Bryston/ATI Mix and Match - What Would You Do?

[Phil Rose]

I think that I know what I want to do but thought that I’d ask the opinion of the collective to see if I’m crazy or not.

I currently use an ATI AT1505 (150x5) a very nice clean amp that performs very well. I just upgraded my front three (B&W N802/HTM1) and wanted to make sure that they were all well driven.

My initial plan was to purchase a Bryston 4B-ST (250x2) for the mains and use two channels of the AT1505 to bi-amp the center. That would leave two channels of the ATI for surrounds and one channel unused.

Now I find out that Bryston is introducing the 6B-ST that is basically a three channel 4B but rated at (300x3). I don’t think that the increase from 250 to 300 is a big deal but having three channels of matched amp power does intrigue me. In this set up the AT1505 would just be wasted driving the surrounds however, would be standing ready for any possible upgrades that may come down the line which is not very likely in the near term – read rest of my life!

I think I like the 2+5 approach rather than the 3+5 since it is about $1K cheaper and the ATI really works well. What would you do?

[Jehan]

Your instincts are probably right, ATI does make fine stuff. I have always been a little biased toward Bryson because each time I audition one of their amps (properly setup of course) they amaze me. I would probably listen to both setups if that is possible, you may get a little more cohesive soundstage with the 3 ch Bryson powering the front. If you already invested in the B&Ws (fine speakers) you probably owe it to yourself to at least audition both. However, at that price point I think the 2+5 is better value for money, plus you are putting that ATI to good use. Looks to be a great setup

[Lexman]

Well, I personally don't believe that the center is as important from an imaging perspective, but I do like the idea of using amplifier channels with similar "sonic footprints". By this I mean, you don't "farm out" your center pre-processor duties, so why would you want to farm out the center from an amp perspective? Yes, saving 1K is important. But what about the opportunity cost of never quite being sure that you made the right decision.
Just guessing, you will find the ATI to be brighter than the Bryston. But that is pure speculation from what I have heard and read. Dialogue that is more fatiguing than music from left and right main would be distracting.

Additionally, obviously a 5 channel ATI is more valuable than an average 2 channel amp, right? So, if you go with matched power on the front, initially, yes it costs 1K more. But if you then find someone with a nice 2 channel amp that needs a 5 channel amp, you trade on the ATI, and apply the "boot" to the 1K coughed up earlier.

Personally, I do use my HPA-2 for main left and right, and 1 channel of my AMP5 for the center. But my amps are of very similar tonality, so I don't feel I loose any cohesiveness. My preference would be an HPA-3 for the front though. Of course, that wasn't in my original plan. Come to think of it, there really wasn't a plan. My speakers were significantly lower scale at the time, and I was looking for more power to drive the 10" woofs they sported. Well, at least the decision paid off sonically down the line.

A last consideration is, if you someday went with speakers that are more demanding via lower efficiency. With 300 watts, you have enough power in reserve.

Lex





<A HREF="http://www.catcables.com" <IMG SRC="http://www.htguide.com/lexman/other/sm_logo.gif"

[Jehan]

Well if he does 'upgrade' his B&Ws.. I wonder if he can generously donate it to faithful HTGuide readers

On a more serious note, the ATIs are a little on the bright side, but I think this fits well with the B&Ws.. or have in my listening experience. I think listening to both setups might be a worthwhile thing in this case... Good point Lex brings up about the center.. if you primarily interested in music this should not be a concern at all.

[Phil Rose]

Well… You'll be pleased to know that I'm still firmly planted on the fence!

You both make excellent points which is a key issue that I have making my decision:
**you may get a little more cohesive soundstage with the 3 ch Bryson powering the front.**
**I do like the idea of using amplifier channels with similar "sonic footprints".**

I use my system about 80/20 music/HT and this is the main reason that I started out to get the 4B (and why I posted in this section). Then I heard the N802/HTM1 playing a movie driven by the ATI and was amazed at the outstanding presentation across the front and don't want to jeopardize this feature.

So I don't want to pass on the opportunity to increase my investment in the amp by 1/3 and get three matched channels but then I don't want to miss the opportunity to have a great 2-channel system by messing things up with a 3 channel amp. I think that the concern of "messing things up" is pretty slim but one never really knows.

Jehan, Your comment "ATIs are a little on the bright side, but I think this fits well with the B&Ws" is right on target from what I've experienced. When I compared the N802s to Dynaudio Contour 3.0s I thought that the Dynas had a bathtub response curve, heavy bass/treble and lacking mids. Now that I have the B&Ws I'm finding that I have to re-educate my ear to appreciate the full rich mids so a little bright on the amp would be OK. You surely wouldn't want to combine a warm amp with these speakers. BTW I've also heard the Brystons described as bright so the match with the ATI may be good.

And the chances of trading the B&Ws for something less efficient are about 10**-4000000. Notice I didn't say zero.

[Phil Rose]

Sorry.. Double post.

[ThomasW]

Voicing issues aside. Bryston equipment is very high quality, and a tremendous investment. A statement that can't be said about a lot of equipment. If they offer something you like, and you have the money, buy it. You certainly won't regret the purchase. And you'll have a wonderful amp, that will last forever, and will easily drive virtually every speaker made.

