What speakers offer the clarity and detail => Senn HD580 cans?

[whoaru99]

Just out of curiosity, what speakers would offer equal or greater clarity and detail than I am getting from my Sennheiser HD580 headphones?

Thanks,

[James63]

Well I am big into headphones and I have Sennheiser 650s. Senns are good headphones but there are many many speakers that will put them to shame. I own B&W 703s (Toshiba HD-DVD player as my CD source) and there is no comparison. The speakers make the headphones sound unatural and soft in the highs.

The mids are very comparable between the 650s and 703 speakers. But I think the transparency and detail of the mids are better on the 703s.

On bass well...speakers always win.

703s are a good bit brighter than Sennheisers "house sound" but they are no where near as birght as Grado headphones (I have MS2).

If you are looking for a speaker that sounds like the your 580s I would look into Tannoy DC3. They have a very detailed highs that are a little soft (not as laid back as the 580) and solid punchy bass. I liked this speaker very well and almost bought a pair ($2700).

http://www.tannoy.com/EyrisDC3

What is your price range?

PS. I run my Senn 650s out of a "Gilmore lite headphone amp". I use my mac mini and Onix cd player as my source.

[whoaru99]

The price range to get that level of clarity and detail is really what I'm trying to figure out.

For instance, if it's going to cost me $3K-$5K or more, then it's out of the question right now.

I have Studio 100s and they are good speakers, but they just don't bring out some of the details like the HD580s. A good example off the top of my head is the U2 song Vertigo. Early into the song, "Turn it up loud, Captain" is one of the lyrics. To me, this is sort of recessed/muddled/hard to make out in amongst the guitar riff going on through the Studio 100s, but I can hear the words way more clearly in the HD580s.

[James63]

It seems to me that you are looking for a very clear midrange. This is the strength of the 650s and 580s. The truth of it is only very good speakers will get you to that level.

I owned my 650s before I had good speakers. When I went speakers shopping the mids/vocals were my main interest. I passed on many brands because they did not stack up to my 650s.

Your studios are pretty good speakers. I heard them a few weeks ago running off $6000 of Arcam equipment. They had lots of body and seemed like a fun speaker. But the first thing I said to the sales men was the vocals just don't seperate and image like my B&Ws. But I did like the bass better on the 100s (even though it was a little bloated.)

If you do not like your studio 100s you are going to have to get into high dollar speakers to be happy in my oppinon.

There are many good brands two of which that have very clean transparent vocals IMO are B&Ws and Focals. Both speakers will put you in the $3000 to $7000 dollar range though.

Some one here might be able to recomend some thing cheaper that will get the job done.

Good luck hunting and let you ears choose not the forums.

[saiko]

2 whoaru99: please, tell what amp you use with your studio 100? May be reason in amp...

[whoaru99]

It's not that I don't like the 100s - just that the more stuff a guy is exposed to, the more one gains a better understanding of particular strengths and weaknesses.

The really sucky part is that I more or less live out in the sticks. So, it ends up being (round trip) 350-400 miles each time I want to go investigate different electronics or speakers.

[whoaru99]

2 whoaru99: please, tell what amp you use with your studio 100? May be reason in amp...

Mostly Levinson No. 23, sometimes Yamaha M-80, and I have even tried them with the Panasonic XR55 digital receiver.

[James63]

What is you CD player? Do you have good calbe going from the CD player to amp/reciever? What is you speaker wire.

[whoaru99]

I don't have a "good" CD player at present. My old Denon DCD-1560 is on the fritz and I haven't got around to giving it a tune-up.

So, right now, the main source in both comparisons is my computer onboard sound set at 16-bit/44.1 output with kernel streaming, playing WAVs ripped with EAC, via coaxial digital connection to Anthem AVM 20.

I've recently "upgraded" the coaxial cable from a super cheap RS video cable to some tri-shield RG-6 coax and can't say that I've noticed any difference. The speaker cables currently in use are 12-ga zip cord, but I have another pair of some Litz-type cables I'm not using at present because they are too short for the current arrangement.

[dknightd]

Part of it maybe room treatment. Do you have the first reflection points taken care of? Walls, floor, and ceiling?

Even then I think headphones make details stand out more. I have Senn 650 and AKG 701 for headphones, and B&W 703 for speakers.

The studio 100 was my second choice for speakers. I decided the extra cost for the 703 was worth it. They do have a more natural sounding midrange to my ears (when I got home I told the wife I chose the speakers that had the better mids and highs, but not quite as powerful bass - she seemed happy with this, but didn't know they were also more expensive - never mind both were within my budget. But I digress).

I suspect that if I added more absorbers to my room the speakers would approach the details of the headphones, but at the cost of some ambiance.

To be honest I don't think either speaker can match the detail that my headphones deliver. But I'd rather listen to speakers because the whole is better than the sum of the parts.

I just tried your "Turn it up loud, Captain" test. I could easily make it out on my speakers, but, it was more obvious on the headphones. To be honest I don't think it was supposed to be obvious.

[James63]

Well I find that many people think headphone have more details but I am not sure this is ture for a few reasons.

1: even the oppen senns provide isolation from out side noise. It will add to the details you can hear.

2: Many people my self included listen to headphones louder than speakers. This adds to the details you can here. I listen to my senns at 80/85 db but find I can get the same sound level with only 70/75 db out of my speakers.

Try setting your speakers and headphones to the same volume and see if they are more comparible.

[gianni]

Part of it maybe room treatment. Do you have the first reflection points taken care of? Walls, floor, and ceiling?

Even then I think headphones make details stand out more. I have Senn 650 and AKG 701 for headphones, and B&W 703 for speakers.

To be honest I don't think either speaker can match the detail that my headphones deliver. But I'd rather listen to speakers because the whole is better than the sum of the parts.

From my experience, this pretty well sums it up. I don't think you can really expect spakers to sound like headphones largely due to room interaction and the way we hear. The experinces are very different. While cans do have an advantage in conveying detail and perhaps timber of an instrument, speakers have their own - soundstaging is more realistic instead of in your head, bass, presence and visceral impact, etc.

[whoaru99]

Well, perhaps my description of the lyric being recessed/muddled/hard to make out is a little strong in hindsight, but certainly it does not come through as clear and obvious as with the cans.

As far as room treatments go, basically I have nothing commercial or planned out. The room is carpeted with moderate padding and a medium nap. There is a full sized sofa/couch covered in a coarse weave fabric. There are some moderately heavy drapes on one side wall and a fairly large, thinly-stuffed decorative wall hanging on the other side wall.

So, while not acoustically treated, it's not overly live. There is a very faint hint of echo, I suppose from the ceiling and rear wall, if I clap my hands.