Oppo BDP-95 or BDP-93 + External DAC

[audioqueso]

I have $1000 for my new audio toy.
Time to upgrade the source. Looking for recommendations

Short Background.
I recently brought out my Technics turntable. Added a Audio-Technica 150MLX cartridge, rewired the inners, and bought a Cambridge Audio 640P. The results were astonishing. It's sad how much better LPs sound compared to my CDs or HTPC. So I think that my digital sources are just not up to snuff.


I've been wanting to buy an Oppo blu-ray player because I don't want to use two different components to play DVDs and BDs (multiple regions).

$1k buys me a BDP-95. I would be set on an excellent multi-region DVD/BD player. And I would be set on CDs since the BDP-95 is acclaimed as a very good CD player. HDMI for movies. RCA for CD playback. However, I play most of my music off my HTPC.

$500 buys me a BDP-93 and leaves me $500 for an external DAC. HDMI for movies. And I could use the digital out from both the BDP-93 AND the HTPC for music playback.

However, the question is... will any of these options bring CD's to the quality of LP's? I mean, it seriously is THAT much of a difference. And I've been showing this off to everyone lately. Perhaps the LP setup combo that I have just works well, and that's why I am that impressed with it. Who knows, but it's just embarrassing how little CDs and my HTPC sounds compared to the LPs. The soundstage is sick as it feels like the music is spread all across the room. And it's just soooooo smooth!

So does anyone have any experience with the BDP-95 to say it's worth it? Or is there a $500 range DAC that combined with a BDP-93/HTPC would be just as good?
...well, enough so that my LP doesn't put it to shame anymore.

[audioqueso]

By the way, I think the RME 9632 soundcard that I had would be a match... but I can't use that anymore as I changed my HTPC to a small case (low-profile only). So external DAC only.

[aarsoe]

Hey

First. if your current gear don't support balanced input, then there is no reason to get the BDP-95. One set of the DA converters are purely reserved for the balanced output. As much as I like my BDP-95 I would never advise anyone to purchase it if they where not going to use XLR or plan to only connect via HDMI. For that the BDP-93 will give you what you want.
My suggestion would be to get the BDP-93 and then keep your money in your pocket.
Also I find it hard to believe you will ever find a external dac that can keep up for $ 500.

[Kal Rubinson]

First. if your current gear don't support balanced input, then there is no reason to get the BDP-95. One set of the DA converters are purely reserved for the balanced output.

As I understand it, that set of DA converters is reserved for the stereo L/R outputs, XLR or RCA. They are not usable with the 7.1 set. So, I do not think your advice is correct.

[Johnloudb]

So does anyone have any experience with the BDP-95 to say it's worth it?

I can't speak for the BDP-95 but we have the BDP-93 special edition with the NuForce mod. It has the same DACs as the BDP-95. It's stereo output is very nice, musical, even "analog" like, and we prefer it to our Benchmark DAC. Though, nothing will make CDs sound like LPs. I don't know if a $500 DAC will compete with it, and you'd want to get a good digital cable to, to reduce effects of jitter.

[audioqueso]

One set of the DA converters are purely reserved for the balanced output.

This part is interesting. Kal mentioned otherwise. I will need to find out for sure because that would make a big difference to me since I do not have XLR inputs.

Also I find it hard to believe you will ever find a external dac that can keep up for $ 500.

Meaning, you think not DAC under $500 + BDP-93 will perform on par with the BDP-95... is that correct?

...and we prefer it to our Benchmark DAC.

Interesting. You have the Benchmark DAC1 one, but you still prefer the BDP-93 Nuforce Edition, huh.

Though, nothing will make CDs sound like LPs.

Yes, I understand that. What I meant is that I would like to have my digital music reach close to the same caliber of sound quality as my LP setup.

I don't know if a $500 DAC will compete with it..

Second person to state that...
I really have no idea what caliber of quality a $500 DAC will give me. I'm stating $500 because that is what I would have left over if I buy a BDP-93 as oppose to a BDP-95.


John, why did you decide to go for the Nuforce edition instead of Oppo's own BDP-95? Also, do you have the $900 Nuforce Edition or the $1400 Xtreme Edition?

[Kal Rubinson]

This part is interesting. Kal mentioned otherwise. I will need to find out for sure because that would make a big difference to me since I do not have XLR inputs.

