redbook cds are horrible

[tboooe]

I have about 2000 redbook cds and exactly one (Sting's "Soul Cages") exhibits any kind of dynamic soundstaging. Almost every song on the CD has parts that creates a soundstage 5-7 ft wider than where my speakers are. Amazing. This lack of well recorded music is a real shame because I know my system is capable of so much more. Am I wrong in my assertion that redbook cds are poorly recorded? Audiophile cd's are great but are mostly music genre's that I dont necessarily enjoy. I guess mainstream music is meant for mainstream audio equipment and listening preferences as well.

[aud19]

I think you pretty much summed it up there It's scary and sad how much really poorly recorded mainstream music there is out there

[Kevin D]

That's not a better recording, its just recorded with QSound. Popular in Capcom video games of the 90's, it also found it's way into a lot of CD's, but never quite caught on.

It's a 3D sound algorithm that 'tricks' your brain into thinking things are not coming from the speakers.

Here's a link:

http://www.qsound.com/

There used to be a listing of all CD's that were encoded with Qsound, but I can't find it. I know Madonna's Immaculate Collection has it.

Kevin D.

[MarkR]

It's the format not the recording, try some vinyl.

[aud19]

I have nothing against vinyl, infact I just got a tonne of old jazz albums from my grandparents which is pretty cool. But there are plenty of CD's out there with great sound quality, it's not the format :P

[tboooe]

kevind: thanks for the link. That is very interesting. I wonder why qsound never caught on? does that mean unless qsound technology is used, you will not get that wide soundstaging affect? is that (soundstaging) not possible with normal recording methods?

[kurtholz]

some cd's are just down and out horrible, but soundstage can be manipulated with the Krell processor, i think Rotel had a few settings that would do that to

i am finding as i get more competent with all the filters on my Krell, i can make almost any CD sound really good

just got my arcam dv29 today, i am foaming at the mouth to hook it up and see if its an improvement over the Rotel1060 i'm using now

also, contemplating a Cary for CD playback, i think the tube output might be another trick to
tame the harsh CD sound

i'm sure some of the real experst here can help you get better CD sound, most likely something a lot of money wont fix

:-)

[Blazar]

lateral soundstaging is simply a function of recording tricks and nothing more... this is a "feature" in some cd's. many electronic music recordings use these tactics (ie trance music) a lot.

[GregLett]

humm, I need to go an dig out my Madonna cd.

[gianni]

tboooe,

I don't know what is holding your system back, but I'm always leary of making such absolute statements. I get very nice soundstaging from my system playing good ole Redbook. In some cases, it's almost holographic. Yes, Redbook has it's short comings but I'm often amazed how good it can sound with a decent player.

BTW, what is dynamic soundstaging? I'm familiar with dynamics and soundstaging but never heard this term.

[tboooe]

gianni, thanks for the reply.

i am trying to sort out my system..

dynamic soundstaging is a term i guess i made up. to me it means that the width and depth of the soundstage changes. this to me is a more realistic reproduction of music since the musicians all sit in different positions, which means the music should emanate from different areas. at the moment, in my system all the sound is flat in the center (no latyering or dimensionality) and does not extend beyond the speakers (other than the Sting cd).

can you please describe to me the sound you are getting? is the music coming from the center image layered? do you get soundstage wider than your speakers with redbook?

[PewterTA]

Almost Every Dave Matthews Band CD I have shows good dymanic soundstaging (from your definition). Everyone is placed where they should be and you can litterally tell the drums are sitting behind the other instruments and Dave's voice is more forward than anything else. Just have to close your eyes and listen.

I have a lot that demonstrate decent imaging, but the depth of the sound is lacking.

[GregLett]

I get a nice wide sound stage from my Sam MCclain cd. I can almost see the organ in the recording in my living room off to the right.

[Andrew M Ward]

gianni, thanks for the reply.

i am trying to sort out my system..

dynamic soundstaging is a term i guess i made up. to me it means that the width and depth of the soundstage changes. this to me is a more realistic reproduction of music since the musicians all sit in different positions, which means the music should emanate from different areas. at the moment, in my system all the sound is flat in the center (no latyering or dimensionality) and does not extend beyond the speakers (other than the Sting cd).

can you please describe to me the sound you are getting? is the music coming from the center image layered? do you get soundstage wider than your speakers with redbook?

A big part of imaging and sound stage is the room, not just the speakers. An identicle pair of speakers will sound completely different in different environments.

First reflections
Celiening material
Carpet or carpets
Drapes (location)
Furniture
on and on and on and on... it all matters

[aphexist]

I have about 2000 redbook cds and exactly one (Sting's "Soul Cages") exhibits any kind of dynamic soundstaging. Almost every song on the CD has parts that creates a soundstage 5-7 ft wider than where my speakers are. Amazing. This lack of well recorded music is a real shame because I know my system is capable of so much more. Am I wrong in my assertion that redbook cds are poorly recorded? Audiophile cd's are great but are mostly music genre's that I dont necessarily enjoy. I guess mainstream music is meant for mainstream audio equipment and listening preferences as well.

What you are experiencing has little to do with the physical format that you are playing back. Basically, don't blame the CD; whatever stereo format you are dealing with will have TWO channels that your brain will interpret as a three dimensional soundstage. As you say, most audiophile "demo discs" are bags of sonics tricks to show off a system.

