Wide baffle, shallow depth cabinet for Dayton RS TMWW

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  • ksudar
    Junior Member
    • Apr 2004
    • 26

    Wide baffle, shallow depth cabinet for Dayton RS TMWW

    Hi all,

    I have a pair of the sealed Dayton RS TMWW towers that I built about 12-13 years ago with help from members of this forum. These have been in daily use in my living room ever since and I am very happy with them. Problem is, my room placement now would benefit from something that doesn't protrude from the wall so much. I've been eyeing a pair of Boston Acoustic A400s which look to be about 7" deep and can be placed right up against the wall. Then I had the idea that it might be feasible to just rebuild the cabinets for my towers, keeping the same drivers and crossover but shifting the cabinet dimensions so that they'd be the same height but 7" deep and around 22" wide. Would this require any changes to the crossover? Any other issues I would need to consider?
  • chrisn
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2007
    • 166

    #2
    You would need a new crossover due to the much wider baffle and the near wall placement, and the mid may not be able to keep up (idr how much padding is on it) but it would be a nice update to the design. Are yours built with the Dayton or Seas tweeters?

    Comment

    • chrisn
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2007
      • 166

      #3
      Just for fun I simulated Curt's XO with all Dayton RS drivers, with each driver the same distance from the top edge as the original design, but on a much wider 22" baffle. Drivers are centered, no offset. The mid can actually keep up, and maybe the tweeter can with some XO changes. This doesn't take into account the near wall situation of course.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	Stock CC RS TMWW XO wide 1.jpg
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      Comment

      • ksudar
        Junior Member
        • Apr 2004
        • 26

        #4
        Yeah, unfortunately I don't have any experience with crossover design so trying to modify it for the wider baffle is probably beyond my abilities. Also, I'm using the Seas 27TBFC/G tweeter. Would that change anything?

        Comment

        • chrisn
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2007
          • 166

          #5
          Might be similar results, who designed the crossover for that one?

          Comment

          • ksudar
            Junior Member
            • Apr 2004
            • 26

            #6
            I believe Dennis Murphy did the design with the Seas tweeter.

            Comment

            • thehillboys
              Member
              • Sep 2010
              • 55

              #7
              For those brainiacs, does the wider baffle increase or decrease the Bass. The baffle on my B & O recycle project are 14" which I would think would not make much difference due to the longer wavelength of the Bass. Does 22" send more bass forward?

              Comment

              • thehillboys
                Member
                • Sep 2010
                • 55

                #8
                Love to see the parts list for that crossover.

                Comment

                • thehillboys
                  Member
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 55

                  #9
                  Also does that +5db baffle step account for the 22" baffle or is it a result of it? I find if anything my design with a 14" baffle using the reference 8" driver is a bit weak without boosting the bass +5db. I designed mine pretty flat. Thinking it is just a preference of mine to have a V curve.

                  Comment

                  • dar47
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 873

                    #10
                    Hi, I built the DM version of these with the Seas 27TBFC/G. There was 3 different designs and there was request for a near wall / on wall version of the crossover but I not sure if one was completed. With your baffle change that's what would be needed no BSC or low BSC. Think your going to have to read through all the threads.

                    Comment

                    • chrisn
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 166

                      #11
                      Originally posted by dar47
                      Hi, I built the DM version of these with the Seas 27TBFC/G. There was 3 different designs and there was request for a near wall / on wall version of the crossover but I not sure if one was completed. With your baffle change that's what would be needed no BSC or low BSC. Think your going to have to read through all the threads.
                      That's definitely the one to use!

                      hillboys: that's the result of using the crossover for a narrower baffle on a much wider baffle, no other changes. It also does not take into account near wall placement.

                      Comment

                      • ksudar
                        Junior Member
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 26

                        #12
                        Definitely interested to see the discussion on near wall version, I wasn't able to find anything in my search. Do you remember which thread it was?

                        Comment

                        • chrisn
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 166

                          #13
                          http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...amp-TMWW-Mains you're gonna have to search through there unfortunately. Was there a center channel design with the tweeter you have? That might be workable.

                          Comment

                          • dar47
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 873

                            #14
                            Well I did a little look through and my memory isn't what it used to be, sorry think it was the Icognito design.

                            The easy button for this is to contact Rick Greg at Seleh Audio and ask him to do a crossover design. He usually making money off parts but charges regular DIY prices we pay as he gets for whole sale. There may be a small charge for crossover. I have used him in the past when faced with this and he does great design. :W

                            Comment

                            • ksudar
                              Junior Member
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 26

                              #15
                              Originally posted by dar47
                              Well I did a little look through and my memory isn't what it used to be, sorry think it was the Icognito design.

                              The easy button for this is to contact Rick Greg at Seleh Audio and ask him to do a crossover design. He usually making money off parts but charges regular DIY prices we pay as he gets for whole sale. There may be a small charge for crossover. I have used him in the past when faced with this and he does great design. :W
                              Thanks for the idea, I think I'll contact him and see if he can come up with something. In the meantime, I've started on my new cabinets and will post some pics soon.

                              Comment

                              • Dave Bullet
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2007
                                • 474

                                #16
                                It's Rick Craig @ Selah Audio

                                Comment

                                • 5th element
                                  Supreme Being Moderator
                                  • Sep 2009
                                  • 1671

                                  #17
                                  Wider or narrow baffle you don't really get more bass. You're still going to see a 6dB loss, at some point, in an anechoic environment, when going from half space to full space radiation.

                                  The wider baffle lowers the frequency at which this happens, but it still happens. If you had a speaker without any baffle step compensation then it would sound better with a wider baffle as you'll be getting more of the audio spectrum delivered with a flat frequency response.

                                  Placing a speaker in a room changes things though. If the bass driver is mounted close to the floor then this usually lowers the baffle step losses that it will see as the floor acts as a huge baffle.
                                  What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                  5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                  Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                  Comment

                                  • ksudar
                                    Junior Member
                                    • Apr 2004
                                    • 26

                                    #18
                                    Interesting.. with the Boston A-400s that I was looking at, they have the woofers mounted much closer to the floor. I wonder if that's something to consider doing for this re-design.

                                    Comment

                                    • 5th element
                                      Supreme Being Moderator
                                      • Sep 2009
                                      • 1671

                                      #19
                                      Yeah with that wide baffle design all of the bafflestep transition will occur within the passband of the bass drivers. Having them mounted close to the floor will significantly reduce the amount of pressure loss the speaker experiences. Maybe you'll need 1-3dB compensation.
                                      What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                      5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                      Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                      Comment

                                      • ksudar
                                        Junior Member
                                        • Apr 2004
                                        • 26

                                        #20
                                        Made some good progress on the new cabinets this week. Pulled the drivers and crossovers from my original build. Found some nasty corrosion on some of the internal wiring, can't remember where I sourced this wire but I'll be looking for something better to replace it with. Also set up a removable back panel to mount the crossover on for easy adjustments.
                                        Attached Files

                                        Comment

                                        • chrisn
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Sep 2007
                                          • 166

                                          #21
                                          looks good, smaller volume than original? Being "sideways" makes them look much smaller!

                                          Comment

                                          • ksudar
                                            Junior Member
                                            • Apr 2004
                                            • 26

                                            #22
                                            Same volume as originals, and actually the tweeter/mid enclosure ended up being exact same dimensions. Planning to add a veneered frame on the sides and paint the baffle black.

                                            Comment

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