It's time for a Statement announcing my latest project..

[Sefferdog]

Brian, Chuck, KorbenDallas

Regretfully I am going to have to cancel our tentative plans for this coming Sat. I just got off of the phone with my wife, who is visiting her mother in Ohio, and was informed of a previous commitment I had forgotten about. I will stay in touch and we will get together as soon as our schedules allow. Sorry about this. :cry: :cry:

[Brian Bunge]

Wade,

Not a problem. We will make it some other time.

[Hdale85]

I wish someone up here in PGH had these. I guess maybe I can be the first one? We'll see. I'm starting to lean towards the full size statements though. Still debating.

[ahaik]

I wish someone up here in PGH had these. I guess maybe I can be the first one? We'll see. I'm starting to lean towards the full size statements though. Still debating.

Dougie if you ever make it to Long Island, NY you are very welcome to stop by.

[Hdale85]

Yeah sure! Lol I've never even been to New York....

New speakers are in the work here very soon. Unfortunately I don't have space to build the enclosures my self so a cabinet shop will be doing that part. Just have to decide which ones.

[KorbenDallas]

Regretfully I am going to have to cancel our tentative plans for this coming Sat. I just got off of the phone with my wife, who is visiting her mother in Ohio, and was informed of a previous commitment I had forgotten about. I will stay in touch and we will get together as soon as our schedules allow. Sorry about this. :cry: :cry:

No problem, if you get another opportunity let us know! :T

[digitalman]

Sefferdog , Saturday sounds great! i may very well bring one or two other friends who both want to build statements also. (if you can handle that many people, be honest and tell me, it's ok if you dont want that many people)

I can also bring over a good Rotel CD player, we can do both analog and digital comparisons from it.

I will bring a custom cd with various songs on it, and i have a few demo disks also, with 24bit stereo and 5.1 test tracks. do you have a dvd-audio player?

PM me your address and # so i can put it in my GPS and be able to call if theres a a problem finding you.

should be about a 2 hour trip. so maybe shoot for around 10am arrival. looking forward to it!

thanks

[coolerbin]

Preamp/processor recommandation for driving statement

I am wondering could someone give me some recommandation about the preamp/precessor, newbie here . I am going to buy Emotiva LPA-1 as power amplifier according to Jim recomandation. ;x( I am planing to use these speakers to play CD, DVD and TV as source.

What kind of pro/preamp you guys recommand? The banker (aka wife) agreed to let me withdraw $500 at most for this.

[PoorboyMike]

What kind of pro/preamp you guys recommand? The banker (aka wife) agreed to let me withdraw $500 at most for this.

Does the $500 include the amp, or is this just for the processor?

The Ultra Theater pair, which includes the LPA-1 amp and the LMC-1 processor, goes for $900. That is what I plan on getting.

[littlesaint]

Does the $500 include the amp, or is this just for the processor?

The Ultra Theater pair, which includes the LPA-1 amp and the LMC-1 processor, goes for $900. That is what I plan on getting.

I was looking at the LMC-1 when I bought my LPA-1, but it does not have HDMI. So no multichannel PCM which is pretty much essential for HD-DVD or Blu-ray HD audio. They will have new pre/pros early next year that will have all the new bells and whistles. The last time I checked they were offering 40% off the new pre/pro when it comes out if you purchase a current one.

[Jim Holtz]

I am wondering could someone give me some recommandation about the preamp/precessor, newbie here . I am going to buy Emotiva LPA-1 as power amplifier according to Jim recomandation. ;x( I am planing to use these speakers to play CD, DVD and TV as source.

What kind of pro/preamp you guys recommand? The banker (aka wife) agreed to let me withdraw $500 at most for this.

I certainly appreciate your vote of confidence but be aware, it's only my opinions based on my experiences so YMMV.. etc., etc., etc.

