It's time for a Statement announcing my latest project..

[Sefferdog]

I like the way Wade lined it, leaving ample breathing room around the mid enclosures. Looks like 1" batts from here. just about perfect in my book.

C

The fiberglass is an R13 Mini Roll from Owens Corning I bought from Lowes. It was kraft faced and 3 1/2 inches thick. I pulled the paper from it and a little of the insulation stayed on there, of course. This left me with a 15" wide piece of fiberglass, 3 inches thick. I separated the fiberglass into two pieces 1.5 inches thick, cut to fit and glued inside the Statements.

Probably not the most scientific way, but it seemed to work okay and was very easy to do with readily available fiberglass. Did I mention one of my favorite features of doing it this way? It was cheap! HTH

[ahaik]

Some of the best (and not too expensive) internal hookup wire is the surplus mil-spec (silver coated copper with teflon insulation) stuff from apex-jr. 14 ga. should be fine as the runs are all short. Single strand wire is more convenient than double strand for wiring crossovers and you can twist two strands together for the runs to the drivers. It comes in colors so you can keep + and - straight.

http://www.apexjr.com/wire.html

Hope I'm not late for the party, just got back from vaccation.
From research I did for DIY interconnects, it looks like silver plated copper gets the worst of both worlds. You better off using copper only (silver is better).
I don't know if the same goes for speaker wire, it might be worth looking into.

Asi.

[---k---]

Thomas and Jon are big believers in the ptfe silver plated copper wire from Apexjr. You'll see it in all of Jon's crossovers. Therefore, I think I would trust it.

In my crossovers, I just used some 14ga stranded from the 500' spools in the Home Depot electrical isle. If you believe coper is coper, in the automotive section at Menards (and I assume everywhere) you can find 50' spools of 14ga stranded even cheaper/ft.

[Dennis H]

Audio esoterica aside, the main thing about military spec wire is it works without problems for a long time, even in adverse conditions. The silver is to keep the copper from corroding and the teflon is to resist melting at high temps. If you're driving a tank, steering a submarine or flying a jet, all controlled by computers these days, you really don't want a wire to fail while the bad guys are after you.

[ahaik]

Thomas and Jon are big believers in the ptfe silver plated copper wire from Apexjr. You'll see it in all of Jon's crossovers. Therefore, I think I would trust it.

In my crossovers, I just used some 14ga stranded from the 500' spools in the Home Depot electrical isle. If you believe coper is coper, in the automotive section at Menards (and I assume everywhere) you can find 50' spools of 14ga stranded even cheaper/ft.

If its good enough for Thomas and Jon, it's good enough for me .
The research I made was for interconnects ONLY and the sources were very credible IMO.

Asi

[mlammert]

The rule of thumb is to have the port away from any boundaries equal to the diameter of the port.

I was just wondering how detrimental it would be to have the port closer than 3 inches to a side wall of the speaker???

The reason I ask is that I am currently designing a set of statements with curved sides... The front baffle is the same width as the original... However, the rear wall of the speaker is only going to be approximately 6-7 inches wide... Which would mean my 3 inch diameter port would be about 1-2 inches from the side walls...

I hope my explanation and question make sense...

Thank you all for all your input... I am so excited to actually start building these soon...

Mark

[CupCak3]

mlammert: Are you planning on using the precision flared ports? This comment comes only from my training in fluid dynamics and not speaker design, but since your port is in the vertical, I don't see it being a problem.

Jim: I am planning on doing the modified 40" tall Statements and attaching them to bass bins. Taking out tunnel, bracing and driver volume, I came out to 60L for the box. I plan on crossing the sub and mains b/t 40 and 60 hz. What are your thoughts on a sealed design or a ported tuned to ~35hz with wall covering to get the extra extension. I would probably have to top mount the port (ick) or rear mount it and put some of the port length out of the box.

Thanks!

[Jim Holtz]

mlammert: Are you planning on using the precision flared ports? This comment comes only from my training in fluid dynamics and not speaker design, but since your port is in the vertical, I don't see it being a problem.

Jim: I am planning on doing the modified 40" tall Statements and attaching them to bass bins. Taking out tunnel, bracing and driver volume, I came out to 60L for the box. I plan on crossing the sub and mains b/t 40 and 60 hz. What are your thoughts on a sealed design or a ported tuned to ~35hz with wall covering to get the extra extension. I would probably have to top mount the port (ick) or rear mount it and put some of the port length out of the box.

