ISO: Quality 2 Ch. Pre-Amp w/Phono

[Spookyslow]

Gents,

I haven't spent much time around these parts, but I thought I'd look to the collective wisdom of the 'Audio Hideout'. I'm about to make my first venture into dedicated 2 channel audio and I'm in a search for a quality solid state preamp with a phono input.

My 2 ch. experience is pretty limited. I've only been able to track down the Rotel 1070 and 1082, Sony ES, and the Linn to listen to in person. So any incite/recommendations are welcome. Unfortunately, price is a consideration, so as much as I liked the Linn...it's just not a reality for me.

Thanks much in advance.

[wkhanna]

OK! Can you give us an upper limit on your budget? I may have a few suggestions for you.

Are you only interested in SS or is hybrid and option you might consider?

[Glen B]

Have you considered an outboard phono stage as an alternative to a preamp with phono ? There's a dearth of phono preamps available at all price levels. Look at the offerings from dealers like Music Direct and The Needle Doctor.
Music Direct: http://www.musicdirect.com/category/24
Needle Doctor: http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-S...ERPRICE&range=

[twitch54]

Need more info.......what is your amp, speakers, TT/cartridge combo, MM or MC, low or high output, etc , etc , etc.

Now....another question ???? why not consider a tube pre-amp ????

budget constraints ?? would you consider used ?

[Spookyslow]

Phew! Let me see if I can answer your questions the best I can...

As for a external phono stage; I'm not sure I can get the 'ok' from the boss about an external piece of equipment dangling about. Besides, I've got one little one and another on the way....I would hate to have something that can be yanked.

As odd as it sounds, the phono stage is a requirement to 'futureproof' myself. In a short time, I'll be getting my Dad's hand me down albums (original Cream, Hendrix, Beatles, Miles, Coltrain, Monk Charlie Parker, etc). Far too good a stash to not make the best of it! To that point, any advice on turntables and cartridges would be helpful.

My current set up is relatively temporary. Current speakers in my HT are B&W DM604's. They'll be borrowed from the HT setup for 2 ch with the goal upgrading and returning them the HT setup. .

They'll be driven by a Rotel RB 1080 2x200. I'd like to keep this in place for as long as possible. It's relatively powerful and with the right pre, could fit the bill nicely.

I'm always open to buying used for the right piece/deal/condition.

Thanks much.

[Nick M]

I use a Rotel RC-1070 and it seems to do the job quite nicely with my RCD-1072 CD-Player and RB-1080 200Wx2 Amp.

I also like the integrated amp that Krell puts out for around $2k.

From there it takes $5k or so for me to notice any small differences that are positive to my ears, and thats maybe <5% better. This of course is using speakers that I enjoy such as Thiels and Paradigm Signature Series.

But <$500 for a Rotel RC-1070 is tough to beat I think. It's a solid well-built unit that does it's task quite well - IMHO that is.

[Spookyslow]

I use a Rotel RC-1070 and it seems to do the job quite nicely with my RCD-1072 CD-Player and RB-1080 200Wx2 Amp.

I also like the integrated amp that Krell puts out for around $2k.

From there it takes $5k or so for me to notice any small differences that are positive to my ears, and thats maybe <5% better. This of course is using speakers that I enjoy such as Thiels and Paradigm Signature Series.

But <$500 for a Rotel RC-1070 is tough to beat I think. It's a solid well-built unit that does it's task quite well - IMHO that is.

That's part of my problem, I can tell a difference....and it drives me nuts. Yeah, the difference is noticeable but at what cost?

Today I A/B'd a Rotel 1082 and Linn Majic on identical systems (Linn Amp, Rega speakers) and the Linn was just head and shoulders better than the 1082.....but then again it was 3x the price. Ugh.

[Bob]

My advice would be to keep on the lookout for a used Hovland 100 preamp
with a built in MC phono stage. Such as this one:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1201992801

When it first came out both Stereophile and the Absolute Sound were asking, "Could this be the best preamp ever made?". Then as time has gone by they have moved on to whatever is new. The Hovland 100 MC is rock solid and one of those rare pieces of equipment that will serve you for a lifetime. I'm betting that in the future it will be a sought after classic and could even go up in value.

To this day I think it is the best preamp I have ever owned or heard. At the time I had mine, I brought home several external phono stages to audition against it. The Tom Evans Groove, The Rhea, The Sutherland, EAR.
It wasn't until the ARC 3/Manly Steelhead combo made their way into my system that I found anything that could be considered a upgrade to it.

I will soon be putting together a second system and that will be the first piece of equipment I will snap up.

[Glen B]

I'm not sure I can get the 'ok' from the boss about an external piece of equipment dangling about. Besides, I've got one little one and another on the way....I would hate to have something that can be yanked.