The Emotiva LMC-1 would be a no brainer if they had the usability issues corrected but they haven't yet. Here's a current list:

http://av123forum.com/showpost.php?p=397847&postcount=381

The only others that I've heard or owned are the Audio Refinement Pre2DSP which is an excellent sounding pre/pro if you could find one used. They are out of production now and bring more money than $500 usually. I've heard the Outlaw 950 and it's a decent sounding pre/pro. I'm told the 970 is very similar. Those would both be options used.

Enjoy your system!

Jim

[coolerbin]

This does not include the power AMP, $500 just for preamp/pro.

[JoshK]

I was looking at the LMC-1 when I bought my LPA-1, but it does not have HDMI. So no multichannel PCM which is pretty much essential for HD-DVD or Blu-ray HD audio. They will have new pre/pros early next year that will have all the new bells and whistles. The last time I checked they were offering 40% off the new pre/pro when it comes out if you purchase a current one.

Mine came with a HDMI switch box that is controlled by the LMC-1.

[littlesaint]

Mine came with a HDMI switch box that is controlled by the LMC-1.

It will switch between HDMI sources, but it cannot process HDMI digital audio.

[MarcE]

Jim:

I'm a bit late to the show, but I really like the open-back mid concept. I was wondering if you could comment on the part of the design process that mated the driver to the length (and shape) of the transmission line? Was the 16.5" depth of the speaker chosen with the specific driver in mind, or did was the line length choose to be "as long as possible", given reasonable constraints for the speaker depth.

Thanks!

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Marc,

Sorry, but I'll have to defer this question to Curt. He's the brains of the project and can give you the technical description you're seeking. The first post has a link to his website and which has his email address posted on it. Curt doesn't monitor the HT Guide as frequently as I do so a direct email will get a quicker response.

I can say with certainty that the transmission line mid design does work extremely well from a listener perspective.

Sorry, I can't be of more help.

Jim

[Jed]

Jim:

I'm a bit late to the show, but I really like the open-back mid concept. I was wondering if you could comment on the part of the design process that mated the driver to the length (and shape) of the transmission line? Was the 16.5" depth of the speaker chosen with the specific driver in mind, or did was the line length choose to be "as long as possible", given reasonable constraints for the speaker depth.

Thanks!

I'm not Curt, but for a midrange bandpass of 300-3.5K ish, a transmission line can be tuned above FS, and overstuffed- the main goal then being the absorption of the rear wave, and using the gradual slope of the rolloff to ease electrical solutions in the crossover.

[Sefferdog]

I was bored last night after work so I decided to build the cabinets for the mini Statements. Here is a pic for comparison purposes of the mini vs. its full tilt brother. 8O The mini will actually be a couple of inches taller when the spikes are added but this should give you a pretty good peek at the difference.

[Jim Holtz]

Wade,

That is a great comparison between the two speakers and illustrates the size difference. I'm am continually in awe at how quickly you can crank out a speaker cabinet. Great job!

Jim

[---k---]

You need to step back a foot or so with that picture so that we can also see the ceiling or something else to give scale to the speakers. In that photo, they just don't look that big. 8O

[Sefferdog]

Jim,

Thanks for the compliment but this is really just a box with a front baffle. I haven't cut in the mid enclosure, no bracing yet, just a shell.

Are these to be ported out of the bottom as well?

And a side note, thanks for the reference material. Very, very nice. It certainly highlights the Statements. I have had them fired up for a week and am still amazed everytime I listen to them.

You, Curt, and Wayne are to be commended for a fantastic design. :T

Wade

[Sefferdog]

You need to step back a foot or so with that picture so that we can also see the ceiling or something else to give scale to the speakers. In that photo, they just don't look that big. 8O

Ryan, here is a pic with some of the room for perspective. The sub beside it is 26" tall, the TV is 53", and the tree beside them is an even 7'. The flat part of the ceiling is standard 8'.

This may help get a handle on the size. They are VERY imposing.

