Preamp Decision Time

[markjrho]

Hello all, I am in the process of completing a two channel system, mostly from buying used and I would like some input on a preamp. First the system, I have Nola Viper IIa floorstanding speakers, Emotiva UPA-1 monoblocks (200 watts each) and a Musical Fidelity A5 cd player. I eventually will add a turntable, but not in the immediate future.

Here are my choices for the preamps based on much reading:

Musical Fidelity A5 (matches my cd player)

Musical Fidelity a308 (Great reviews)

Audible Illusions M3 (older but a great classic)

Rogue 99, Perseus or Metis (I've heard all three and could live with any of them, especially since they all have built in phono stage)

I'm able to obtain any of the above on used market between $600 and $1,200, with the Metis being the cheapest.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[stuofsci02]

It's not on your list, but considering you have Emotiva Power Amps have you considered the USP-1? If you need balanced the XSP-1 should be out in the next month or so.. Both have an excellent phono stage for your turn table..

I hummed and hawwed over the USP-1 for months before I got it. I couldn't be more pleased.. I will however upgrade to the XSP-1 when it comes out.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Johnloudb]

I've auditioned the Audible Allusions at home and it's a nice sounding preamp and on the warm side, but not colored sounding, just very pleasant.

I'd think the tube sound might be a good complement to the Emotiva's solid stateness. I've never heard the Emotiva though, and just read a couple reviews on it. Emotiva is probably one of the best values out there though.

Are the music fidelity preamps, tube? They may work well as well.

If you don't go tube, have tone controls is very helpful. They're helpful with tubes too, but more so with solid state IMO.

Just my thoughts though.

John

[markjrho]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I haven't really considered the USP-1 because I thought I would want a tube pre to get the tube-ss combo. And although the Musical Fidelity pieces are both solid state, I know that they would mesh well with my cd player, and both have some tube qualities to their sound.

[DelRay]

I've had the A5 Pre in my system for about 3 years now. Very well built with plenty of inputs "including HT bypass" which is a must for me. And unless you have a MC cartridge with an extremely low output, the phono section is really good. I'm pairing mine up with a Bryston 4B-ST power amp.

[markjrho]

Delray, thanks for the input. Have you experienced the hum that some a5 owners have spoken of?

[DelRay]

I've haven't noticed a hum. I didn't even know that it was an issue with A5 owners.

[markjrho]

I've haven't noticed a hum. I didn't even know that it was an issue with A5 owners.

Thats good to know. In the MF thread there is dialogue about a hum coming from the a5 pre when connected to the a5 power.

[2gumby2]

I have five 2-channel systems at my residence now and use Bel Canto, McCormack Audio, and Wyred4Sound preamps. I like them all and could recommend any of them with equal enthusiasm.

[bigburner]

If you don't go tube, have tone controls is very helpful.

I agree with you 100% John but preamps with tone controls are as rare as hens teeth. Preamp manufacturers must think we all listen to perfect recordings in acoustically treated rooms. How many preamps with tone controls can you recommend?

Nigel.

[Johnloudb]

Hey Nigel, yes they are rare. However I've noticed both Nad and Rotel preamps usually have tone controls on their preamps. Here's one I just looked up on Audio Advisor.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NAC165BEE

They also posted this little blurb about their controls:

High-Fidelity Tone Controls

While tone control circuits in general tend to hurt performance by adding noise and distortion, the C165BEE is a textbook example of how to correctly implement high fidelity tone controls. Affecting only the frequency extremes, they leave the critical midrange untouched. Their moderate action is perfect for touching up the tonal balance of all the less than perfect recordings in your collection. A Tone Defeat switch quickly selects flat response and bypasses all the tone control circuitry.

Too bad most other high end audio companies don't do the same.

[Hdale85]

The XSP-1 would be my choice personally, it's looking to be a very nice piece for a very low price as far as preamp's go.