Thanks!

Hi CupCak3,

Do a search for CBS's posts. That is my friend Chris that did exactly what you are proposing. He used TC Sounds 1000 15" subs as his bass bin. The combination of sealed bass in the Statements and the sealed TC Sounds subs produces incredibly tight, clean an accurate bass for music and plaster cracking bass for movies.

Build the main Statements cabinet 40" tall instead of 55" and you'll be right on the money. Same width and depth. Chris is crossing about 40 Hz. with a 24 db crossover in a 1000 watt PE rack mount sub amp driving two subs.

If I were building the Statements today, I would very, very seriously consider building them sealed. The sound quality is just phenomenal, IMHO.

HTH

Jim

[CupCak3]

Jim: Thank you for your prompt response I've actually read Chris's posts as I've been following this thread for a long time, waiting until I've made enough progress on my den/HT room to start the speakers Chris (or someone) did an AMAZING job with veneer work on those boxes!

I wish I was at work so I could post some screenshots right now of the CAD layout I've done, but my plan is to use bass bins with an external height of 19.5". They will use front firing AE AV15s with dual PR18 passive radiators with 2100g of mass.

I'm hoping to use 1" spikes. This will put the tweet at 40.5" I'll mount the Statement flush with front of the bins so I'm contemplating shifting the statement speakers down 1" or so. My sitting ear height is around 41 or 42 inches so 40.5" is great, but I wouldn't mind getting them a bit lower, since I'll probably spend most of my time reclined and would want to maximize the vertical dispersion

From my unibox model, I'm getting -6bd at 40hz. Did Chris have no problem crossing so low b/c of his room gain?

If you have the CAD files or can point me to who has them, I'd me more than happy to update a set for the 40" sealed versions.

Best regards.
Drew

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Drew,

It sounds like you've got a plan. A sealed cad drawing hasn't been created so if you have something that would help in the construction, I'd really appreciate it if you'd email it to me so we could post it on Curt's website and link to it from here.

I have an AE AV-15 myself and it's an excellent sub. If I remember correctly, F3 is about 34 Hz. sealed in a 3.5 cube cabinet not counting room gain. Sure you want to go with a passive radiator? With room gain, you'll not be short of bass.

Chris didn't have any problems at all integrating the subs at 40 Hz. I've found sealed mains and sealed subs integrate extremely well at the F6 point of the mains. Seamless. :T

We're looking forward to seeing build pictures!

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

I should clarify that the Statements ported are exceptional both on music and home theater. Bass is strong, tactile, extremely clean, tight and accurate. However, sealed with ultra low distortion sealed subs crossing as low as they do, does take the upper and mid bass up a touch in sound quality. You've got to have darn good front end equipment and listen to pristine recordings to really appreciate it though. If you are a connoisseur and want to squeeze the last drop of bass sound quality, sealed is very nice and recommended.

The dual subs do quickly add to the cost. I'd also recommend a very low distortion sub driver to equal the sound quality of the sealed Statements.

Jim

[CupCak3]

Yes, I'm a guy who loves SQ but is a bit of a bass head. 110db+ @ 16hz for just one bin MAY be a bit ridiculous and overkill. :^x My setup will mainly be used for HT and gaming, and these medias are finding more and better ways of getting alot of deep and also subsonic bass in their tracks. Ahhhh, I don't think my wife knows what she agreed to (though I've made every effort to ensure she's informed ) After having several in depth discussions with John @ AE; it sounds like he's done some great things with the new AE15's to lower distortion and increase thermal losses. I really can't wait to try a pair out.

If my traveling for work doesn't pick up too much, I hope to start these within the next month.

Now off to do some more reading so I can finally make a decision on surrounds! :banghead:

[Curt C]

I was just wondering how detrimental it would be to have the port closer than 3 inches to a side wall of the speaker???

When you consider the wavelength of the port tuning frequency, the narrower sidewalls will have negligible effect.

C

[mlammert]

Direction I am Going

Thanks for the comments on the ports guys...

Attached is a quick look at the curved side wall Statements I am planning on building...

I still have not decided where to put the port yet...

Just wanted to share the pics and concept and see if anyone had any positive/negative comments...

Thanks!!!

Mark

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks for the comments on the ports guys...

Attached is a quick look at the curved side wall Statements I am planning on building...