My wife was off visiting her mother when I brought them in a hooked them up. When she got home a few days later and looked at them her response was "oh my", but she is used to me and my hobbies so that is all that was said. Gotta love a woman like that!

[ahaik]

Nice and very fast work Wade, I'm starting to get gellous :W
Also Thank you Jim for the DVD , got here today, but I didn't have time to convert it yet. I'm sorry to hear about the trouble with the piano finish
A little update on my side, Since I powered up the Statements I had this nasty hum that came from my processor.
I had built a pair of silver IC's and received my new Shanling T-80 CDP, it has a volume control :T , yesterday I hooked it up directly to my main amp (Parasound HCA 2200 II), the hum was gone :T :T :T . I was very impressed with the improvement in the SQ. The clarity, imaging and detail are absolutely amazing. It is hard for me to go back to using the processor. And the Vocals now are soooo clear and real. Planning to do some mods to the CDP in the near future. I will update when I do.

Asi.

[Hdale85]

You know looking at that I think they would be ok in my apartment. My ceilings are 9' I believe and right now my speakers are deeper then the Statements I believe (or is that the mini statements?) Anyways there are also little pockets in my wall right behind my speakers. I'll have to take a pic. But I think I'm going to build the fullsize Statements.

[Sefferdog]

I believe and right now my speakers are deeper then the Statements I believe (or is that the mini statements?)

Dougie, for comparison purposes the actual Statements are 16 1/2" deep, the mini Statements are 13 3/4". HTH

[Hdale85]

ok so they are about 1 inch deeper then my RF-62's.

[---k---]

Yeah, I know how big they are. My upcoming speakers are nearly the same size. I was just pointing it out, because to me that photo made them look small. And, that is just no fun. They need to be shown in all their tall glory.

[tpremo55]

Ok Jim, I see the new Avitar... when are you going to post a larger pic of the finished statements?

[Jim Holtz]

Ok Jim, I see the new Avitar... when are you going to post a larger pic of the finished statements?

Hi Todd,

Actually, I tried and couldn't figure out how Tomas did it when he edited the thread, so I sent him the picture. I'm sure he'll do it when he gets time.

Check your email....

Jim

[Hdale85]

Well from your avatar pic they look quite amazing! Hope they look that good with the big pic? Hope this can get posted soon! I would love to see the finish up close. Man now that they are painted they look extremely nice. I still don't know what to do? Mini Statements or the big boys. I have a while yet anyways.

[ThomasW]

Just put the URL of the pic off Curt's website into the post....

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks Thomas. That's one approach I didn't try.

Thanks for your help! :T

Jim

[ahaik]

Amazing work Jim !!!
:T :T :T

[chasw98]

Hey Jim!
It looks like the work you did piping in a new air system has paid off. Beautiful work!

Chuck

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Chuck!

Yes, the spray outfit worked great. I'm very pleased with the gun and having air piped to my basement workshop is extremely convenient. I have to match the center but I'll not be doing any more gloss black paint finishes. The amount of work to get them right is a killer.

I'm going to take a cue from the commercial guys and veneer, dye them black and then shoot my favorite, Crystalac on them. Much, much easier. :-)

You know how much work it is, don't you?

Jim

[sprtfan]

Hi Jim,

The finished speakers look great. Traviss has finished his cabinets and had them painted at a local auto body shop. I helped him put together the crossover last night and we plan on putting them into the speakers tonight. I'll take my camera with me so I can post a pic of the finished box. I didn't have much to do with the cabinet build process so this would be the first pic taken of the speakers.
The mini statement looks like it may be a nice fit for me but for the time being I'm still enjoying the Nat P's.
Thanks for all of your help and patience.

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Jim,

The finished speakers look great. Traviss has finished his cabinets and had them painted at a local auto body shop. I helped him put together the crossover last night and we plan on putting them into the speakers tonight. I'll take my camera with me so I can post a pic of the finished box. I didn't have much to do with the cabinet build process so this would be the first pic taken of the speakers.
The mini statement looks like it may be a nice fit for me but for the time being I'm still enjoying the Nat P's.
Thanks for all of your help and patience.

