Why do you like your speakers?

[Crimson]

Hey, I'll admit it, I'm a planar kinda guy. Don't really think I'll ever go back to cones. And here's some adjectives why:
1. Transparency
2. Realism
3. Accuracy
4. Holographic
5. Natural
6. Soundstage width and depth
7. Imaging
Does this mean these are the end-all in speaker technology? Absolutely not. Notice I put imaging at the bottom of my list. Because of the dipole nature and the mechanism by which planars reproduce sound, cones tend to excel in the following areas:
1. Pinpoint imaging
2. Somewhat better dynamics
3. Deeper low end.
But then of course, we can talk about hybrids like Martin Logan and Sound Lab speakers which use planar/electrostatic drivers with cones.
So, why do you appreciate the your speakers?




Q.

[Bob Santos]

Crimson,, Nice idea for a thread.
My main speakers are definitive Technology BP 30s.
My system is used 90% of the time for HT. I fell in love with the bi polar sound fot HT. If 2ch was more important to me I'm sure I would have made a different choice. Allthough I love the way they sound for HT, 2ch is a bit on the strange side with the bi polar's.
So what I like about them.
1. They were in my price range.
2. They produce a very open sound for HT. Everything comes from the right spot, but cant quite pinpoint where that is. They never draw my attention to the speaker.
3. They reproduce bass very well.

[JonMarsh]

Good idea for a thread, Crimson

My home speakers are DIY, have been since my last Maggies, bought in 1976. First DIY speakers I built were in 1972, "klones" of the AR LST.

My current speakers are "klones" with some conceptual mods of the Wilson X1 SLAMM. The thinking behind these changes is in line with the thinking behind Avalon Acoustics (founded by a friend of mine, who was strongly influenced by some prototype speakers I built in the 70's and have to him when I got married). These speakers have realized the performance goals I expected based on the X1 Super Linear Audio Monitor concept and the concepts behind Avalon speakers, which is to only use drivers in their pistonic region, to select for drivers with maximum pistonic bandwidth, and to optimize the Q of the LF alignment for transient response (Q=0.5 or less).

1. Transparency and clarity comparable to well designed planar speakers, due to reduction of cabinet and driver induced resonances. With SACD, almost like headphone connection to master tape.

2. Large listening area, due to large vertical launch window in "power" region of spectrum (100-250), which usually suffers most from room interactions. (this is a characteristic of most planar speakers, also), and controlled vertical and horizontal dispersion in midrange to high frequencies; wide vertical window even at upper crossover point.

3. Good agreement between direct early sound and room reverberent power response; sound is more natural in all parts of room, and in adjacent rooms.

4. Excellent voice and midrange reproduction- human singing voice, piano, violin, guitar to die for. (blame the Eton 7" kevlar honeycomb drivers and Focal tweeter). (SACD helps, too)

5. Soundstage width and depth- which derives from the above.

6. Awesome micro and macro dynamics, due to low inherent driver distortion and minimal cabinet resonances at normal playback levels (85-100 dB).
(system weighs 385 lbs per speaker- cabinets are *very* dense and heavy)(max SPL capability is about 112-118 dB)

7. Excellent bass reproduction- overdamped alignment tuned to 26 Hz, with shelving EQ to equalize LF output (~3dB/octave boost, from 125 down to 30 Hz), plus excellent midbass to low bass balance over wide area of listening position- very satisfying on string bass, percussion, and bass guitar sounds like bass *guitar*, not like a synthesizer.


Drawbacks:

1. Room positioning of the speakers is still fairly critical; use a combination of Wilson's voicing method, inverse positioning/listening, and RPG Acoustics software to evaluate best room position. Dipole speaker should be less room critical- new projects are with dipole designs, such as ThomasW's Legacy Whisper clones).

2. To get best control over bass performance, required to build custom electronic crossover with EQ for baffle step response and LF response. Expensive to develop low coloration design. Requires two sets of amplifying channels.

3. Big, tall, and heavy. Not very "esthetic"- Maggies and the like have much better SO acceptance. See pic.

4. Work best in larger rooms, with high ceiling.

5. Requires amps comfortable with 3-4 ohm load, occasionally difficult phase angle.

6. Have to watch playback levels- can enter ear bleed levels without realizing it at first, due to "ease" and freedom from distress in reproduction.