I still have not decided where to put the port yet...

Just wanted to share the picts and concept and see if anyone had any positive/negative comments...

Thanks!!!

Mark

Hi Mark,

It looks great! Now some thoughts. First thing to do is go HERE and see what Todd did on his build since his Statements are almost identical to your cabinet design. Search for posts by Tpremo55 and you'll find a lot of good info and advice about building the cabinet.

The drawing looks good and I'm not sure how accurate it is for driver placement but it is extremely important that the ribbon be at ear level when seated in your normal listening position for the best sound quality. The ribbon actually has excellent vertical dispersion but like all tweeters, ear height is best.

Secondly, be sure to allow access to the crossover after the speaker is completed. You just may need to pull it out and make changes. I know I've had to before.

Good luck with the build. Please post pictures along the way!

Best regards,

Jim

[mlammert]

Thanks for all the great advice, Jim...

Search for posts by Tpremo55 and you'll find a lot of good info and advice about building the cabinet.

I have actually talked to Todd quite a bit regarding his speaker build... He has been most helpful...

The drawing looks good and I'm not sure how accurate it is for driver placement but it is extremely important that the ribbon be at ear level when seated in your normal listening position for the best sound quality.

I created the drawing in Google SketchUp, so once in the actual program it is at full 1:1 scale... Right now the center of the tweeter is right around 32 inches from the floor...

I am thinking of creating just a simple "chamber" of "dead space" at the bottom of the speaker to make it a little taller so that the tweeter is precisely at ear level... I will probably create another matching chamber at the top so that the speaker looks balanced vertically...

Secondly, be sure to allow access to the crossover after the speaker is completed.

That is an excellent point... I could probably use the above mentioned chamber for the crossover compartment...

It is going to be a little while before I get the tools and shop ready for the speaker build... But, I will be sure to post pictures and progress reports as I go...

Again, thanks to all for all your help...

Mark

[mlammert]

Volume of Statement Speakers and Internal Bracing

Hi all,

It has been a while since high school geometry... Would someone be kind enough to review my estimates of the internal volume of the original Statement speaker design that Jim did and my new design that I have come up with??? I know you won't know my dimensions and whatnot but if someone could just double-check my math and primarily my logic, I would greatly appreciate it...

Original Volume for Jim’s Speakers

Overall Net Internal Volume = 53.5 x 10 x 14.5 = 7757.5 cu in

Volume of Internal Bracing and Midrange Enclosures
Shelf Brace = 0.75 x 10 x 14.5 x 1 = 108.750 cu in
Cut Out in Shelf Brace = 0.75 x 8 x 12.5 x 1 = -75.000 cu in
Midrange Enclosure Top and Bottom = 0.75 x 6.5 x 14.5 x 4 = 282.750 cu in
Midrange Enclosure Sides = 0.75 x 5 x 14.5 x 4 = 217.500 cu in
Midrange Void = 5 x 5 x 14.5 x 2 = 725.000 cu in
Midrange Side Braces = 0.75 x 1.75 x 16.25 x 4 = 85.313 cu in
Back Brace = 0.75 x 5 x 10 x 2 = 75.000 cu in

Overall Displacement of Internal Objects = 1451.313 cu in

NOTE: Speaker Volume and Port Volume and Crossover Volume will remain consistent across both speakers so those volumes will not be factored into the gross calculations…

Overall Gross Internal Volume = 7757.5 - 1451.313 = 6306.187 cu in

------------------------------------------------------------------------

New Volume for Mark’s Speakers

Volume of Internal Bracing and Midrange Enclosures
Top and Bottom Braces = 98.669 x 2 = 197.338 cu in
Vented Braces = 61.841 x 2 = 123.682 cu in
Midrange Braces = 87.048 x 4 = 348.192 cu in
Midrange Walls = 50.040 x 4 = 200.160 cu in
Midrange Void = 5 x 5 x 14.5 x 2 = 725.000 cu in

Overall Displacement of Internal Objects = 1594.372 cu in

Gross Internal Volume We Are Aiming For = 6306.187 cu in

Overall Net Volume We Are Aiming For = 1594.372 + 6306.187 = 7900.559 cu in

Based on the overall net volume and the fact that the internal bottom of the speaker is 131.558 sq in, we need an overall side wall height of 60 inches (131.558 x 60 = 7893.48)… Which means the front baffle and back wall needs to be 61.5 inches tall to compensate for the 3/4 inch top and bottom caps…

Thanks again,
Mark

[CupCak3]

your calc for Jim's vol. is pretty close to what I recieved when going through the design.