As odd as it sounds, the phono stage is a requirement to 'futureproof' myself. In a short time, I'll be getting my Dad's hand me down albums (original Cream, Hendrix, Beatles, Miles, Coltrain, Monk Charlie Parker, etc). Far too good a stash to not make the best of it! To that point, any advice on turntables and cartridges would be helpful.

An external phono stage does not have to dangle. Some larger units are not much different from any other component. At worst case, a small unit can be placed out of sight behind a rack. An external stage is also ideal for "futureproofing." If you find something you really like, should you ever decide to upgrade your preamps you will be able to keep your phono stage for use with the new preamp. After all, isn't that one of the key points of having separates ? BTW, you say you have one kid and another on the way. I can tell you from experience that kids and vinyl don't mix. Be sure to place that turntable well out of reach, at least during the "touching phase" that all kids seem to go through.

[Spookyslow]

My advice would be to keep on the lookout for a used Hovland 100 preamp
with a built in MC phono stage. Such as this one:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1201992801

When it first came out both Stereophile and the Absolute Sound were asking, "Could this be the best preamp ever made?". Then as time has gone by they have moved on to whatever is new. The Hovland 100 MC is rock solid and one of those rare pieces of equipment that will serve you for a lifetime. I'm betting that in the future it will be a sought after classic and could even go up in value.

To this day I think it is the best preamp I have ever owned or heard. At the time I had mine, I brought home several external phono stages to audition against it. The Tom Evans Groove, The Rhea, The Sutherland, EAR.
It wasn't until the ARC 3/Manly Steelhead combo made their way into my system that I found anything that could be considered a upgrade to it.

I will soon be putting together a second system and that will be the first piece of equipment I will snap up.

That looks like an amazing pre...talk about isolating electronics! I'm not sure it would pass the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) for either price or appearance. But given it's only about 20min away in DC; do you think he'd let me audition it ?

How do you find quality gear like this to listen to? I'm sure I could tell a difference between the Hovland/Levinson/Mac, etc compared to Rotel, BK, etc. But what's the trick for finding something that suits your ears as well as your wallet?

[Spookyslow]

An external phono stage does not have to dangle. Some larger units are not much different from any other component. At worst case, a small unit can be placed out of sight behind a rack. An external stage is also ideal for "futureproofing." If you find something you really like, should you ever decide to upgrade your preamps you will be able to keep your phono stage for use with the new preamp. After all, isn't that one of the key points of having separates ? BTW, you say you have one kid and another on the way. I can tell you from experience that kids and vinyl don't mix. Be sure to place that turntable well out of reach, at least during the "touching phase" that all kids seem to go through.

Excellent info and terrific advice about the Wee Ones...

In some ways I was hoping to find a suitable pre with a phono stage to help reduce some of the confusion I'm already feeling with trying to find a pre.

Heck, finding quality info/opportunities around 2 ch is tough enough, let alone getting good intel on a external phono stage. Is judging a phono stage the same as all else in audio (trust your ears)? Or is there something more to consider when looking an external phono?

[Glen B]

Heck, finding quality info/opportunities around 2 ch is tough enough, let alone getting good intel on a external phono stage. Is judging a phono stage the same as all else in audio (trust your ears)? Or is there something more to consider when looking an external phono?

Yes, trust your ears. Better products provide selectable capacitive and resistive loading to match your choice of cartridge. There are a number of vinyl forums where you can find information that will help you make up a short list of products to evaluate.

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=34

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/bbs.html

http://forums.audioreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37

[dtb300]

That's part of my problem, I can tell a difference....and it drives me nuts. Yeah, the difference is noticeable but at what cost?

Only you can make that decision on final cost and "if" it is worth it.

Today I A/B'd a Rotel 1082 and Linn Majic on identical systems (Linn Amp, Rega speakers) and the Linn was just head and shoulders better than the 1082.....but then again it was 3x the price. Ugh.

Sometimes you do get what you pay for in this hobby, but sometimes not.

My recommendations based on what I like for sound would be Modwright, ARC, & CJ for starters. Again depends on your budget and your sound preferences. Significant cost savings can be had with used equipment too.

[miner]

I have read reviews that stated the phono stage in the Rotel RC-1070 was worth the price of the pre alone - a very good phono for the $$. Keep in mind it is for MM cartridges only. Used RC-1070 can be had for $300. I have one in my BR system with a RB-1070 amp. Very nice with my Rega P3 TT and Shure cartridge.

[Spookyslow]

Yes, trust your ears. Better products provide selectable capacitive and resistive loading to match your choice of cartridge. There are a number of vinyl forums where you can find information that will help you make up a short list of products to evaluate.

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=34

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/bbs.html

http://forums.audioreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37

I've just scanned these links but WOW! I've got a lot of reading to do!

I do have a Technics 1200 direct driver TT in the basement. it did alright at parties in college, but I'm not sure how well suited it is for 2 ch listening. Any incite?