Regards,

Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[Crimson]

Bob,
You may be surpised at what 2 bipolar speakers do for 2-channel music. maggies are bipolar i.e they radiate from the front and rear which is why, I think, they have an expansive soundstage yet slightly unfocused imaging.

Jon,
CAN YOU MAKE ME A PAIR???




Q.

[JonMarsh]

Hi Crimson,

First, I'd have to convince ThomasW to help me build a second set of cabinets- we did them in his basement- it was several weeks of work spread out over vacations taken in Colorado over two years!
We're going to post a complete article on the project, cabinet designs, crossover schematics (passive and active), pics, measured performance, etc., on Tom's KloneAudio site. I've just had a hard time between my workload at job, and my teeanage daughter, to finish up all the documentation! Well, and I've been frittering away time building HTPC's and horsing around with video stuff, too.

Regards,

Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[John Kotches]

Because they're paid for

Seriously, like Crimson, I'm a planar junkie, currently running Acoustat Spectra 22s for my mains.

Mostly, it's two things: timbral accuracy -- planar loudspeakers are famous for extremely low (amplifier level) distortion, most cone and horn based speakers have distortion in the 1+% range!

Transient clarity. Drum hits, and guitar attacks, etc, etc, etc are very lifelike -- seeming to start and stop instantaneously. Considering that the weight of the panel is usually lighter than the air it's driving that's reasonably close to the truth.

That's enough from me for tonight.

Regards,




---
Editor, PC/Home Theater
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
My Home Theater
NEC LT-150 specific page.

[John Holmes]

My LCR are M&K 750's. When I decided on this speaker I had two goals; 1)Find a speaker that would come as close as possible (timbre) to my THX rears, 2)Stay below four hundred each.

I really enjoy what they do. This is a painfully honest speaker. It seems that most have a love hate feeling for this model. The only time that I felt cheated by this speaker, is when I listened to a set of OM-7's two weeks ago. But, I should have. The Mirage set is another animal and not a fair comparison by any means.

When I bought the M&K's they had just hit the street and I payed $269 each plus tax. For my needs this was a steal! A lot of accurate, dynamic sound for the money.




"I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's

[Andrew Pratt]

Well I'm a planner guy now as well. Going back a few months I was having major problems getting any sort of imaging from my Energy C-2 speakers in my room. I then started looking for a solution that ended when I got my first set of Maggies (MMGs) I'm now completely hooked for all the reasons mentioned above...simply put to me they are very life-like.

[Lexman]

Damn, where's the Italian Stallion been? I guess I been out "Cattin'" around, lol. Ok, of course, I love my Sonus faber handbuilt loudspeakers. I have done reviews on them here, well quick reviews anyway. Maybe I can dig that up out of the cellar.

But anyway, I always tell people to expect the best out of the 1st order crossover Sf line of speakers. However, I am tempering my comments with the fact I have no experience with the new Home Series currently available. All mine are "old model" speakers, and highly regarded I might add.

All the Sonus faber cabinets to my knowledge are handbuilt. The quality is such that you tend to liken them to instruments a little more than speakes. The tonality of the cabinets are just perfect, IMO. I used to know the driver makeup, but have since forgotten.

My Concerto Grand Piano mains sport contoured piano black sides, leather front rear top and bottoms, and sit atop Italian Marble called "Sedementary stone". Of course, high quality bi-wirable terminals. 2 way system with passive radiator. Only gripe with the speaker is that if I overcook the SPLs in theater mode and full range, the passive radiators can flutter rather grotesquely. Solution? Cross over at 80 for movies on the mains, and all is well. For music, sometimes, I flip to full range, and turn the subs off. My other Sonus faber are Concerto side speakers with beautiful Walnut side panels, again, leather front and rear, but a front ported 2-way design. The center I think is either rear ported or sealed, lol. That's bad that I don't really know, but do I need to as long as it does it's job? 100% leather wrapped.

Anyway, I love the Sonus faber speakers of old, but not sure about this new Home Series. I have heard that they are brighter than the older model. The tweeters did change. unless it was due to cost, I could not imagine making this change.

Lex

[Crimson]

Let's see:
Maggies
DefTech's
Wilsons
M&K's
SF's
Nice variety here. Lex, do you have names for your leather-clad beauties?




Q.

[Wireless]

I expect that the ones I own will probably be the last main pair I buy. I have owned these for 3 years and still marvel at them.

