Bluetooth portable speaker ideas...

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  • CADman_ks
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2012
    • 497

    Bluetooth portable speaker ideas...

    My wife and I go camping quite a bit, and spend a lot of time doing outdoor activities, mainly, cooking, cornholing, and sitting around the campfire. I would like to have some music while we are doing these activities. At first, I was going to buy a BT speaker, but my DIY attitude got the best of me, and I decided that I could build something better (probably not cheaper in this case) than I could buy something.

    So, I started looking around online, and there is a lot of "information" out there, but so far, I haven't ran onto a definitive source for putting all of this stuff together into a working box. I have never worked with amps, power supplies, and designing speaker x-overs. I've always used existing designs.

    This would be my list of requirements:
    BT enabled
    Decent power out of the amp (100W/chan?)
    Battery powered (ability to last at least 12H, without charging, longer if possible)
    Subwoofer (no specific size, but if possible, minimum of 8")
    Mids / Tweeters
    I don't have a max size the box can be, but as far as configuration goes, I'd be fine with more of a "tower" type design, long and slender. I would like for the whole thing to be under 50lbs, if possible, but 75 max on the weight.
    Waterproof-ish. Not looking for IP67, and I could design the box, so that it was capable of taking on some moisture without being damaged. Electronics would be inside, and/or have a door that covers them. We would take it in at night, or cover it so that it doesn't get wet if rained on

    Maybe this isn't even possible with this list of requirements.

    Does anyone know of a "resource" that one could go to find information on how to put all of these things together to make something that's functional???
    CADman_ks
    - Stentorian build...
    - Ochocinco build...
    - BT speaker / sub build...
  • Seattle
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2017
    • 16

    #2
    Can’t speak about waterproofing but Paul Carmody’s Isetta would be a good option. It is not a tower design but isn’t that big either.

    Parts Express sells it own Boombox kit too and I’ve seen people make all kinds of boxes for it including plastic and suitcases.

    Comment

    • CADman_ks
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2012
      • 497

      #3
      Thanks for the reply!

      I've seen the Isetta, but I'm thinking "bigger" than that.

      I would actually like to have a subwoofer in my box. I actually thought about using the Paul Carmody "Overnight Sensations" as the "main" speaker part, and then using an 8" sub in the bottom of the box.

      Thanks for the tip on the Parts Express boomboxes. I had looked at those, but had my stubborn DIY mind on doing my own thing, which usually ends up costing 5X what it probably should! Maybe I can figure out what they are doing with their system, and piece together mine own out of some of those components.

      Thanks again for the tips!!!
      CADman_ks
      - Stentorian build...
      - Ochocinco build...
      - BT speaker / sub build...

      Comment

      • 5th element
        Supreme Being Moderator
        • Sep 2009
        • 1671

        #4
        Something like this?

        TPS3116D2 Class D 2.1 Bluetooth 5.0 Amplifier Board 2 x 50W + 100W with Filter and Volume ControlsMake your own 2.1 multimedia wireless Bluetooth amplifier or portable speaker with this 2 x 50W + 100W amplifier board. The board accepts 12 VDC to 24 VDC which makes it perfect for making home or mobile audio projects. Make your audio project truly portable by adding three to five 18650 Li-Ion batteries.These boards are pre-tested and pre-assembled, which makes your project easy to complete. The on-board jacks, potentiometer, and screw terminals let you get this board powered up and playing music in minutes. Just connect your power source using a 2.1 x 5.5 mm DC power plug, a 3.5 mm stereo audio source, and run speaker wire from the six screw terminals to you speakers and you're done. For the most wattage output use 120-055 24 VDC power adapter. If you don't want to use the 3.5 mm jack, an optional 3-pin connector for internal line-in audio is available (wiring harnesses not included). Push and hold in the master volume control for three seconds to switch from Bluetooth to line-in source. Push in master volume control to switch back to Bluetooth. Use the built-in 150 Hz high pass filter switch on the board to protect your satellite speakers.Specifications: • Power output: 2 x 50W + 1 x 100W @ 4 ohms • Impedance: 4 ohm for satellites and 3-4 ohm for subwoofer • Chip: TPA3116*2 • SNR: 100 dB • Frequency response: 20-20,000 Hz • Signal input: 3.5 mm stereo jack or 3-pin socket • Signal output: 6 screw terminals • Power requirements: 12-24 VDC • Maximum current draw 3A • Quiescent current: 60 mA • Power input: 2.1 mm x 5.5 mm DC jack • Dimensions (not including potentiometer): 3.94" W x 0.9" H x 3.94" D • Potentiometer shaft length: 0.6" and master volume 0.64" without knobs • Bluetooth: V5.0+BR+EDR.