(1) Read the documents at OppoDigital.
(2) I can confirm it with my subjective comparison of the stereo RCA output with the L/R RCA output from the 7.1 set.

[Johnloudb]

Interesting. You have the Benchmark DAC1 one, but you still prefer the BDP-93 Nuforce Edition, huh.

My apologies I typed the wrong model. We have the discontinued BDP-83 Special Edition with the NuForce mod (NuForce Edition). This is the one with the same DACs that are in the BDP-95, not the BDP-93.

One of the new NuForce players could be the way to go, but I wouldn't know. They no longer offer a mod to the BDP-95 as they think it's not worth the extra cost, and they say their BDP-93 Nuforce Extreme edition is reference quality.

John

[aarsoe]

As I understand it, that set of DA converters is reserved for the stereo L/R outputs, XLR or RCA. They are not usable with the 7.1 set. So, I do not think your advice is correct.

Kal

Agree, but if your not running in dual differential mode then what is the difference to the regular set of DACs?
The output result should be the same for two channel audio..

[audioqueso]

(1) Read the documents at OppoDigital.

Exactly my thoughts.

Agree, but if your not running in dual differential mode then what is the difference to the regular set of DACs?

I think the point he was making is that both the balanced and unbalanced path are using the same DACs. That is what I'm getting from the documents. I don't see anything stating that the balanced path uses a different DAC.


Nuforce BDP-83 Special Edition. Got it. Thank you for the clarification.
Regardless, it sounds to me like no $500 DAC is going to give me the results that either the BDP-95 or Nuforce's BDP-83 is going to provide huh.

It kinda sucks because I was kinda hoping that a $500 DAC would yield similar results. Why was I hoping for that? Because I mostly use my HTPC to listen to music. But it's no big deal. After hearing how good these LP sound, I really just wanted to give my digital music as big a boast as possible under $1000 (while purchasing a new blu-ray player).

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal

Agree, but if your not running in dual differential mode then what is the difference to the regular set of DACs?
The output result should be the same for two channel audio..

The MCH outs use one 8channel chip. The stereo outs, RCA and XLR, use the other 8channel chip, 4 channels for each of the L and R outputs. While there might be a different connection configuration for the RCA and XLR outputs (I really do not know about that), the use of the multple DACs increases the SNR for both.

[Kal Rubinson]

Regardless, it sounds to me like no $500 DAC is going to give me the results that either the BDP-95 or Nuforce's BDP-83 is going to provide huh.

And no external DAC will handle SACD, either.

[audioqueso]

...the use of the multple DACs increases the SNR for both.

Interesting. I did not know that.
So are you suggesting that an external DAC in the $500 may be a better option for me??? Or the opposite?

And no external DAC will handle SACD, either.

That's ok. I'm not really concern about SACD though.

[aarsoe]

The MCH outs use one 8channel chip. The stereo outs, RCA and XLR, use the other 8channel chip, 4 channels for each of the L and R outputs. While there might be a different connection configuration for the RCA and XLR outputs (I really do not know about that), the use of the multple DACs increases the SNR for both.

Kal

Not looking for a word fight, but my two cent are that if your not using the balanced outputs, and unless your gear is really good I am not sure the extra money is well spent on the Bdp-95 vs the bdp-93.
Besides, if he is using the multichannel output with a two channel signal, the why would it not use 4 Pr channel? That would also explain some reviews where the RCA out on the 93 & 95 have almost 100% same s/n..

Will add that if he needs a region unlock kit, then the budget is over anyway..

No matter what I strongly suspects that either choice will make him happy..

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal

Not looking for a word fight, but my two cent are that if your not using the balanced outputs, and unless your gear is really good I am not sure the extra money is well spent on the Bdp-95 vs the bdp-93.

I know but I found that the stereo RCA outputs are an improvement on the L/R from the 7.1 set and an improvement on the predecessor 83SE.

Besides, if he is using the multichannel output with a two channel signal, the why would it not use 4 Pr channel?

Because the 4perchannel DAC connection is reserved for the stereo jack sets and NOT for the multichannel output. In fact, Oppo recommends for best multichannel analog that the user connect the FrontL and FrontR amps to stereo L/R output jacks (RCA or XLR) and the remaining amps to the appropriate jacks on the 7.1 set.

That would also explain some reviews where the RCA out on the 93 & 95 have almost 100% same s/n..

No comment as I have not read such but JA and will be doing a follow-up on the 95 with his bench testing.