Your logic seems pretty sound for the "new volume", but keep in mind Jim's advice for the tweet height and don't forget to take into account spikes or anything else which will add to the vertical dimension. You can "shift" the whole driver layout up or down without having to alter the crossover design to achieve optimal height.

[Brian Bunge]

When Curt has a chance I'd love to hear his opinion on keeping the MTM height the same but moving the top woofer below for an MTMWW design. This would allow for a shorter cabinet and depth could be increased to get the appropriate volume for the 225's. I wonder how this would affect the overall design of the speaker.

[mlammert]

Thanks for your feedback CupCak3!!!

your calc for Jim's vol. is pretty close to what I recieved when going through the design.

What were the calcs that you received when doin gyour design???

Your logic seems pretty sound for the "new volume", but keep in mind Jim's advice for the tweet height and don't forget to take into account spikes or anything else which will add to the vertical dimension.

Yeah, I plan on making the tweeter height correct at ear level... The feet are the only part of the design that I have left... The feet/base will either make up the remaining height or I will shift the speaker positions up to account for it...

Thanks again,
Mark

[CupCak3]

I can't find them at the moment but they volume was around 100L

[Jim Holtz]

The overall cabinet volume is 123.5 liters with about 100 liters dedicated to the RS225's. I've attached the boxycad spread sheet in a zip file I used to determine cabinet size.

EDIT: Sorry! The Boxycad file is too large to upload. If anyone wants it, please send me an email.

HTH

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

When Curt has a chance I'd love to hear his opinion on keeping the MTM height the same but moving the top woofer below for an MTMWW design. This would allow for a shorter cabinet and depth could be increased to get the appropriate volume for the 225's. I wonder how this would affect the overall design of the speaker.

Hi Brian,

You'd better email Curt directly with the question. He doesn't monitor the board that much. My guess is that it'd be a complete redesign of the crossover.

Were you able to stop by Wade's house over the holidays?

Jim

[Sefferdog]

Hi Brian,

Were you able to stop by Wade's house over the holidays?

Jim

I can answer that, we did not hook up. I didn't hear back from Brian and assumed that he probably had some other family commitments come up over the holidays. I am sure we will hook up soon.

[Curt C]

When Curt has a chance I'd love to hear his opinion on keeping the MTM height the same but moving the top woofer below for an MTMWW design. This would allow for a shorter cabinet and depth could be increased to get the appropriate volume for the 225's. I wonder how this would affect the overall design of the speaker.

Hi Brian!

At the pass band frequencies of the woofers, one would think that it wouldn’t matter much where the woofers are located. However, there seems to be something to say about the symmetrical wavefront the Statements provided which gave a more realistic ‘feel’ to the bass. More like a line array. With a TMWW, the bass image is obviously separate from the majority of the sonic image, while a WMTMW has all the images vertically centered. The acoustic energy was the same, so I don’t have an explanation for it other than it might have to do with psychoacoustics and how the brain processes the sound.

My Exclamation! design is a TMWW also utilizing the RS225’s and was set up at the same time as we designing the crossover for the Statement series. The Statements had more satisfying bass, but at the time I had the Exclamations! in a bit of an under damped alignment.. While I probably won’t remake the Exclamations into a symmetrical design, I did prefer the bass of the Statements.

I see no reason you cannot do a MTMWW based on the Statements design, and likely the same crossover will get you within tweaking distance.

C

[ThomasW]

If someone is documenting a build (something we encourage everyone to do since it benefits others), please start an individual build thread for your project in the main section of the forum. That way your build doesn't get buried/lost in a huge main design thread. And hopefully we keep the main design thread a 'reasonable' length.

When your build is complete, I'll post the URL in a list posted at the beginning of main design thread.

[CupCak3]

Jim: What type of issues have you had w/ the t-nuts? I was looking at using them (though I have no experience with them).

Regards,
Drew

[Jim Holtz]

Jim: What type of issues have you had w/ the t-nuts? I was looking at using them (though I have no experience with them).

Regards,
Drew

Hi Drew,

They come loose and spin on the inside so you can't get the screw out. I would highly recommend using #8 deep thread screws.

Jim

[mlammert]

Speaker Grill Construction and Effects

Hi all,

I am sure this has been asked before but I have searched and searched and cannot find any threads on it...