BTW, they don't have a bright high-end, they are in fact quite neutral. But they are quite revealing. If the speaker/room combo is bright they will expose that




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Lexman]

Phil, it is true that I gave you a distinctively home theater answer even here in the two channel area. I did that because you are in fact using it for theater as you said. The suggestions I made would maximize both your 5 channel and 2 channel systems, but at a slightly higher price. Obviously, the final choice is yours. Either way, sure sounds like your system is doing quite well, so enjoy.

Lex

[Bruce]

Phil,

You raise some interesting issues. Myself, I thought long and hard about the multiple amp issue and finally decided to just use 2 Channels of my Parasound 1205A 5 channel amp to drive my Dynaudio Contour 2.8 towers (has the Confidence line tweeter). I use a separate Parasound 1000 Direct 2 Channel pre-amp (integrated into my HT system) for stereo music listening.

My ears tell me the Dyns produce some of the clearest and cleanest mid-range I have ever heard, IMHO. I compared the ATI and Parasound side by side in an A/B comparison test for an entire weekend and ended up with listening fatigue on the ATI/Dynaudio combination after only 30 minutes of serious listening (Jazz music like "Fourplay"). I also found the ATI to be a bit too harsh/bright for the Dynaudios.

I don't know if the design parameters for these two amps are similiar, regarding 2 channel and 5 channel use (flexible power draw to the channel(s) that need it), but maybe someone else can comment.

Good luck on your decision.

Bruce




Bruce
____________________________________________

[brucek]

Phil,

I'm a bit of a Bryston fan as you can see by my profile.
I would recommend going with the 2 channel 4BST for your mains.

The 4B like all Bryston amps is under-spec'd at 250watts. Each Bryston amp is tested for 100hours under full load and then a bench test is done to ensure it meets its stated specifications of THD at various frequencies and power and IMD and noise for all inputs.

I understand it to be very common and my spec sheets of my Bryston amps bear this out, the actual measured specs are much better than stated.

My 4BST measures at 298 and 297 watts. So this should help your concern over the 250/300 question.

I think if you like two channel music as I do, it is best to stick to a dedicated two channel amp for your mains.
This allows a lot of flexibility for the future - maybe some day you might want to get individual 7BST's for your mains.

In my book, HT isn't critical listening, forget about matching amps for your center - put your money into a great two channel amp.


brucek

[Phil Rose]

Thanks to all for the thoughtful input.

Just to keep you up to date on my indecision I am now seriously leaning in the direction of the 3-channel Bryston 6B-ST that has yet to show itself on the market. I know that the 802s will benefit from having a lot better amp driving them and I’m sure that the center HTM1 would also gain.

The Bryston’s have got such a good reputation I don’t think that anyone would ever go wrong picking up any of their amps, tried and true or new and unproven. When I auditioned the 802s and the Contour 3.0s side by side they were driven by a Levinson 335 (250wpc at 8 ohms) fed from a Wadia transport (model ?) and both speakers were superb. What seems to be missing using the ATI on the 802s is the vice like grip on the woofers that the Levinson had and yes, it was very, very smooth throughout the entire spectrum.

I agree fully with the statement that, “HT isn't critical listening” but by the same token I have been extremely impressed with the dead-on voicing of the 802/HTM1/AT1505 combination. The more that I think about it, the more I believe that it is worth while to try and preserve this by getting the 3-channel Bryston.

When the 6B is finally released the resolve of my decision will be put to the test, not to mention my bank account.

[Lexman]

Phil, if you loved the sound of the Levinson with the speakers of choice, why not give the Proceed a listen? Both are built by Madrigal, and the HPA series shares components with it's Levinson counterpart. No, they are not the same, but they are engineered very closely from my experience. Just with Levinson, you pay even more for the name.

But hey, again, hard to go wrong with Bryston from what folks say. Myself, I have never heard a Bryston amp.

Lex

[Steve]

My 4B measured 309 and 310 watts. I am very happy with it. I have never tried any other amp(s) with my 2.9's except my Yamaha 2095 although I would love to try.

Steve

[Phil Rose]

OK folks!

Here's what I did. In a moment of insanity I decided that I really didn't want to wait until mid-November for the 6B to get released so I ordered a pair of 7B-STs!

I guess that the pursuit of great 2-channel was just too overpowering for me to fight. Also, in thinking about it, the 7B's will absolutly control the 802's and drive them to the levels of performance that they are capable of without any possibility of falling short along the way.

I will use two channels of the AT1505 to bi-amp the HTM1. I think that this will work out just fine and will also make good use of the 1505. What do you think? Maybe a TT or two for the unused 1505 channel? Ha! Ha! This could go on forever couldn't it?

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

[Lexman]

Congrats on your decision Phil. Let us know how it works out.

Lex

[Phil Rose]

I thought that I'd let y'all know that the Bryston 7Bs got installed this weekend and they really are nice. They are sweet and clear as a bell with very low noise plus they really tightend up the bottom end. I always thought that the ATI was good, which it is, but these new amps are in a different class.

The ATI is now bi-amping the center and driving the surrounds and with the 7Bs on the 2 mains things couldn't be better. Add the HGS18 subwoofer and the system knocks my socks off! I watched T2 at reference level and it was scary.

Thanks for the advise. I'm a happy camper!

[JohanK]

Woohoo, another member for Club Bryston (hint hint ). Congrats Phil, I'm sure you enjoy the amps for many years.