        Would be a very simple way to sort out almost all of the electronics for this. Then you'd need something like a 5 series Lithium-ion battery pack for the power. Actually the TPS3116 will operate from a maximum of 26V so a 6 series Lithium ion pack should be fine. 6 series will charge to a maximum of 25.2V. A 24V lead acid would potentially work but a lot of the time these will float charge to more than 26V.

        If you can find a ready made 24V lithium ion, 6S, pack, with charger, then that would work well but otherwise DIY lithium packs are not for the electronically uneducated.

        My guess would be that this is actually enough power, especially if you use 4 ohm speakers, unless you want it to get really loud.

        The size of the battery will determine how long this lasts on a charge and also add weight and cost to the device. The battery is likely to be the most expensive individual part of this. The louder you listen the less time the battery will last.

        If this were my mum and dad building this then the amplifier board above would be more than enough and I'd recommend a battery with a real capacity (lots of sellers of these lie about capacity) of around 6000mAh minimum. This would likely mean 12 18650 battery cells. 6 in series with two lots of them in parallel.

        From what I can see 24V ebike battery packs are usually 7 series cells, which is too much for this board.

        You get the idea though. I like the board above because it has a variable frequency low pass for the subwoofer channel and a high pass for the mains. The high pass is fixed at 150Hz/1st order, but it's better than nothing, and coupled with a sealed box should be decent. The subwoofer low pass is probably 2nd order.

        A very easy way to power this would be to use a big 12V lead acid battery with a power inverter to provide 120V AC. You could then use a 24V power adaptor for the amplifier module. The alternative would be to use a 12V>24V boost converter with the big lead acid battery to power the amplifier.

        Something like this...



        So you could do the entire system with a 12V lead acid battery, boost converter and the amplifier board above. Any similar boost converter would work.
        What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
        5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
        Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

        Comment

        • CADman_ks
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2012
          • 497

          #5
          Originally posted by 5th element
          Something like this?

          TPS3116D2 Class D 2.1 Bluetooth 5.0 Amplifier Board 2 x 50W + 100W with Filter and Volume ControlsMake your own 2.1 multimedia wireless Bluetooth amplifier or portable speaker with this 2 x 50W + 100W amplifier board. The board accepts 12 VDC to 24 VDC which makes it perfect for making home or mobile audio projects. Make your audio project truly portable by adding three to five 18650 Li-Ion batteries.These boards are pre-tested and pre-assembled, which makes your project easy to complete. The on-board jacks, potentiometer, and screw terminals let you get this board powered up and playing music in minutes. Just connect your power source using a 2.1 x 5.5 mm DC power plug, a 3.5 mm stereo audio source, and run speaker wire from the six screw terminals to you speakers and you're done. For the most wattage output use 120-055 24 VDC power adapter. If you don't want to use the 3.5 mm jack, an optional 3-pin connector for internal line-in audio is available (wiring harnesses not included). Push and hold in the master volume control for three seconds to switch from Bluetooth to line-in source. Push in master volume control to switch back to Bluetooth. Use the built-in 150 Hz high pass filter switch on the board to protect your satellite speakers.Specifications: • Power output: 2 x 50W + 1 x 100W @ 4 ohms • Impedance: 4 ohm for satellites and 3-4 ohm for subwoofer • Chip: TPA3116*2 • SNR: 100 dB • Frequency response: 20-20,000 Hz • Signal input: 3.5 mm stereo jack or 3-pin socket • Signal output: 6 screw terminals • Power requirements: 12-24 VDC • Maximum current draw 3A • Quiescent current: 60 mA • Power input: 2.1 mm x 5.5 mm DC jack • Dimensions (not including potentiometer): 3.94" W x 0.9" H x 3.94" D • Potentiometer shaft length: 0.6" and master volume 0.64" without knobs • Bluetooth: V5.0+BR+EDR.


          Would be a very simple way to sort out almost all of the electronics for this. Then you'd need something like a 5 series Lithium-ion battery pack for the power. Actually the TPS3116 will operate from a maximum of 26V so a 6 series Lithium ion pack should be fine. 6 series will charge to a maximum of 25.2V. A 24V lead acid would potentially work but a lot of the time these will float charge to more than 26V.

          ...

          You get the idea though. I like the board above because it has a variable frequency low pass for the subwoofer channel and a high pass for the mains. The high pass is fixed at 150Hz/1st order, but it's better than nothing, and coupled with a sealed box should be decent. The subwoofer low pass is probably 2nd order.
          ....
          Yes, this is actually the very amp that I was thinking of using. I also like the fact that it has the separate line cutoff for the sub.

