Punchy pop songs without low bass?

[AwArEnEsS]

I sometimes listen to songs which are called "dance hits" or dj remix on cds or web. While listening to many of them, I don't feel punching bass, if I crank the volume too much then it has a bit better punch but I can't do that cause there are other houses next to our house(although they are detached) and also it may damage my hearing.

If the bass is very low frequency,sure,I can feel the bass very good,no problem. But it seems in most pop songs I do not feel the bass at my gut,neither using subwoofer nor just my floorstanding speakers.

I think we can try this: For example, you write a few of pop songs which has punchy bass(and can be listened on youtube) but doesn't have low frequency bass.Then I will try those songs and see if I can feel the punchy-bass using my audio system.

[Alaric]

Sheryl Crow's 'I shall Believe' , 'Du Hast' by Rammstein. I'm not real familiar with modern pop music , but in my experience , the "punch" is usually above the range of most subwoofers. I'm under the impression the "sub" in subwoofer indicates subsonic. Most of what I would term punchy is 150 Hz and above. I could be way off , so I'm looking forward to more knowledgeable folks chiming in.

[madmac]

Some music is recorded 'hot' and has piles of bass while other stuff (Mostly older music) has less. I know this may seem obvious but you can simply turn up the bass on your system any time you wish right?

Another thing is your sub. You can turn that volume up as well? As well, you might want to change your sub's crossover frequency to a higher cutoff which will send more of the bass to the sub which is more equipped to deal with lower frequencies. That might get you more of the 'punch' you're looking for?

[AwArEnEsS]

Thanks for your answers.

Alaric, I tried both of the songs you told me and neither of them gave me gut-punching bass using my system.

madmac wrote:
I know this may seem obvious but you can simply turn up the bass on your system any time you wish right?

By turning up bass, do you mean bass level on receiver?I generally don't play with it cause I think it adds artificial bass and some people had said me that I shouldn't have changed standard setting.(some audioplhiles seem against for it???)

madmac wrote:
Another thing is your sub. You can turn that volume up as well? As well, you might want to change your sub's crossover frequency to a higher cutoff which will send more of the bass to the sub which is more equipped to deal with lower frequencies. That might get you more of the 'punch' you're looking for?

By turning that volume up, do you mean turning the sub's volume by receiver(inncreasing channel level in db) or do you mean the master level knob on sub?I have read online that increasing the master level on sub is risky, a person wrote on a forum that in his subwoofer's manual it warned not to turn the master level knob more than 2 o'clock.Though when I asked my subwoofer's company's online help(email) he replied me that I could change any of the knobs to anywhere...

Now the master level on my sub is about 1:30 or 2 o'clock and receiver's channel level of subwoofer is +3db.I generally use sub at auto mode and when I start playing some song,if sub is not on, there is a delay before sub starts running,and when it starts it is easy to notice it's grunt, it looks it is running pretty loud too.

X-over on my receiver is currently 100hz.The upper one is 150 but my subwoofer can't deliver more than 130 so I can only use 100hz max.

[Alaric]

I may be having a different conversation than the OP. When I think 'punchy' , I think crisp , sharp , well defined with 'clean edges' , when it hits. That is usually what is now considered lower mids. Very low bass is not very directional , and subwoofer output never struck me as having much detail. The beginning of Black Sabbath's N.I.B is a great example. After the opening bass solo (which is outstanding , BTW) the main body of the song crashes into the speakers with what I would call 'punch'. I just never got anything I would describe that way from a subwoofer , other than the subsonic thump , which is as much physical as musical.

edit: Quick thought. Led Zeppelin's concert album , Celebration Day , has a track called In My Time Of Dying that has what I think is some pretty good kick drum punch. It starts early , during the opening slide guitar riff (also outstanding). If that drum doesn't have a George Foreman size punch we can go from there.

[madmac]

Thanks for your answers.

Alaric, I tried both of the songs you told me and neither of them gave me gut-punching bass using my system.



By turning up bass, do you mean bass level on receiver?I generally don't play with it cause I think it adds artificial bass and some people had said me that I shouldn't have changed standard setting.(some audioplhiles seem against for it???)



By turning that volume up, do you mean turning the sub's volume by receiver(inncreasing channel level in db) or do you mean the master level knob on sub?I have read online that increasing the master level on sub is risky, a person wrote on a forum that in his subwoofer's manual it warned not to turn the master level knob more than 2 o'clock.Though when I asked my subwoofer's company's online help(email) he replied me that I could change any of the knobs to anywhere...