My questions are:
1) What is the best way to go about building speaker grills???

2) And, what positive/negative effects do that have on the sound of the speakers, if any???

I found a few articles on using the hidden magnets to mount the grills, but nothing really on how to actually build the grills...

My initial thought is to create a "frame" out of thin hardboard or something like that and wrap fabric over it... But, I would think the "frame" would interfere with the speaker's sound... Especially since the drivers are flush mounted...

Does anybody have any advice or insight on building custom speaker grills???

I want to use them on the Statements that I will be building... Personally, the multi-color drivers (black and silver) kind of bother me... Silly, but true...

Thanks,
Mark

[Jim Holtz]

Hi all,

I am sure this has been asked before but I have searched and searched and cannot find any threads on it...

My questions are:
1) What is the best way to go about building speaker grills???

2) And, what positive/negative effects do that have on the sound of the speakers, if any???

I found a few articles on using the hidden magnets to mount the grills, but nothing really on how to actually build the grills...

My initial thought is to create a "frame" out of thin hardboard or something like that and wrap fabric over it... But, I would think the "frame" would interfere with the speaker's sound... Especially since the drivers are flush mounted...

Does anybody have any advice or insight on building custom speaker grills???

I want to use them on the Statements that I will be building... Personally, the multi-color drivers (black and silver) kind of bother me... Silly, but true...

Thanks,
Mark

Hi Mark,

Here is a great tutorial on building speaker grills and is how I do it. I build my frames out of 1/2" MDF and I do use 3M #77 rather than #90. It works better. I follow up with a staple gun and shoot short staples every few inches to be safe. Hard board might work too but 1/2" MDF is light enough and sturdy enough to work quite well. I've also used magnets and they work great.

Speaker crossovers are designed with out grills and are optimized to sound best with out them. If you're doing casual listening, the grill won't hurt a thing, but if you are seriously listening, they will sound better with the grills off.

Personally, I really like the contrast of the drivers but different strokes...

HTH

Jim

[mlammert]

Here is a great tutorial on building speaker grills and is how I do it. I build my frames out of 1/2" MDF and I do use 3M #77 rather than #90. It works better. I follow up with a staple gun and shoot short staples every few inches to be safe. Hard board might work too but 1/2" MDF is light enough and sturdy enough to work quite well. I've also used magnets and they work great.

Thanks for the link and advice, Jim... That is exactly what I was looking for...

Speaker crossovers are designed with out grills and are optimized to sound best with out them. If you're doing casual listening, the grill won't hurt a thing, but if you are seriously listening, they will sound better with the grills off.

I see your point... I think I will build the grills for wife approval and from keeping nosy hands off and go from there... If I use the magnets, one will never know if something is "missing" when the grills are off...

Personally, I really like the contrast of the drivers but different strokes...

Yeah, who knows... I might really like it once I see it in real life...

Thanks again,
Mark

[Coconutout]

i was about to spend $150 getting new set of tubes for my preamp for even smoother sound and thought hm, why not try the bamboo version of tangband w4 instead? as i understand they have same spec. just different cone material? change my statements shall i?

[CupCak3]

you would probably need a crossover change. the two drivers have diff TS parameters

[Jim Holtz]

i was about to spend $150 getting new set of tubes for my preamp for even smoother sound and thought hm, why not try the bamboo version of tangband w4 instead? as i understand they have same spec. just different cone material? change my statements shall i?

If you are hearing harshness in your system with the Statements, its not the Statements, it's something else in the system. I've been there and done that. Crappy recordings will be revealed in all of their glory though. Metal drivers are very, very revealing.

Different mids would require a complete crossover redesign.

HTH

Jim

[Coconutout]

harshness problem solved. i had a plexi glass terranium sitting behind the couch where my head was- today i took the lizard out, filled it up with water, put some fish in and voila. no more nasty vibrations.

[Dennis H]

harshness problem solved. i had a plexi glass terranium sitting behind the couch where my head was- today i took the lizard out, filled it up with water, put some fish in and voila. no more nasty vibrations.

I'm glad it's better but it's still a problem. For critical listening, I'd prop up a pillow or something covering the face of the tank. When you have huge room problems like this, messing with amps, fine-tuning speakers, etc. is an exercise in futility.

[ThomasW]

2 pages of posts about NateTTU's build have moved to a separate thread...