[Kal Rubinson]

Interesting. I did not know that.
So are you suggesting that an external DAC in the $500 may be a better option for me??? Or the opposite?


That's ok. I'm not really concern about SACD though.

Both options are good ones. I cannot decide for you, especially since we subscribe to different esthetics vis a vis the superiority of your analog setup.

[audioqueso]

Besides, if he is using the multichannel output with a two channel signal, the why would it not use 4 Pr channel?

Sorry, perhaps I didn't explain it properly.
I would be using the I would be using HDMI for watching movies.
For CD, I would not need the tv on, so I would be using the RCA outputs and just have the pre/pro/source turned on.

Will add that if he needs a region unlock kit, then the budget is over anyway..

That's already taken care of so not included in the budget.

Both options are good ones. I cannot decide for you, especially since we subscribe to different esthetics vis a vis the superiority of your analog setup.

lol... good point. Well, it wouldn't help mentioning my components, would it?
However, your suggestions as well as everyone else's is always welcomed and greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[realalan]

I've recently just got the BDP-95; so it's still 'burning' in. I've listened to some red book, K2HD and SACD on it on with 'pure audio' mode via XLR. Compared to switching between my Classe CDP-102, only the SACDs (so far), really make an impact and difference.

If you're interested in a complete all round disc player, suggest you listen to the BDP-93 NuForce edition as a comparison. The video section for both the standard 93 and 95 are virtually the same.

Suggest an audition is the best way forward between the 93 and 95.

[audioqueso]

Alan,
Thanks for the suggestions.
It's not so much the 93 vs 95. I know the 95 would be better if I used it as a CD player. What I'm trying to see if if the 93 combined with an external DAC in the $500 range could come close to the 95 (since it would equal costing the same).
Auditioning a 95, a 93, plus an external DAC would be tricky as I have no idea what DAC to even consider that would put the 93 near 95's caliber.

[realalan]

I guess an external DAC would give you the flexibility to connect more components eg network files. However, with a budget of 500$ for an external DAC is going to be a challenge! What about cables to connect between the transport and DAC- once you add all of these in you may be looking at a 95! The 95 does support some networking (although unofficially in manual)- it can read my audio files on an networked server no problem.

[aarsoe]

Because the 4perchannel DAC connection is reserved for the stereo jack sets and NOT for the multichannel output. In fact, Oppo recommends for best multichannel analog that the user connect the FrontL and FrontR amps to stereo L/R output jacks (RCA or XLR) and the remaining amps to the appropriate jacks on the 7.1 set..

ok - but on the bdp-93 there is no dedicated stereo output. So your point is only valid for the BDP-95 and not for comparing the 93 vs the 95..

[Kal Rubinson]

ok - but on the bdp-93 there is no dedicated stereo output. So your point is only valid for the BDP-95 and not for comparing the 93 vs the 95..

??? Sure. :roll:

[audioqueso]

...with a budget of 500$ for an external DAC is going to be a challenge!

That's why I'm asking... cause I don't know. :B

What about cables to connect between the transport and DAC

Already taken care of.

it can read my audio files on an networked server no problem.

This was an interesting part. I know the 93/95 support DLNA. If it can support DLNA's "push to" feature under Windows 7, then I could set up my HTPC to use the Oppo's DACs. This would be quite a nice solution. But I need to double check on this with Oppo.

[baniels]

I'll see if I can try this out for you...

If it can support DLNA's "push to" feature under Windows 7, then I could set up my HTPC to use the Oppo's DACs. This would be quite a nice solution. But I need to double check on this with Oppo.

[baniels]

I can't seem to find the Oppo in my list of devices that Win7 sees. I will have to experiment more. You may be able to find your answer on the AVS forum.

I have been able to "push" to the Oppo from Foobar2K, fwiw.

[audioqueso]

I can't seem to find the Oppo in my list of devices that Win7 sees. I will have to experiment more. You may be able to find your answer on the AVS forum.

I have been able to "push" to the Oppo from Foobar2K, fwiw.

Wow. I greatly appreciate you doing this.
So you were able to control Foobar from your pc, and it actually started sending the audio to the Oppo... and the Oppo accepted it and worked?
If that worked for you, then there is probably a way to set up DLNA's "push to" feature. I hope so. That would be great.

[bigburner]

??? Sure. :roll:

I think aarsoe is right Kal. Here is the back view of the 93 http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-b...93-back-hr.jpg. No dedicated stereo audio out.