          Originally posted by 5th element
          ...

          If you can find a ready made 24V lithium ion, 6S, pack, with charger, then that would work well but otherwise DIY lithium packs are not for the electronically uneducated.

          My guess would be that this is actually enough power, especially if you use 4 ohm speakers, unless you want it to get really loud.

          The size of the battery will determine how long this lasts on a charge and also add weight and cost to the device. The battery is likely to be the most expensive individual part of this. The louder you listen the less time the battery will last.

          If this were my mum and dad building this then the amplifier board above would be more than enough and I'd recommend a battery with a real capacity (lots of sellers of these lie about capacity) of around 6000mAh minimum. This would likely mean 12 18650 battery cells. 6 in series with two lots of them in parallel.

          From what I can see 24V ebike battery packs are usually 7 series cells, which is too much for this board.

          ...

          A very easy way to power this would be to use a big 12V lead acid battery with a power inverter to provide 120V AC. You could then use a 24V power adaptor for the amplifier module. The alternative would be to use a 12V>24V boost converter with the big lead acid battery to power the amplifier.

          Something like this...



          So you could do the entire system with a 12V lead acid battery, boost converter and the amplifier board above. Any similar boost converter would work.
          I have also thought about doing everything that you listed here, doing 12V lead acid (cheap, available, easy to find chargers, etc), but I would really like to get to the 24V range so that I can drive it at maximum power. Maybe that's overkill, and probably is, but that would also give me more fuel in the tank, so to speak, so that I could go longer on a charge. I would like to get 12 hours out, if possible.

          I saw this setup, which really looks like it would do the trick. The only thing that I don't like about it, is that it is a self contained unit. I would really like to put this thing inside of the box, and have it completely hidden, but then I couldn't see the battery power, and couldn't use the on/off switch. But this would get me to that 24V voltage. With the available power, and running at 24V, I think that it should make it to 12+ hours, and that would be 12 hours at max amps, which it will never be, so that gives me some headroom too. The specs called out maximum amp draw of 3A, and I'm assuming that's at 12V, so at 24V, it would only be 1.5A. One thought might be to build a "door" on the front that this power supply sits behind, and then when I want to turn it on/off, check battery power, I simply lift that door. I could make that "door" out of smoked lexan as well so that I could see the battery power indicator at a glance. Hummmmm....




          Originally posted by 5th element
          ...
          If this were my mum and dad building this then the amplifier board above would be more than enough and I'd recommend a battery with a real capacity (lots of sellers of these lie about capacity) ...
          I LOVE this statement, because it will probably TOO much for my wimpy wife too, but I'd rather have too much, than not enough!!!

          I also liked your comment, and appreciate the honesty about the building my own Lion cell. While I believe that I could figure that part out, quite frankly, I don't really want to figure that out. I could end up spending as much on a power supply with all of the fiddly bits to get it to work, and I probably wouldn't have that totally figured out until next boating season. I have other things to do than spend the next 3 months researching, and buying components to find a "combination" that works. That piece of advice right there will probably save me a ton of time, because I'm only going to look for turn-key solutions at this point.

          Thanks again for your input and honesty, and candidness!! (sometimes I need to be slapped off the edge of the cliff)
          CADman_ks
          - Stentorian build...
          - Ochocinco build...
          - BT speaker / sub build...

          Comment

          • CADman_ks
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2012
            • 497

            #6
            Did a little bit more planning tonight, and this is what I'm thinking would be a good combo, and works for what I'm after.

            I would use the amp from the above post. Build the top part of the box as a pair of Overnight Sensations, and then put an 8" sub in bottom part. Then between the speaker boxes, I would reserve that area for the electronics, batteries, etc. That would make the front view of the box look something like this:



            These are the components I would propose using:

            Overnight Sensations (that list of parts is readily available, and wouldn't deviate)
            8" sub:
            Dayton Audio SD215A-88 8" DVC SubwooferThe Dayton Audio SD215A-88 8" subwoofer speaker is one of the best bang-for-the-buck low frequency drivers available today. Dayton Audio DVC Series woofers were designed to offer the maximum performance-per-dollar. The speakers feature poly coated paper cones, wide rubber surrounds, large dual 8 ohm voice coils, vented pole pieces, and bumped back plates. Their healthy Xmax, long-throw construction, and dual voice coils make them perfect for any economical yet high-performing subwoofer speaker system. Note: This driver has dual 8 ohm voice coils. The specs listed below were measured with the voice coils wired in parallel for a 4 ohm load.