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28721

[NateTTU]

Hahaha, thanks Thomas. If you could do me one more favor, please add a couple of empty posts to the beginning of that thread so I can update with photos so it will become a true build thread. Thanks.

[ThomasW]

Posts go in a thread according to the date they're created, so anything added now can't be back dated.

You can go in and edit your first post inserting any amount of information you want to add. In addition there's no limit to the number of times you can edit a post.

NOTE If anyone has a link to this thread in a website or elsewhere, the URL of the thread changed yesterday as a result of the thread splitting process, so update your link accordingly

[dyak]

Gonna begin construction soon!

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here on HTguide, but I've been following the thread for a couple of months. I'm really psyched about this design. I'm waiting for tax-return time to purchase materials, though in the meantime I have a question or two. Thanks in advance.

First up: I'm wondering if anyone can help me understand what sort of likely audible impact one would expect if they used a damping vinyl or some heavy-duty-felt to completely cover the listener-side of the front baffle? I'm thinking something similar to what Sonus Faber does on many of its designs with the leather covered baffle.

Here's some of that vinyl that I'm considering: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=268-035

Even though this vinyl, "has a grain leather finish and is cosmetically pleasing.." :roll: I know it won't look as nice as the gorgeous veneer work I've seen posted in this thread ;x( , but it would keep from having to work the veneer over the round-overs....I'd only have to veneer the sides and top...

For those of you thinking, "Hmmm, Doug, you'd probably get better benefit by using the vinyl on the inside of the cabinet. " ....well I would have to agree with you, so my thoughts at this point are that I will probably use both the vinyl and some 3/4" PE Sonic Barrier foam on the insides of the cabinets & mid-tunnels....but I'm really wondering what the likely change in sound would be from the front baffle application.

Jim, Curtis, and Wayne, thank you for time and efforts in producing such a well designed piece of work. :T I'm really excited about this build!

Thanks, and regards to all,

Doug

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here on HTguide, but I've been following the thread for a couple of months. I'm really psyched about this design. I'm waiting for tax-return time to purchase materials, though in the meantime I have a question or two. Thanks in advance.

First up: I'm wondering if anyone can help me understand what sort of likely audible impact one would expect if they used a damping vinyl or some heavy-duty-felt to completely cover the listener-side of the front baffle? I'm thinking something similar to what Sonus Faber does on many of its designs with the leather covered baffle.

Here's some of that vinyl that I'm considering: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=268-035

Even though this vinyl, "has a grain leather finish and is cosmetically pleasing.." :roll: I know it won't look as nice as the gorgeous veneer work I've seen posted in this thread ;x( , but it would keep from having to work the veneer over the round-overs....I'd only have to veneer the sides and top...

For those of you thinking, "Hmmm, Doug, you'd probably get better benefit by using the vinyl on the inside of the cabinet. " ....well I would have to agree with you, so my thoughts at this point are that I will probably use both the vinyl and some 3/4" PE Sonic Barrier foam on the insides of the cabinets & mid-tunnels....but I'm really wondering what the likely change in sound would be from the front baffle application.

Jim, Curtis, and Wayne, thank you for time and efforts in producing such a well designed piece of work. :T I'm really excited about this build!

Thanks, and regards to all,

Doug

Hi Doug,

Welcome to the HT Guide. I'd like to compliment you on a great choice in speakers to build. :T I'm confident you'll be extremely pleased with the sound quality of the finished speakers. Enough tooting the horn.

To answer your questions:

Vinyl on the front baffle won't make a difference. materials that absorb sound would but the vinyl's purpose is to deaden the cabinet so no effect in this application.

Sonic barrier would work fine on the inside of the RS225 compartments. One inch open cell foam is required for the mid tunnel transmission lines, however. You might consider the 1 1/4" Sonic Barrier and skip the vinyl on the inside. The 1 1/4" stuff has a barrier built in I believe. Honestly, the cabinet is well enough braced that I really don't feel additional deadening is required. Line the RS225 compartment walls with foam/fiberglass/Sonic Barrier/Whispermat/Blackhole 5 etc. and you will be good to go. I think all will work just fine.

Once you get started building the cabinets, please start a separate thread with pictures of course.