Hi Vic,

It's been my pleasure to help you guys. I'm really looking forward to seeing pictures of the finished speakers. I'll bet they're beautiful! :T

How did the crossover assembly go? Speaking from experience, double check the assembly. I've screwed up assembling crossovers many times. Also, remember the mids are reverse polarity.

I'm glad you're enjoying the Natalie P's and I hope Ryan is also enjoying the RS 3-ways.


Jim

[Sefferdog]

Hi Jim,

The finished speakers look great. Traviss has finished his cabinets and had them painted at a local auto body shop. I helped him put together the crossover last night and we plan on putting them into the speakers tonight. I'll take my camera with me so I can post a pic of the finished box. I didn't have much to do with the cabinet build process so this would be the first pic taken of the speakers.
The mini statement looks like it may be a nice fit for me but for the time being I'm still enjoying the Nat P's.
Thanks for all of your help and patience.

You gentlemen are in for a sonic treat when you stoke these babies up. They are absolutely stunning. As a plus, Jim is wonderfully free with his time and knowledge regarding the construction process. A win-win situation. Enjoy them (I am sure you will). :T

[zacjones]

I hope I'm not throwing too many questions out at once, but I'm excited from what I'm reading about these speakers, and would like to use them for my HT if it seems like they're a good choice for my application.

So...

(a) Is there any reason not to pair the statements with an IB? From what I understand, IB's are great for deep lows but their only inherent flaw is that they lack that "punch". Is a more conventional sealed speaker a more preferable design when paired with an IB?

(b) I see that a mini statement center channel is planned for release maybe next month... Is there going to be a "full statement" center channel? The mini statement looks nice on top of a tv, but would look woefully undersized under a 13.5' projection screen, especially with those beautiful towers on either side. I know many would say "who gives a ?? Sounds great!!! But with my current situation, the look and feel of the room are every bit as important as the acoustics, as my HT is in the entry room of the house. If there is no plan for a "full statement" center, I'm afraid it may not work out for me.

(c) I'm about to install two 2'x2' IB manifolds into the floor along the front wall of my HT, (2'x2' each, for a total of 8 Mach5Audio IXL 18.4 drivers), and have the option of placing the manifolds directly behind the mains or off to the sides. Which is the ideal placement for a floor manifold in relation to an open-backed speaker like the statements? Directly behind the speaker? Or off to the side and behind the speaker?

(d) Lastly, can I place the statements within a foot or so of the side walls? What is the ideal distance? The farther into the corner I can tuck them, the bigger my screen gets!!!

I'm going to start cutting holes in my floor in a few days...

So thanks everyone for reading through my concerns---any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

[Jim Holtz]

My responses are in line...

(a) Is there any reason not to pair the statements with an IB? From what I understand, IB's are great for deep lows but their only inherent flaw is that they lack that "punch". Is a more conventional sealed speaker a more preferable design when paired with an IB?

The statements have a F3 of 33 Hz. IMHO, below 40 Hz. is all about shake and rumble. I'm not that familiar with IB subs but when you cross that low, integration will not be a problem. Whether the subs put out the bass you want will be dependent on the sub design, not the Statements.

(b) I see that a mini statement center channel is planned for release maybe next month... Is there going to be a "full statement" center channel? The mini statement looks nice on top of a tv, but would look woefully undersized under a 13.5' projection screen, especially with those beautiful towers on either side. I know many would say "who gives a ?? Sounds great!!! But with my current situation, the look and feel of the room are every bit as important as the acoustics, as my HT is in the entry room of the house. If there is no plan for a "full statement" center, I'm afraid it may not work out for me.