            Amp w/ BT:
            TPS3116D2 Class D 2.1 Bluetooth 5.0 Amplifier Board 2 x 50W + 100W with Filter and Volume ControlsMake your own 2.1 multimedia wireless Bluetooth amplifier or portable speaker with this 2 x 50W + 100W amplifier board. The board accepts 12 VDC to 24 VDC which makes it perfect for making home or mobile audio projects. Make your audio project truly portable by adding three to five 18650 Li-Ion batteries.These boards are pre-tested and pre-assembled, which makes your project easy to complete. The on-board jacks, potentiometer, and screw terminals let you get this board powered up and playing music in minutes. Just connect your power source using a 2.1 x 5.5 mm DC power plug, a 3.5 mm stereo audio source, and run speaker wire from the six screw terminals to you speakers and you're done. For the most wattage output use 120-055 24 VDC power adapter. If you don't want to use the 3.5 mm jack, an optional 3-pin connector for internal line-in audio is available (wiring harnesses not included). Push and hold in the master volume control for three seconds to switch from Bluetooth to line-in source. Push in master volume control to switch back to Bluetooth. Use the built-in 150 Hz high pass filter switch on the board to protect your satellite speakers.Specifications: • Power output: 2 x 50W + 1 x 100W @ 4 ohms • Impedance: 4 ohm for satellites and 3-4 ohm for subwoofer • Chip: TPA3116*2 • SNR: 100 dB • Frequency response: 20-20,000 Hz • Signal input: 3.5 mm stereo jack or 3-pin socket • Signal output: 6 screw terminals • Power requirements: 12-24 VDC • Maximum current draw 3A • Quiescent current: 60 mA • Power input: 2.1 mm x 5.5 mm DC jack • Dimensions (not including potentiometer): 3.94" W x 0.9" H x 3.94" D • Potentiometer shaft length: 0.6" and master volume 0.64" without knobs • Bluetooth: V5.0+BR+EDR.

            Battery pack and charger:


            I'd make the box out of 1/2" baltic birch. I think that I could easily be into this thing for under $300. The one thing that I would give up if I built this thing myself is an app on the phone to control the box, which all of the commercially available speakers have. I don't know that's a deal breaker, though, but something that I wouldn't get with this...
            Attached Files
            CADman_ks
            - Stentorian build...
            - Ochocinco build...
            - BT speaker / sub build...

            Comment

            • 5th element
              Supreme Being Moderator
              • Sep 2009
              • 1671

              #7
              Lithium ion batteries are great but bothersome in their idiosyncratic behaviour and requirements. I totally hear you on the could but don't want to part. Sometimes all you want is a plug and play module to solve a problem without the associated headache of doing it yourself.

              You can see why power management is such a big sector in electronic equipment. Often the power solution is more complex than the circuit being powered! Especially if low quiescent consumption and transitions through various levels of operation are required for extending battery life.

              The battery you linked is unfortunately not suitable for this application. If you look the 24V is nominal but the voltage on the 24V output varies from 29.4V, at full charge, down to 21V, as the low voltage cut off.

              This is a 7 series battery pack that will fry the poor little TPA3116 chips at full charge and let out the magic smoke.

              One of the reasons I recommended the boost converter idea above was because it will output 24V and keep the voltage at 24V regardless of the input voltage. This will maximize the output power of the amplifiers right across the batteries state of charge. As most boost converters will accept a wide range of input voltage, say 10-18V for a 24V output, it would allow operation from a common 12V lead acid or 4 series connected lithium ion battery packs.
              Last edited by 5th element; 02 December 2020, 17:21 Wednesday.
              What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
              5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
              Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

              Comment

              • 5th element
                Supreme Being Moderator
                • Sep 2009
                • 1671

                #8


                Something like that.
                What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                Comment

                • 5th element
                  Supreme Being Moderator
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 1671

                  #9


                  These also review well. Not that you'd need two but at that price? Hey at least you'd have a spare!
                  What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                  5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                  Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                  Comment

                  • CADman_ks
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 497

                    #10
                    5th,

                    Thanks again for your input! Very valuable!

                    To get this thing started, I think that I'm going to go this route:

                    These batteries in parallel, so that I double the Ah, and still stay at 12V. These are easy to charge with any manner of chargers out there, and since they are lead acid, while heavy, their voltage is consistent. The only downside to this setup is that they are heavy, which makes the overall box weight more:



                    Then, go with a step up board to get to 24V for max power to the amp:



                    Then, go with the configuration that I had above for the speakers, and sub. I might not get the 12 hours out of this setup, but I should be able to get all day, and if I got the right charger, I might be able to run off of the charger if the batteries get too low. I'm figuring that the weight of the entire speaker will be somewhere in 50 pound range. That's about what my cornhole boards weigh, and they are not hard to move around, so that doesn't sound too heavy.