In contrast here is the 95: http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-b...95-back-hr.jpg, and here is the 83 http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-b...83_back_hr.jpg, both of which have dedicated stereo audio out.

Nigel.

[bigburner]

Or is there a $500 range DAC that combined with a BDP-93/HTPC would be just as good?
...well, enough so that my LP doesn't put it to shame anymore.

Hi audioqueso,

I have recently been researching modestly-priced external DACs for my secondary system. The one that came to the top of my list was the Cambridge Audio DacMagic http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=320.

It has been well reviewed by many magazines including the highly regarded Stereophile http://www.stereophile.com/digitalpr..._da_converter/.

In New Zealand, where hi-fi is generally more expensive than in the US, the DacMagic sells for just over US$500, so I suspect it will fit into your budget nicely.

Please note that I haven't listened to it yet.

Nigel.

[Kal Rubinson]

I think aarsoe is right Kal. Here is the back view of the 93 http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-b...93-back-hr.jpg. No dedicated stereo audio out.

In contrast here is the 95: http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-b...95-back-hr.jpg, and here is the 83 http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-b...83_back_hr.jpg, both of which have dedicated stereo audio out.

Nigel.

C'mon. I know that.

My posts were about the 95 and that the dedicated DAC for the XLR was shared by the dedicated stereo RCA outputs. That, imho, provides an advantage for the 95 even if one does not use the XLRs. Of course, the 93 lacks dedicated stereo RCA outputs.

What I rolled my eyes about was that I was never discussing the 93 with regard to the DAC configuration and thought his comment to me tangential.

[baniels]

That's right. If i recall, when foobar was setup properly, the OPPO listed two foobar servers to choose from. One was a standard browse and play, the other a capture/stream or something. The latter simply playing whatever I played on the pc.

Wow. I greatly appreciate you doing this.
So you were able to control Foobar from your pc, and it actually started sending the audio to the Oppo... and the Oppo accepted it and worked?
If that worked for you, then there is probably a way to set up DLNA's "push to" feature. I hope so. That would be great.

[aarsoe]

Wow

Must be a mighty high horse...

[audioqueso]

Nigel, thanks for the suggestion. I am researching that as well.

That's right. If i recall, when foobar was setup properly, the OPPO listed two foobar servers to choose from. One was a standard browse and play, the other a capture/stream or something. The latter simply playing whatever I played on the pc.

Appreciate the help! Thanks!

Must be a mighty high horse...

Come on, you don't need to take it there.
That's why I wrote: I think the point he (Kal) was making is that both the balanced and unbalanced path are using the same DACs.
i.e., the BDP-95 is not a waste of money for someone using the RCA outputs.
Either way, I am grateful for your help and input on this thread.

[jbreezy5]

As long as you have coaxial or toslink on your HTPC, then the DacMagic + BDP-93 combo is a good choice.

If you're going to run the DacMagic from USB, then I'd avoid it; it had poor jitter characteristics from USB per the review in Stereophile (except if run from a laptop's battery power; per the manufacturer comments).

[bigburner]

C'mon. I know that.

My posts were about the 95 and that the dedicated DAC for the XLR was shared by the dedicated stereo RCA outputs. That, imho, provides an advantage for the 95 even if one does not use the XLRs. Of course, the 93 lacks dedicated stereo RCA outputs.

What I rolled my eyes about was that I was never discussing the 93 with regard to the DAC configuration and thought his comment to me tangential.

Cryptic is as confusing as tangential is discombobulating.

Nigel.

[Kal Rubinson]

Cryptic is as confusing as tangential is discombobulating.

Nigel.

I don't consider my posts cryptic. Terse, perhaps.

[Bob]

It appears from reading these posts that you are concerned about improving CD sound. Am I correct?

If that is true, move out of the past and forget about CD players and CD DACs altogether. You can get much better sound for less money building around a computer system. And, make sure either a IPOD or IPAD is part of the system for portability.

[baniels]

^ Whether it's from a cd, a computer, or a server, the question of the DAC comes into play. I play all my music streamed in FLAC from my server to my Oppo 93. If I'm using the analog outs, the music is hitting the same DAC's used if I played from a CD. And if I had a BDP 95, it would be hitting the "better" DAC's before going to my amp.

With a computer-based system still have a DAC in the equation.