[markjrho]

I have seen the Emotiva XSP-1 and its intriguing. Still, I am quite interested in hearing what a trube preamp will bring to my set up. Thanks for all responses and suggestions. Update, I went to my local dealer and listened to the Conrad Johnson ET-3 and Rogue Metis preamps coupled to an Anthem PVA-7 and a pair of Martin Logans. Very impressive sound and in my opinion, the Metis did not give up a lot to the CJ. More choices to consider!

[dtb300]

IMO, I would buy the CJ before the Rogue anyday.

There are many great PreAmps in the used market which would easily fit the same budget of the ET-3. Not sure how old you would consider a purchase for. The PV-10 is a great used CJ pre and should run under $1k used - but it is many models back. There are other more recent CJ models always for sale on the 'Gon

Others you may want to consider - ARC, BAT, MAC, etc. - Each has their own type of sound and that is where you come in to decide what you like best.

If you like the CJ sound, then stick with CJ.

[Bob]

Since you are considering adding a turntable, I highly reccomend the Hovland preamp with the MC phono stage. When it first came out both Stereophile and Absolute Sound rated it as one of the best preamps ever.

I had one and then sold it for seperates. Bought a Audio Research Ref 5 and a Manley Steelhead phono amp. The two together were something like 14 0r 15 thousand dollars. While they were certainly fine products, I never felt that I had made a significant improvement to my system. Eventually, I sold them both and rebought a used Hovland 100 MC for around $3000. Have never considered changing since.

They aren't made anymore and probably dificult to find. Well worth the search. Don't get the 200 with the remote control, get the 100. Change the tubes for matched super tubes from http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/index.html. You will never have any reason to look further.

[markjrho]

DTB: I do like the CJ sound and I have seen a ton of used pres on audiogon, but age does factor in a little, as I am one who tends to hold on to gear for a while before I upgrade.

Bob: I have a friend who has the Hovland and I believe its the 100. and he loves it. I don't see them often on the used market, but I believe that they go for more than what I'm looking to spend, which is a limit of $2,000. But I'm in no rush and I will take my time to listen to pres and see what becomes available on the used market.

If there are any other tube pres that I should consider, by all means share your thoughts. Thanks.

[dtb300]

DTB: I do like the CJ sound and I have seen a ton of used pres on audiogon, but age does factor in a little, as I am one who tends to hold on to gear for a while before I upgrade.

If you are concerned about a used unit, call the seller and discuss it with them on the phone. There are also many dealers selling used units if buying from a dealer makes you more comfortable.

You can also have the unit sent into CJ for a checkup, no matter what the age of the unit. I have a friend who bought used CJ stuff - 2500, LP70, PR17 and always talked with CJ about each unit about history, etc.

With CJ there to back you up, there should be no qualms about buying used from a reputable seller.

[exojam]

If you do not mind building it, what about the Pass B1?

James

[markjrho]

If you do not mind building it, what about the Pass B1?

James

Building one? I never really considered a kit.

[exojam]

Here is some information about the B1. There are also different flavors of this over at diyaudio in the Pass Labs section.

Mine is nothing special to look at but it sounds fantasic.

Pass DIY (in projects, look for B1 Buffer Pre Amp which has Nelson Pass’ write up on the pre amp):

http://www.passdiy.com/projects.htm

Pass DIY Store (where to buy the boards and jfets):

http://www.passdiy.com/store.htm

AudioCircle (user “wushuliu” did a great job on the first page with links to all the needed items for this build):

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78312.0

diyAudio (very long thread here on B1):

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/124889-b1-buffer-preamp.html

Getting started:


Test fit (also I have the wrong type of pot in there):


Showing RCA’s (and a really bad centering job on one which has been fixed):


New pot installed and checking wiring:


Finished:


James

[markjrho]

Thanks for the pics, looks like a nice job.

[markjrho]

Thanks to all who gave suggestions, but after much searching and losing out on sales and auctions, I landed a really sweet deal on a McIntosh c15 preamp. I expect to achieve the warmth and smoothness that I was looking for with the tube pre, but obviously without the "tubey" sound. If it turns out not to be my cup of tea, I know I can get back what I paid for it quite easily, and then just go ahead and get the tube pre. I will post my thoughts once everything gets set up.