                    Another reason to go this route is that if this thing totally tanks, and doesn't work out, or sounds like crap, I can repurpose all of the components into a set of Overnight Sensations, and a sub. I could use some nice speakers in my shop, so not a total loss. The batteries are drop in replacements for my UPS power supplies, so they don't go to waste either...
                    CADman_ks
                    - Stentorian build...
                    - Ochocinco build...
                    - BT speaker / sub build...

                    Comment

                    • 5th element
                      Supreme Being Moderator
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 1671

                      #11
                      That looks like a good idea, especially the bit about the parts being reusable in other areas if it doesn't pan out.

                      Personally I can't see why it wouldn't pan out but backup plans are always nice.

                      I did have a thought about how you could build this as separate boxes, or some of the boxes separate, but inlay some strong neodymium magnets into them so that they'd snap together and form one solid unit too. Mainly for the overnight sensations on top so you could either leave them in place or detach them and separate them for stereo if the environment suited. Assuming there would be space inside the partition with the electronics to coil up extra wire when not need. Anyway just a thought.

                      If you get lots of sun a solar panel would probably run it if the panel gave out the right voltage span.
                      What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                      5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                      Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                      Comment

                      • CADman_ks
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 497

                        #12
                        Originally posted by 5th element
                        That looks like a good idea, especially the bit about the parts being reusable in other areas if it doesn't pan out.

                        Personally I can't see why it wouldn't pan out but backup plans are always nice.

                        I did have a thought about how you could build this as separate boxes, or some of the boxes separate, but inlay some strong neodymium magnets into them so that they'd snap together and form one solid unit too. Mainly for the overnight sensations on top so you could either leave them in place or detach them and separate them for stereo if the environment suited. Assuming there would be space inside the partition with the electronics to coil up extra wire when not need. Anyway just a thought.

                        If you get lots of sun a solar panel would probably run it if the panel gave out the right voltage span.
                        Hummm... That's a good idea for making them stackable as modules. I wasn't going to build it that way, but that would be super easy to do. I would probably use some of these to hold them together



                        I have a lot of these already on hand, because it's what I use to lock cornhole boards together.

                        I also had thought about the solar idea, and that would be easy to add at some point in the future as well...

                        ;x( Thanks again for your help in getting this all sorted out. I had the basic idea / concept, but I appreciate the help with the understanding of why what I'm thinking may or may not work. Always good to have experts to bounce things off of!!! ;x(
                        CADman_ks
                        - Stentorian build...
                        - Ochocinco build...
                        - BT speaker / sub build...

                        Comment

                        • 5th element
                          Supreme Being Moderator
                          • Sep 2009
                          • 1671

                          #13
                          Those locking things are a really good idea and better than magnets. I think you're going to have fun with this!
                          What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                          5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                          Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                          Comment

                          • CADman_ks
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 497

                            #14
                            Originally posted by 5th element
                            Those locking things are a really good idea and better than magnets. I think you're going to have fun with this!
                            LOL! The ideas are swirling for sure!!
                            CADman_ks
                            - Stentorian build...
                            - Ochocinco build...
                            - BT speaker / sub build...

                            Comment

                            • CADman_ks
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 497

                              #15
                              Starting the build!!!

                              Yes and no...

                              Doing a little bit of testing today, with the amp and up converter that I got yesterday.

                              Everything seems to work, but I think that the Achilles heal of this "system" may be the amp. It doesn't play as loud as the Pioneer amp that I was using to power the exact same speakers, but that was a 100w/channel amp, and this is only 50W, so that's some of it. However, I think that it probably gets loud enough for playing at the lake, and not hacking off our neighbors, so we'll see how it performs when it's all together. It's also a little bit hard to gage the sound "quality" from the amp at this point. One thing that I have noticed is that it doesn't appear that the main amp drives much bass. Most of the bass is being pushed thru the sub channel. Since I don't have a sub to hook up to it, I hooked a speaker up to it, just to get that bass, but the speaker that I have hooked up doesn't go that low, so I'm getting distortion in at times. That's not the amps fault, as much as it is an incapable speaker.

                              So, what I'm trying to test today is how long the batteries last. I have (2) 9Ah batteries in parallel, which should give me 18Ah if the batteries really output that much. I was also able to measure the amp draw out of the batteries, and with just the mains, it is very loud, even at loud volumes, like .6A. When the sub is added, that jumps to about 2ish amps. So, the max draw on the board, is supposed to be 3A, and that appears to be holding true at the moment. According to a battery life calculator, at 2A, I should only get 9 hours out of it. One thing that I did notice when I was reading the amperage output was that the amperage jumps around quite a bit depending on the load the amp is putting out. Loud sections, sections with more bass, less bass, etc. The 2A is not the max, but more of an average, and that average might even be high, so we'll see how long it lasts today...