The center channel is actually designed to work with either the Statements or the mini's and will have a F3 around 40 Hz. Sorry, but there will *not* be a center with RS225 woofers. A cabinet size of 4'-5' wide isn't going to happen. The center as designed will hit in excess of 105+ DB which should handle any home theater situation with ease and be a perfect sonic match for either the Statements or the Mini's..

(c) I'm about to install two 2'x2' IB manifolds into the floor along the front wall of my HT, (2'x2' each, for a total of 8 Mach5Audio IXL 18.4 drivers), and have the option of placing the manifolds directly behind the mains or off to the sides. Which is the ideal placement for a floor manifold in relation to an open-backed speaker like the statements? Directly behind the speaker? Or off to the side and behind the speaker?

I'm not well versed in IB subs so hopefully Thomas or some one who is into big bass will jump in.

(d) Lastly, can I place the statements within a foot or so of the side walls? What is the ideal distance? The farther into the corner I can tuck them, the bigger my screen gets!!!

I'm going to start cutting holes in my floor in a few days...

So thanks everyone for reading through my concerns---any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

The ideal distance is 1 1/2' or greater from the back of the speaker to the back wall. They will work as close as 12". The more breathing room on the sides the better. I have mine about 19" from the side walls and they work fine. I can't comment on closer than that.

The Statements will do home theater extremely well but they are also superb on music. If you're doing pure home theater, there are other designs that will cost less and do home theater just as well. There are a couple under development and others here in the Mission Accomplished section that you might want to check out. You also might want to check out line arrays. They rock for home theater.

Jim

[zacjones]

Wow thanks Jim for the speedy reply.

So no full statement center. Oh well.

How doable would it be to add one more RS180 to each side to give the speaker the length I'm looking for? I guess I could just build the cabinet long, and stick extra speakers in and not even hook them up, but I'd rather have them doing more than a little passive radiation...

Could two more RS180's be worked into that crossover somehow?

[Jim Holtz]

Wow thanks Jim for the speedy reply.

So no full statement center. Oh well.

How doable would it be to add one more RS180 to each side to give the speaker the length I'm looking for? I guess I could just build the cabinet long, and stick extra speakers in and not even hook them up, but I'd rather have them doing more than a little passive radiation...

Could two more RS180's be worked into that crossover somehow?

Unfortunately, you can't just add in drivers with out building an appropriate cabinet, measuring response with the drivers installed and then design the crossover. You could tack drivers in but I agree that it would be a waste. Have you looked at the W-M/T-W RS 3-way thread here in mission accomplished? That center would of course match the RS 3-way speakers but it would also match the new W-M/T/M-W speaker that Ryan and Chris are developing. They both use RS225's in the mains and in the center with a RS150 as the mids. They'll do great home theater.

HTH

Jim

[zacjones]

Alright then. No home theater statement.

I'll just have to build them for the den!

thanks Jim.

[Hdale85]

Kind of silly that you don't want to build them because they won't look as good under your screen :B But thats what DIY is I suppose.

[BobEllis]

Wow thanks Jim for the speedy reply.

So no full statement center. Oh well.

How doable would it be to add one more RS180 to each side to give the speaker the length I'm looking for? I guess I could just build the cabinet long, and stick extra speakers in and not even hook them up, but I'd rather have them doing more than a little passive radiation...

Could two more RS180's be worked into that crossover somehow?

If you could do some measuring it shouldn't be too difficult to build a larger cabinet with RS225s and crossover W/Mid actively. I don't find building active crossovers on prototype board particularly challenging, but I do have a fair amount of experience.

To just add another pair of RS180s you could use the least expensive Behringer unit (model number escapes me) and roll the outside ones off around 200 Hz.

I have a large active version of the RS225/150/H1112 center in work (darned earning a living keeps getting in the way of fun). About 44" wide, 13" high and 18" deep gave it around 4 ft^3 tuned to ~30 Hz. It looks about right to a bit big under my 61" TV.