HTH

Jim

[agrippa]

long time no talk

Hey guys,
GREAT JOB. love this post.
Boy... I remember Iowa 2006(i still use that cd) and talking about the dayton 3 ways with a visaton 4". I wanted to do that but the money and technical know how wasn't there. Since then I built a bigger version of the dayton 3 way wwmtmww. Almost the same idea but 7 feet tall. I then gave them to my church and they are now are used for the organ along with two "wicked one" subs (I built these also0. They can shake the lights and windows. I really missed that pile of wood and magnets.

Now that after a few smaller projects (under $50) I am back to looking at THEE reference for my room. This might be it. These seem to have what I am looking for with out being too big. I must ponder this. Ribbons...hmmm. Maybe this summer.


I should say that I have bad habit of making speakers and then giving them away... If I go for this I will have to finally kept a set for myself.

[Brian Bunge]

I may be building a pair of these for someone but will probably be doing sealed cabinets with a sealed side-firing 15" driver for a single, tall slim cabinet. That being said, would there be any negative affect to making the cabinets a few inches deeper? I just want to make sure that it's not going to have a negative affect on the mids if the tunnels are several inches longer.

[dyak]

Heya Jim,

Thanks for the warm welcome!!

Great to hear that the vinyl should not negatively affect the sound! My last pair of speakers had roundovers on both the sides and top of the front baffle....so I laid the veneer on the front baffle so I'd have one continuous piece up front and then I had a "nice" time getting the veneer to work around the interface of the roundover on the side where it met the roundover on the top. It turned out well, but it was a real bear!! So, if I can find another means to cover the front that will sound as good (or better) and will look A-OK, I'm giving it consideration at this point.

Cool beans....OK, I gotcha on the mid-tunnels too. :T I'll try the 1" open cell first and then if I have some sonic barrier left over I may fiddle with it too.... My original thought for using the thinner 3/4" Sonic barrier foam in the mid-tunnels was two-fold; I have my speakers about 5' from the front wall (~3.5' from the backs to the wall) and I have fairly extensive room-treatment..(for DIY room treatment: wall panels, bass-traps etc: http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/index2.htm) ...so my thought process was to try the thinner foam in hopes that there would be a slight increase in mid "presence" to compensate for the extra distance and the room treatments.

OK, here's another (maybe weird?) question.... In your opinion, would it be destructive to the sound if I tried to achieve a "best of both worlds" :W kind of bass.....Combining both sealed and ported woofers... I ran some #s really quickly and at first blush it seems that the volumes might work out nearly ideally? My thought was to "tack" a removable piece of MDF on top of the upper mid tunnel (temporarily sealed in there with mortite/rope caulk) so the top woofer was effectively in a sealed enclosure and the bottom woofer was ported. I love the punch of sealed and the heft of the ported enclosures....any thoughts? I've not seen or read of this before...is this a big sonic "no-no"?

One more thought. I think either you or Curtis had mentioned that you listen primarily with your speakers facing straight ahead and thus you designed the vertical centers of the tweets, mids, and woofs so they'd all be aligned. Is there a resource that you could refer me to so that I could read-up on this, please? I usually listen with my speakers aimed at or near the listening position, so should I consider sliding the tweets/mids off-center or is that not worth consideration? (my last DIY towers had the mids horizontally offset from the tweet/woofer centerline.)

Thanks again! !!!SOON!!!

Best!

Doug

[Jim Holtz]

Hey guys,
GREAT JOB. love this post.
Boy... I remember Iowa 2006(i still use that cd) and talking about the dayton 3 ways with a visaton 4". I wanted to do that but the money and technical know how wasn't there. Since then I built a bigger version of the dayton 3 way wwmtmww. Almost the same idea but 7 feet tall. I then gave them to my church and they are now are used for the organ along with two "wicked one" subs (I built these also0. They can shake the lights and windows. I really missed that pile of wood and magnets.

Now that after a few smaller projects (under $50) I am back to looking at THEE reference for my room. This might be it. These seem to have what I am looking for with out being too big. I must ponder this. Ribbons...hmmm. Maybe this summer.


I should say that I have bad habit of making speakers and then giving them away... If I go for this I will have to finally kept a set for myself.

Hi Paul,

It's good to her from you again. I didn't think I saw you at the Iowa DIY event last fall. The statements and Mini statements were both there.

Reference is in the ear of the beholder. I can say, the Statements are my reference and will be for quite some time. I know this thread has gotten very long but there are many builder reviews to read if you take the time to find them.

Let us know if we can be of any help.

Jim