                              Here's a picture of the cobbled together test platform that I'm running currently:



                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by CADman_ks; 25 November 2021, 10:21 Thursday.
                              CADman_ks
                              - Stentorian build...
                              - Ochocinco build...
                              - BT speaker / sub build...

                              Comment

                              • CADman_ks
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2012
                                • 497

                                #16
                                On a good note about the amp, the BT is still working at 72', and only supposed to be good for 30', which seemed pretty low to be on the first place...
                                CADman_ks
                                - Stentorian build...
                                - Ochocinco build...
                                - BT speaker / sub build...

                                Comment

                                • 5th element
                                  Supreme Being Moderator
                                  • Sep 2009
                                  • 1671

                                  #17
                                  It is very difficult to judge current draw, when an amplifier is playing music, with a DMM. Heck it's very difficult to judge the current draw of an amplifier with any meter when playing music. I usually measure the quiescent draw of the system, ie when it's not playing anything at all, and calculate how long it will run doing that.

                                  The worst music out there has a crest factor, due to compression, of about 6dB. If you were playing this at full volume on an amplifier of 100 watts the average would be around 25 watts.

                                  On 24V you'll get 30 watts of low distortion power out of the TPA3116 when feeding 8 ohms. 60 watts into 4 ohms.

                                  Given the overnight sensations are more in the middle I'd go with 6 ohms and 40 watts.

                                  As far as I am aware most modern music is more like 10dB crest factor or simply 10 to 1. So at full power 40 watts becomes 4 watts. 8 watts for two channels and with a 4 ohm sub a total of 14 watts, average power at max volume. Assuming 90% average amplifier efficiency we're looking at 15.5 watts. Then assuming 90% converter efficiency 17.2 watts.

                                  18 amp hours at 12 V = 216 watt hours.

                                  17.2 watts doesn't include the quiescent draw of the system, but the efficiency curves for the amplifier includes the quiescent draw (its what reduces the amplifier efficiency down to very low levels at minuscule output powers), so we could say 18 watts as a ball park figure.

                                  216/18 = 12 hours.

                                  I'd be surprised if you actually used this at full volume too so I don't think you have much to worry about with regards to battery life.

                                  I'm glad all the electronics works and that range on the bluetooth is certainly a bonus. Non metallic enclosures, around the bluetooth module, will ensure that remains high.
                                  What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                  5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                  Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                  Comment

                                  • CADman_ks
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2012
                                    • 497

                                    #18
                                    I wish that I understood more about electronics. That is some cool stuff right there!! I understand there are amp efficiencies, but have no knowledge of what typical might be, and how to calculate them. However, when laid out in your post, is very easy to understand!

                                    So, I'm sitting currently at 7.5 hours of CONTINUOUS runtime, at a fairly high level of sound. I don't really suspect that we would be listening ALL the time at this level, and I don't think that we will listen for hours upon on end. The current voltage of the batteries is about 12.1, and unfortunately, I didn't check their voltage when I started, so I don't know what kind of drop I'm experiencing there.

                                    The step up converter states that the minimum input voltage is 10. Very rough numbers here on voltage drop, but I'm losing around .15V about every 1.5 hours, at the current voltage, which is still above 12. As the voltage drops on the batteries, I'm assuming that number will also increase pretty rapidly, so I'm guessing that the 12 hours is probably not all that far off. And, as far as design goals, that's right where I wanted to be. Some of the commercial offerings are in the 24 hour range (some even more), and while that's awesome, I think that there are going to be very few situations where I actually even need it to play continuously for 12 hours, let alone more.

                                    I'll set it up again today, and let it continue playing, and see where it ends up!
                                    CADman_ks
                                    - Stentorian build...
                                    - Ochocinco build...
                                    - BT speaker / sub build...

                                    Comment

                                    • tktran
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jan 2005
                                      • 658

                                      #19
                                      Clearly li-po batteries and affordable signal prodcessing and amplication has enabled this.
                                      This is a new product category that is very interesting development.

                                      BT speakers not need to be small or crappy.

                                      JBL Partybox models;

                                      100- 2x5.25 woofers and 2, 2.5cm mid-tweeters
                                      300- 2x6.5” woofers and 3x 2.5cm mid-tweeters
                                      1000- 12” woofer(!) 2x 7” midwoofers and compression driver

                                      I’d like to see a kit that is similar to something like these...