[Karma]

HI All,
To give you an idea of where I'm coming from (and my age!) I have about 5000 vinyl records and about 350 CD's. I take both media seriously. My record playing system consisting of turntable, stand, tone arm, cartridge and cable cost a little over $12,000. That does not include the phono preamp and my record washer. My CD system consists of a $2000 deck and a $2000 tubed D to A converter. On this equipment both media sound great --- SOMETIMES.

It is easy to romantically look back at good 'ol vinyl and wish CD's were that good. Well, the percentage of junk recordings produced on vinyl was probably higher on vinyl than on CD's. There were more variables to produce a great sound from a record. These range from the studio equipment to the quality of the vinyl to the veracity of the playback system. On the average I think CD's provide a higher percentage of listenable material when played on the average system.

That said, when I compare my best records (generally, but not always, Direct To Disk recordings) to my best CD's vinyl wins if I discount tics, pops and convenience. Soundstaging, imaging, low level detail, and general sonic balance are absolutely outstanding inclding great, deep, full bass.

I was a very early adopter of CD's buying the first Sony player (CD-1 ?) about a month after it hit the market in 1984. There was almost no software available. It took about a month of sonic denial before I admitted that CD's sounded like crap. For about 10 years I bought no more CD's and finally sold the player.

Then I heard a new Sony that I thought sounded pretty good and I bought it. From then on I have heard a steady and definite improvement in CD's. They are at the point now where I truly enjoy the sound. It is so good that SACD and DVD Audio are having a very hard time gaining a foothold. They may fail.

Sparky

[Blazar]

HI All,
To give you an idea of where I'm coming from (and my age!) I have about 5000 vinyl records and about 350 CD's. I take both media seriously. My record playing system consisting of turntable, stand, tone arm, cartridge and cable cost a little over $12,000. That does not include the phono preamp and my record washer. My CD system consists of a $2000 deck and a $2000 tubed D to A converter. On this equipment both media sound great --- SOMETIMES.

It is easy to romantically look back at good 'ol vinyl and wish CD's were that good. Well, the percentage of junk recordings produced on vinyl was probably higher on vinyl than on CD's. There were more variables to produce a great sound from a record. These range from the studio equipment to the quality of the vinyl to the veracity of the playback system. On the average I think CD's provide a higher percentage of listenable material when played on the average system.

That said, when I compare my best records (generally, but not always, Direct To Disk recordings) to my best CD's vinyl wins if I discount tics, pops and convenience. Soundstaging, imaging, low level detail, and general sonic balance are absolutely outstanding inclding great, deep, full bass.

I was a very early adopter of CD's buying the first Sony player (CD-1 ?) about a month after it hit the market in 1984. There was almost no software available. It took about a month of sonic denial before I admitted that CD's sounded like crap. For about 10 years I bought no more CD's and finally sold the player.

Then I heard a new Sony that I thought sounded pretty good and I bought it. From then on I have heard a steady and definite improvement in CD's. They are at the point now where I truly enjoy the sound. It is so good that SACD and DVD Audio are having a very hard time gaining a foothold. They may fail.

Sparky

CD's that are recorded now are done so in much superior conditions to the original discs. The recording industry in general has gotten much better since "basic" equipment (at least digital equipment) is far superior to stuff 10 times as expensive 10-15 years ago.

Now, even the most basic of cd players you buy from sony, pioneer, etc. is superior to the "audiophile" cd players of 10 years ago. D/A conversion has become better and better and the baseline quality level for "entry level" has improved.

I agree that with a great recording and a great playback system... SACD won't seem very much superior in many cases.

[krek]

A CD that tricked me into buying my current receiver (pioneer vsx-2014i) is ''A funk Odyssey'' from Jamiroquai. This receiver gave a 3d impression of this cd when driving a pair of B&W 602's, while a Denon 3505 did not. The effects where so amazing, that I looked over my shoulder a couple of times. I don't know if this is a qsound cd, but reading this thread brings back this memory. I see you all have much better gear than I do, so maybe you should dig out this cd too

[krek]

Sorry, I mean the Denon 3805....

[bigburner]

To give you an idea of where I'm coming from (and my age!) I have about 5000 vinyl records

So assuming that you've been accumulating albums at an average of 50 albums per year you'd be about 100 now!!!

[Karma]

HI Big,

So assuming that you've been accumulating albums at an average of 50 albums per year you'd be about 100 now!!!

Fortunately, I accumulated records much faster than that!! :W Actually, many of my records were bought used as folks dumped their LP's in favor of CD's. I always examined the records first and had a iron-clad return agreement with the store in the event the record was invisibly damaged. It's amazing how many were excellent. I returned very few and I am very picky.

Sparky

[SteveCallas]

this to me is a more realistic reproduction of music since the musicians all sit in different positions, which means the music should emanate from different areas. at the moment, in my system all the sound is flat in the center (no latyering or dimensionality) and does not extend beyond the speakers (other than the Sting cd).

Sounds like your speakers are not positioned correctly in the room to me. While I find certain speakers to have wider soundstages or better imaging than others, and certain cds to have the same, the case you describe sounds like a setup problem.

[Armand]

Yo Steve. That's the biggest sub I've ever seen! Talk about a sonic vasectomy.