[madmac]

There's something sterile about music from a computer. I just can't get around that feeling!. I've always felt that a stand alone, dedicated, higher end CD player will do a better job at overall sound quality.

[Kal Rubinson]

There's something sterile about music from a computer. I just can't get around that feeling!. I've always felt that a stand alone, dedicated, higher end CD player will do a better job at overall sound quality.

Hmm. That's the same thing that vinyl-philes say about CDs. :tired:

[audioqueso]

It appears from reading these posts that you are concerned about improving CD sound. Am I correct?

No, not just CD's. Digital music. i.e., my CD's and/or my flac files from my HTPC.

You can get much better sound for less money building around a computer system.

I already have a HTPC built and running.

^ Whether it's from a cd, a computer, or a server, the question of the DAC comes into play. I play all my music streamed in FLAC from my server to my Oppo 93. If I'm using the analog outs, the music is hitting the same DAC's used if I played from a CD. And if I had a BDP 95, it would be hitting the "better" DAC's before going to my amp.

With a computer-based system still have a DAC in the equation.

I thought about that. I know that with the BDP-95, I can navigate through my HTPC's music files and play it via the BDP-95, taking advantage of the BDP-95's DAC... and that would be great, but then I wouldn't be able to take advantage of my HTPC's front-end. So that's something I would really have to think about.

Hmm. That's the same thing that vinyl-philes say about CDs. :tired:

ha ha.. that's funny, but true. (and actually how this thread got started)

[audioqueso]

At this point, I think I'm leaning more towards the Oppo BDP-95 or Nuforce BDP-93NE. For times when I want to listen to music on my HTPC, I can use the Oppo to navigate to that music album.

But then I started thinking... a used Benchmark DAC1 or PS Audio Link III from audiogon can both be had under $1k. Would that compete against the Oppo BDP-95? And if it's close enough in performance, is it enough to satisfy both a BDP-93 AND my HTPC? So perhaps I will save an extra $2k extra to play with. Oppo, Nuforce, Benchmark, PS Audio, and Cambridge Audio all have 30 money back guarantee. Perhaps I could purchase them all, and audition it at home with my gear to see which one really suits me.

[Johnloudb]

Perhaps I could purchase them all, and audition it at home with my gear to see which one really suits me.

Yeah. :T

Don't forget to write a review on the message board.

Would that compete against the Oppo BDP-95?

I've had the PSAudio DACIII and it was okay, but we sold it later. The Benchmark DAC1 is very good. We really like the Nuforce player I mentioned earlier - I think the very good DAC chip has a lot to do with that, but I don't know. Of course, audio systems and personal preferences are all different.

[audioqueso]

Yeah. :T
Don't forget to write a review on the message board.

It would be more fun if I had any audio enthusiastic friends in the local area. Then we could share experiences and feedback. Anyone wanna take a trip to Japan? :B

I've had the PSAudio DACIII and it was okay, but we sold it later. The Benchmark DAC1 is very good. We really like the Nuforce player I mentioned earlier

You ended up with the Nuforce BDP-83SE, right? I think I remember you mentioning that you liked the Nuforce more than the Benchmark DAC1.
Did you post your feedback about the PS Audio DAC III? Perhaps I'll look that up too.


Just to reiterate, it's not so much that I'm looking for an upgrade to my digital music. It's that after putting together a vinyl setup, my digital music (CD & flac files) sounds so small in comparison, that it makes me feel like I really didn't know how weak my source was until now. So I'd like to give my digital music a boast in performance big enough so that it doesn't sound so pathetic compared to the vinyl setup.

[Johnloudb]

You ended up with the Nuforce BDP-83SE, right? I think I remember you mentioning that you liked the Nuforce more than the Benchmark DAC1.

Yeah, I did. The Nuforce is the best sounding player or DAC we've owned.

Did you post your feedback about the PS Audio DAC III? Perhaps I'll look that up too.

I'm not sure what you mean. I have posted my impressions of the DAC III in various threads related to it.

My opinion is that is was working fine. After a good break in, my dad felt it was a bit dark sounding and just didn't convey the emotion of music for him. I thought it was a good sounding DAC, but just wasn't as good in detail and truth of timber as the Benchmark DAC1 to my ears.

That was before we bought the Nuforce player.

[audioqueso]

Yeah, I did. The Nuforce is the best sounding player or DAC we've owned.

That definitely makes me think that I should give the Nuforce BPD-93NE a try against the BDP-95.