                                      Comment

                                      • CADman_ks
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Jan 2012
                                        • 497

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by tktran
                                        Clearly li-po batteries and affordable signal prodcessing and amplication has enabled this.
                                        This is a new product category that is very interesting development.

                                        BT speakers not need to be small or crappy.

                                        JBL Partybox models;

                                        100- 2x5.25 woofers and 2, 2.5cm mid-tweeters
                                        300- 2x6.5” woofers and 3x 2.5cm mid-tweeters
                                        1000- 12” woofer(!) 2x 7” midwoofers and compression driver

                                        I’d like to see a kit that is similar to something like these...
                                        You're absolutely right on the options out there.

                                        I actually considered buying that 300 model, but at the end of the day, I'll have less in mine. Mine won't be as nice and polished as the JBL, or have as many features, but it should play music. I'm with you, though, I too, would like to see some kits offered like this. PartsExpress has some, but they are limited in size, and are more geared to truly "portable" options. Or should we say, options that you can carry as you walk along the beach. None of these JBL models are intended to be used that way. They weigh too much to be lugged around for any period of time.

                                        I figure that mine is going to weigh in the 50-60 pound range when done, so it's not light either. Could be a little bit lighter, if I were to use lithium batteries, but I'm opting for AGM sealed batteries to start with...
                                        CADman_ks
                                        - Stentorian build...
                                        - Ochocinco build...
                                        - BT speaker / sub build...

                                        Comment

                                        • CADman_ks
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jan 2012
                                          • 497

                                          #21
                                          Now the build is moving!! (FINALLY)...

                                          I didn't realize that I had started this project BEFORE Xmas. Got busy with some other stuff, and haven't had any time in the shop lately, so I finally got the plans completed, finalized, and I cut some wood today. I am going to build it so that the speakers and the sub are all completely different boxes. That way, later on, if I want to use them for something else, they are all easy to separate. That will require a little more wood, and potentially a little more time building, but pays off in the end, if I ever want to split them apart.

                                          First of all, obligatory pile of wood shot. This is all of the pieces to make the system that I'm going to make.



                                          Front baffles of the Overnight Sensations. You don't realize how small these things are until you start actually cutting the pieces!! I did decide to put front ports on the OS's.



                                          Here is the obligatory pic of the drivers installed, first the OS's, and then the sub front.





                                          Everything all cut up, and thrown together on the bench. Should be able to get to assembling boxes tomorrow:

                                          Attached Files
                                          Last edited by CADman_ks; 25 November 2021, 10:29 Thursday.
                                          CADman_ks
                                          - Stentorian build...
                                          - Ochocinco build...
                                          - BT speaker / sub build...

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                                          • CADman_ks
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Jan 2012
                                            • 497

                                            #22
                                            Tool suggestion...

                                            I don't know how others trim out the rabbet on speakers, but I've generally gotten lucky in the past, that I didn't have to have any special router bits. I used the standard 3/8" or 1/2" rabbet and that always worked. Recently, however, I had a project, not a speaker, that I had to cut some rabbets, and I needed them to more precise than increments of an 1/8".

                                            I turned to Amazon, and picked up a set of these. These aren't the cheapest ones on there, and they're not the most expensive either, middle of the road. So far, I've been very happy with the quality of these bits, and for no more often than I have to use them, they will last me a long time, and if they don't, I just get another set, as they are not all that expensive. These work really nice for the rabbets, because if you start with a smaller rabbet, you can change the bearing to the next size up, until you get the fit that you're after:

                                            These are the Amazon links:





                                            Attached Files
                                            CADman_ks
                                            - Stentorian build...
                                            - Ochocinco build...
                                            - BT speaker / sub build...

                                            Comment

                                            • blue934
                                              Member
                                              • Mar 2008
                                              • 91

                                              #23
                                              I use a hole saw for through hole (I've collected quite a few sizes over the yrs) and similar rabbit kits to your links for doing driver rebates. I find it much quicker and simpler than setting up my circle cutter router.
                                              If you start the rabbit with 5 turns of electric tape around the bearing and remove a round at a time, you can adjust the rabbit by thousands of an inch.

                                              Comment

                                              • 5th element
                                                Supreme Being Moderator
                                                • Sep 2009
                                                • 1671

                                                #24
                                                Interesting idea for rebates. I hadn't thought to do them like that.

                                                It's great to see this finally coming together! Obligatory shots with the drivers in place are much appreciated!
                                                What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                                5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                                Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                                Comment

                                                • CADman_ks
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Jan 2012
                                                  • 497

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by 5th element
                                                  Interesting idea for rebates. I hadn't thought to do them like that.

