded at how little difference there was in the overall presentation in each of these formats! Now we must realize that CD mastering and the advent of digital studio recording technology have come a long way since this CD was first pressed (This CD was pressed off of an analog master). That being said, I found certain aspects of the presentation of this song via both the CD version and the vinyl version were in some cases slightly better than the other. I found the vocals were better and more forward in the CD version, but Marantz CD players are known for this beautiful 'vocal forward' effect. I like Jazz vocal material and my Marantz eats it up! The vinyl had 'slightly' better detail that my Grado headphones were able to detect. However, the CD version had more dynamic range and this was clearly evident across the board in my headphones. The cow bell at the end of 'Rosalinda's eyes' was more defined and forward in the CD version.

                                  In the end, I would give the CD version of this album a slight thumbs up over the vinyl one (15%) but the results were far from what I expected given the sonic, dynamic range, and frequency limitations of the vinyl format. In my opinion, Modern recordings done in the studio in 24 bit digital format and played back in that format (ie....DVD-audio) would be remarkably better sonically than what vinyl could deliver.

                                  Now bare in mind that some folks here have VASTLY better vinyl gear than my modest setup and there is no doubt in my mind that gear like that would probably trump CD's in that regard. This evaluation is only based on the gear that I have.

                                  I think I'm going to do another A/B test using a more modern remastered CD and the original vinyl version. I'll post my findings here again.
                                  Last edited by madmac; 09 November 2014, 09:04 Sunday.
                                  Dan Madden :T

                                  Comment

                                  • Alaric
                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2006
                                    • 4143

                                    #18
                                    On the down side, I can't get over the feeling that modern amps and modern speakers (Mine have metal/ ceramic drivers) are designed for digital sources and perform better with those signals. Back in the 80's when I had speakers and amps designed and expecting analog sources and turntables, I found my vinyl sounded great with little or no adjustments needed.
                                    I know exactly what you mean. At first I wrote it off to my TT from 30 years ago was a Yamaha PX 2 , a table that now has legendary status among some. And my Tandberg amp , A/D/S speakers , etc. , were all very good stuff. I thought I just had better stuff 30 years ago. Then I heard a SOTA TT through a quartet of MFA 250 watt tube monoblocks , bi-amping a pair of B & W 801s. Wow. But still something missing. I now believe that the missing piece of the puzzle is my ears. It had been 30 years!. There are probably lots of things that sound different because I can't hear it all anymore. Kind of sucks when your memory sounds better than your rig. LOL.
                                    Lee

                                    Marantz PM7200-RIP
                                    Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                                    Schiit Modi 3
                                    Marantz CD5005
                                    Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                                    Comment

                                    • madmac
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Aug 2010
                                      • 3122

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Alaric
                                      I know exactly what you mean. At first I wrote it off to my TT from 30 years ago was a Yamaha PX 2 , a table that now has legendary status among some. And my Tandberg amp , A/D/S speakers , etc. , were all very good stuff. I thought I just had better stuff 30 years ago. Then I heard a SOTA TT through a quartet of MFA 250 watt tube monoblocks , bi-amping a pair of B & W 801s. Wow. But still something missing. I now believe that the missing piece of the puzzle is my ears. It had been 30 years!. There are probably lots of things that sound different because I can't hear it all anymore. Kind of sucks when your memory sounds better than your rig. LOL.
                                      You make a very good point! Obviously, our hearing is not quite what it was 30 years ago!
                                      Dan Madden :T

                                      Comment

                                      • wkhanna
                                        Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Jan 2006
                                        • 5673

                                        #20
                                        Hi Dan.

                                        Here is a list of the dynamic range (compression) of all the different releases of the digital version & the vinyl album.
                                        This refers to the compression used in mixing the master, and not the dynamic range of analog vs digital.
                                        Keep in mind the mastering of each CD is different.
                                        Depending on which CD release you have, the forwardness you refer to may in fact be partially attributed to the amount of compression used during the mastering for the specific release that you have.

                                        Originally posted by Dan
                                        ....given the sonic, dynamic range, and frequency limitations of the vinyl format......
                                        This is actually a common misconception of vinyl's actual capabilities.


                                        I am so V glad to hear you are getting into vinyl!
                                        What phono pre are you using?
                                        Last edited by wkhanna; 15 November 2014, 15:58 Saturday. Reason: added stuff
                                        _


                                        Bill

                                        Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                        ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                        FinleyAudio

                                        Comment

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