1. Transparency
2. Accuracy
3. Dynamic capability
4. Pinpoint imaging
5. Expansive soundstage
6. Bass fairly flat to 20hz
7. 3 dimensional
8. Handbuilt quilted makore finish

My front setup with the Waveform Mach 17s and MC center can be seen here: http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=show_photo&ID_Community=MilleEmpo rium&ID_Topic=5&ID_Message=6

Too bad the company went out of business, because I couldn't complete a 7.1 system if I wanted to.




John
My HT Picts

[Lexman]

Those things are beautiful John! I expect if I owned those, they would never be sold. If you ever hear of a pair of these for sale, let me know, ok? I am very curious about these. Potential 2 channel setup someday.

Joe, you mean Maria, Veronica, and ... ? lol.

Lex

[Wireless]

I'll be sure and keep my eyes open Lex, although I have never seen a used pair for sale. I thnk only around 45 pairs were ever sold.

Now if you had one named Betty and your sub named Jughead......




John
My HT Picts

[Crimson]

John,
Very nice there. I had heard these are incredible speakers.

BTW, i've got names for my 3.6's: Jenna and Marilyn .




Q.

[Wireless]

Joe, I'm biased so I agree! These are the show pair from the 97 Stereophile show in San Francisco. I got to hear all of top speakers of the time (except for the Avalons), X-1 Grand Slamms, Utopias, Proacs, Watt/Puppies, and others. I liked these as well as the X-1s (don't think they can fill up a room the way an X-1 can), and a heck of a lot cheaper. I love those Maggies of yours as well, but I had a small room at the time and was looking at the 20s. I don't think the 3.6s were out in 97?

Now I gotta give mine a name. Gertrude and Edna?




John
My HT Picts

[Lexman]

Thanks John. Maybe I could hear them sometime? (hint hint) lol.

Lex

[Wireless]

lol! No hint required, but I think we should wait until I move into a house later on in the year. I think my apartment dwelling neighbors would pitch a fit if we got into demo mode.I've already been accused of knocking paintings off the wall four apartments over...




John
My HT Picts

[Bing Fung]

Why do I like my Speakers?

Because I don't have Jon's and if I fixated on the things I don't have, I couldn't enjoy the things I do have....

That or I would drop kick them off the CN tower




Bing

[Markj]

I have Apogee slant 8 hybrids speakers. As mentioned before with planner speakers they are accurate transparent and natural. It will be a very sad day when one of my ribbons goes south. At least I know the members here have some alternate choises fore replacement.

[ThomasW]

Wow busy thread

Let's see too catch up

Markj

This URL might be of interest

http://www.apogeespeakers.totalserve.co.uk/

John Miller

If you're a DIY kind of guy, the egg shaped enclosures are available. There are 2 versions, a composite one from

http://members.aol.com/UltSpeaker/

and there's a "pulp" version. I'll need to do a little more looking to find the supplier




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Markj]

Thanks Thomas that is a great link for me! Lots of good info!

[Wireless]

Thanks for the great information Thomas, I haven't been a DIYer, but have been wanting to build a subwoofer for the .1 and rear channels. It's good to know I may be able to build additional matching channels if needed. I only saw spherical shaped enclosures, did I miss the egg shaped ones?




John
My HT Picts

[ThomasW]

John

He'll make any shape you want.

I know I've seen a place that offers the exact same enclosures Waveform used, but I can find the URL.

Why don't you contact John Otvos, he has this posted on the old website. He might have some enclosures for sale, or know the best way to find some.

snip>>
If you have any interest in either of these or wish to speak with John Ötvös personally, please contact the writer at waveform@lks.net.

This message was created on January 25, 2001.

John Ötvös
Telephone (613) 475-3633
snip>>

Another option would be to watch Audiogon and the classified section of AudioReview for used speakers




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Wireless]

Actually John Otvos and I have corresponded many times, and I was fortunate enough to buy my pair from him in person. Thanks for the information, if I get to the point of adding two more channels, I certainly will contact him. My main thinking right now is that I'm using the two Mach 17s with 2 x 12" woofers in each cabinet, about -2 db at 20hz, pretty good. Proceed AVP set to large L/R and small center/surrounds. Would adding a sub to handle the .1 channel be an improvement, or should I use an outboard crossover with a highpass filter to the center, with a sub. and share a sub between the two surrounds, or just leave well enough alone. The system is definitely not lacking in low bass slam, impact, or definition. Since it in efect has two subs now.




John
My HT Picts