                                                  ...
                                                  I should have explained myself a little bit more on the rabbit bits. The reason that it works so well for me is that I do not have a Jasper jig, or variant. I have a piece of plastic that mounts to the bottom of my router, and then I punch holes in it for different sizes that I need. It works, but it is SLOW SLOW to setup. So, once you've got the main cutout diameter dialed in, this is much quicker to just run around there and put the rebate in.

                                                  However, it is more one or two more tools to do all of the different sizes, so you have to figure that into the cost as well. If you already own a Jasper jig, then there's probably not a real good reason to have these...
                                                  CADman_ks
                                                  - Stentorian build...
                                                  - Ochocinco build...
                                                  - BT speaker / sub build...

                                                  Comment

                                                  • CADman_ks
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Jan 2012
                                                    • 497

                                                    #26
                                                    Finally done...

                                                    I finally got this project done, but it took a couple of twists along the way.

                                                    Here are some pics of the progess...

                                                    Obligatory driver crossover photo:



                                                    Cabinets complete, but not finished:



                                                    Drivers installed, listening inside:



                                                    Listening outside:



                                                    The battery that I ended up using. I didn't get a pic of this, but I had TWO AGM UPS batteries in here to originally, and they were HEAVY! This is a LI-ION battery, and it came with a charger.



                                                    next post...
                                                    Attached Files
                                                    CADman_ks
                                                    - Stentorian build...
                                                    - Ochocinco build...
                                                    - BT speaker / sub build...

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                                                    • CADman_ks
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Jan 2012
                                                      • 497

                                                      #27
                                                      (con't)...

                                                      These were the original covers that I made. I needed something that would prevent you from putting your fingers thru the drivers as I load and unload it in the RV. I made some frames out of baltic birch, cut a rebate, and then cut up a cooling rack, and hotglued it to the rebate. That didn't work as slickly as I had hoped...



                                                      This was the face plate that I made. I had some thin aluminum that I used, which worked well. I cut a decal out of white, and then a black one for the top, and the look was good, but the aluminum didn't work, because there was some sort of interference between the charging port, the plate, and the receiver, and it had a noticeable hum, when the charger was wired in. Fortunately, I had a plug in the charging loop, and I just unplugged it when I wasn't charging.



                                                      Here is a pic of Gen 1 all complete. Didn't look bad, worked well, and we used it almost every time that we went camping. It's a crowd favorite, because it can get loud, and it play quietly around the campfire too, and still sound good. And, as a bonus, the battery easily lasts about 16 hours. So, since we only listen in the evening generally speaking, it would last 4 nights without charging. I was impressed.



                                                      next...
                                                      Attached Files
                                                      Last edited by CADman_ks; 25 November 2021, 10:52 Thursday.
                                                      CADman_ks
                                                      - Stentorian build...
                                                      - Ochocinco build...
                                                      - BT speaker / sub build...

                                                      Comment

                                                      • CADman_ks
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jan 2012
                                                        • 497

                                                        #28
                                                        Final version!!!

                                                        Overall I was happy with the performance of the box, but I absolutely despised the covers.

                                                        Then, over the summer, I got a Snapmaker A350, and it was game one to create some 3D printed grills, and the final version was born!!

                                                        After getting the SM A350, I set out to make grills for the sub, and the mains. A 190 hours of printing later and the grills were done. They don't look super good up close, BUT, they look REALLY good standing back 5', and they look even better when it's dark outside.

                                                        This is the cover for the subs, and the ports:



                                                        This is pic of the mains with the covers installed:



                                                        Made a really nice bracket for holding up the back of the receiver, which also provide a good spot to wire tire wires too:



                                                        And, remember that problem with the humming caused by the aluminum face plate? Super easy to solve with a 3D printer. And, as a bonus, I could give it some depth, so it even looks better! Another nice thing about the charge port being on the face is that in the RV we have an outlet in the cargo hold where I store it, so if it does die one evening, I can plug it overnight and it's fully charged by morning. I don't have to take anything apart.



                                                        And here is the FINAL version all assembled as a unit. All-in-all, it really came out looking nice, and pretty happy with the performance from it. I think if I had it to do over again, I'm not for sure that I would go thru the complexity of making the top boxes removable. Probably still make them as individual boxes, but not removable. It's a cool idea, but we've never had them split apart yet, and I don't know that we ever will. I should try it sometime when we're playing cornhole to see if it sounds any better. In the end, I don't know that it added a lot of complexity to the project either. Probably a coin flip would have been a better determinator.

                                                        Attached Files
                                                        Last edited by CADman_ks; 25 November 2021, 10:48 Thursday.
                                                        CADman_ks
                                                        - Stentorian build...
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