Now the master level on my sub is about 1:30 or 2 o'clock and receiver's channel level of subwoofer is +3db.I generally use sub at auto mode and when I start playing some song,if sub is not on, there is a delay before sub starts running,and when it starts it is easy to notice it's grunt, it looks it is running pretty loud too.

X-over on my receiver is currently 100hz.The upper one is 150 but my subwoofer can't deliver more than 130 so I can only use 100hz max.

Absolutely you can turn up the bass on your receiver when you think an album is sounding thin. There's NOTHING wrong with that. I've set up my system so that it needs a minimum amount of frequency adjustment but I still use my tone controls on occasion. Most of the time in my case it's to lower the bass......not increase it.

As for the sub.......I still recommend trying the 150Hz crossover just for the sake of trying it to hear if it makes a difference. As well, I would keep the sub's master volume set to around 12 O'clock and then use your receiver's sub volume output adjustment to make it louder when needed. At 2 O'clock, your pushing the amp a little hard in my opinion. And as always, remember sub placement is paramount so feel free to fool around with it's location.

[AwArEnEsS]

Thanks for your answers.

Alaric wrote:
edit: Quick thought. Led Zeppelin's concert album , Celebration Day , has a track called In My Time Of Dying that has what I think is some pretty good kick drum punch. It starts early , during the opening slide guitar riff (also outstanding). If that drum doesn't have a George Foreman size punch we can go from there.

Alaric,I tried that song on youtube , but still I am not able to feel kickdrums at my gut...

madmac, I tried 150hz x-over but I didn't like the result.I replaced subwoofer's placement a bit, it was at the corner of the room and I moved it a bit,it's not in the corner now but I didn't feel much change.Maybe I should try more but isn't corner of the room considered as the loudest bass placement?

I want to measure output level but I don't have a Splmeter.I tried two Spl meter apps on Android , one of them looks horrible because even there is not music it measures 80db. The other one is called Spl Meter(or spl meter pro) I think it is better but I am not sure if it's accurate.When I try to measure db while listening to music(with my usual volume level), it shows about 60db generally...

[madmac]

A corner placed sub will get you more 'Boom' but not more 'punch'. In the corner, you are just ASKING for standing wave issues with a sub, as well with speakers in general.

What size sub do you have and how much power does it deliver ?

[AwArEnEsS]

Thanks for your answer.

My subwoofer has a 12 inches driver and it delivers 1500W Rms(interestingly they added "Short Term" next to Rms).

[madmac]

A 12" sub should be able to deliver plenty of bass and punch. Have you thought about the possibility of getting a second sub? Many members here have two, including myself.

A good test for subs is Steely Dan's DVD "Two against nature". This is a fabulously recorded disc and you should definitely be feeling punch when you spin that disc!! Good luck with your Punch journey !!

[AwArEnEsS]

Thanks for your answer. If I listen to Steely's album on youtube(if there is) is it the same thing or should I buy dvd?(unfortunately I have to order from amazon site(overseas)).

madmac wrote:
A 12" sub should be able to deliver plenty of bass and punch.

I am happy to hear that , sometimes I regret buying this subwoofer.

Two subs are not possible for now ( no budget for it currently).

I decided not to turn up the volume much(for a while and so I will not be able to test subwoofer much),because yesterday I turned the volume alot and after listening for about 15-20 seconds ,when I turned down the volume, I heard a police or ambulance horn and a little siren sound and it was very near,(we are not living in an apartment,we live in a seperate home but there are other houses next to ours) and I was almost about to faint from fear...

[madmac]

YouTube videos do not cut it audio wise. You'll have to spin the DVD in DTS for maximum effect. What brand subwoofer are you using? Also, where are you located?

[AwArEnEsS]

Thanks for your answer.

YouTube videos do not cut it audio wise. You'll have to spin the DVD in DTS for maximum effect. What brand subwoofer are you using? Also, where are you located?

My subwoofer is JL Audio 112.I am from Turkey.

[AwArEnEsS]

Sorry JL audio e112 I meant.

[AwArEnEsS]

In a disco, almost constantly I feel bass at my gut , is it low bass-mid bass-upper bass or a mix of them which cause that?

Alaric wrote:
edit: Quick thought. Led Zeppelin's concert album , Celebration Day , has a track called In My Time Of Dying that has what I think is some pretty good kick drum punch. It starts early , during the opening slide guitar riff (also outstanding). If that drum doesn't have a George Foreman size punch we can go from there.

Should I feel the punch with subwoofer or speakers?