Ardent Speaker Camp

[Hdale85]

Ah those look great! I truly hope I can build these or something similar before too long.

[Bear]

Your mic looks a little off center and low.

He forgot a screw in the tweeter, as well. :E :lol:

[Hdale85]

Well while we're at it. Seems like the tweeter hole is cut rather big leaving a gap :B Might just be the way the picture looks though.

[Carl V]

Well while we're at it. Seems like the tweeter hole is cut rather big leaving a gap :B Might just be the way the picture looks though.

Boy you guys are brutal

very nice looking....I'm looking forward to seeing & hearing these at Thomas'
home.

[Silversmoky]

working away... double checking measurements & crossovers...

Man Jon, those are beautiful! ;x( Great combination of drivers too!

[JonMarsh]

He forgot a screw in the tweeter, as well. :E :lol:

Nah, I was using a different kind of threaded insert, and it didn't get aligned properly- will be retrofitted to the "final choice" one later. All part of the learning curve. Don't have the time right now, in order to get to Denver.

Too many things that could/should be fixed- they're not even complete on veneering, and some parts I'm going to re-do.

But that's part of the learning curve, too. Some day I'll know a little bit about how to do this properly....

[Bear]

Nah, I was using a different kind of threaded insert, and it didn't get aligned properly- will be retrofitted to the "final choice" one later. All part of the learning curve. Don't have the time right now, in order to get to Denver.

Too many things that could/should be fixed- they're not even complete on veneering, and some parts I'm going to re-do.

But that's part of the learning curve, too. Some day I'll know a little bit about how to do this properly....

Somehow I suspect that with this picture you might no longer be on Neil Patel's Christmas Card list...

We are often our own hardest critics!

[JonMarsh]

You didn't email it to him, did you Bill? This was supposed to be a surprise, showing up in their home turf... :W


I don't think these will bother him at all, but then he lives on the East Coast, works from their facility there- probably will never notice.

Now, if ET ever builds the DeathStars, then there might be raised eyebrows and curled lips... :B But as Willie the Shake said, there's many a slip betwixt cup and the lip.

[Face]

Why did you go with the 6620 over the 6600? Lower distortion? The 6600 would have matched aesthetically.

[Bear]

You didn't email it to him, did you Bill? This was supposed to be a surprise, showing up in their home turf... :W

Of course I did! But then, since I'm on a slow connection in a hotel, I had to email it one bit at a time...

I don't think these will bother him at all, but then he lives on the East Coast, works from their facility there- probably will never notice.

Now, if ET ever builds the DeathStars, then there might be raised eyebrows and curled lips... :B But as Willie the Shake said, there's many a slip betwixt cup and the lip.

Make sure that he includes an extra turbo laser near the 2m exhaust port...

[Hdale85]

Hah Jon likes both positive and negative criticism. In all honesty they look fantastic and I could only hope mine would turn out as well.

[Jed]

Why did you go with the 6620 over the 6600? Lower distortion? The 6600 would have matched aesthetically.

They're identical and now a $1 difference in price.

[dlr]

They're identical and now a $1 difference in price.

Are you sure? It always looked to me like the faceplate of the newer ones have a slightly different profile that can make a surprising difference in the measured response. I doubt that it would be audible, but since we obsess with this hobby at times...

I swapped out faceplates between XT25, 6600 and 7100 on the same motor/diaphragm combination and found a lot more difference than I expected. The 6600 had the best response. It looked to me to be a larger, shallow "bowl" shape, rather than a flat front with sudden turn near the dome as in most tweeter faceplates. The photos of the 6620 look to be more like the 7100 than the 6600, but it's hard to tell from the photos.

Dave

[Face]

Scroll down to the bottom of this post. They're very close, but not identical.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=453708&postcount=1

[Hdale85]

For some reason I was thinking you were going to use the R3004 instead of the D3004. They still look great though.

I've been sort of slowly collecting parts for my DIY CNC router. I'm wondering if I can put the entire cabinet in it and machine the facets.... I'm thinking it may be possible.

[ColoradoTom]

Why did you go with the 6620 over the 6600? Lower distortion? The 6600 would have matched aesthetically.

Looks lke the 6620 has a black option as well as the silver that Jon used.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=8521

Tom

[dlr]

Scroll down to the bottom of this post. They're very close, but not identical.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpo...08&postcount=1

The differences I see there are similar to the ones I measured between 7100 and 6600. The dome is more exposed in the 6600. I've found this to generally result in a more linear response. Those measurements tend to support that.

There does appear to be a difference from 8K up, so it may be possible that there's a slight audible effect, but since that's more apparent on-axis than off, it probably really doesn't matter in the end. But I obsess with that sort of issue.

Dave

[Bear]

The differences I see there are similar to the ones I measured between 7100 and 6600. The dome is more exposed in the 6600. I've found this to generally result in a more linear response. Those measurements tend to support that.

There does appear to be a difference from 8K up, so it may be possible that there's a slight audible effect, but since that's more apparent on-axis than off, it probably really doesn't matter in the end. But I obsess with that sort of issue.

Dave

There are some minor differences in the distortion products, but they are clearly "really close". Whether you would be able to distinguish the distributions if you measured 20 of each is a relatively simple question to answer for about $10k. Barring that, I'll take Jon and Jed's word for it that they are basically swappable.

[JonMarsh]

Looks lke the 6620 has a black option as well as the silver that Jon used.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=8521

Tom

When I bought them, I didn't have a project in mind. Once I had the project solidly in mind, I was too cheap to buy a second pair to "get the color right".

I mean, even I'm not THAT OCD.... am I? :W

Up since three this morning packing and loading.... this is vacation? I wouldn't work like this if I could avoid it!! Fortunately, it all seems to fit... the luck of small children and eccentric speaker builders!

One thing to count my blessings over- thinking back, at the shear physicality of this construction project and loading them into the Element by myself- I couldn't have done this 2, 4, 6, or even 8 years ago. (back problems, knee problems, and level of conditioning). Who says we can't get better with age, if we manage things right and take charge of our destiny?

Anyway, just gotta do a couple of expense reports for work, then hit the road.

[CraigJ]

if we manage things right and take charge of our destiny?
Anyway, just gotta do a couple of expense reports for work, then hit the road.

Drive safely on your 1269 mile journey.

[ThomasW]

Drive safely on your 1269 mile journey.

Just spoke with him to make sure he's taking I-80 instead of I-70 through the Colo mountains.

The National Weather Service just posted a winter weather advisory starting 6PM tonight until 6PM tomorrow. Wind gusts up to 60mph with 6"-8" of snow at higher elevations.... 8O

Looks to be just rain with temps in the 50's for front range.

[savage25xtreme]

who's idea was it to have RMAF when i cant ride my motorcycle to attend? it hasn't even got below 60 here yet!

[JonW]

Your mic looks a little off center and low.

He forgot a screw in the tweeter, as well. :E :lol:

Well while we're at it. Seems like the tweeter hole is cut rather big leaving a gap

Man, what a rough crowd! I was next expecting to see someone criticizing the fact that only one speaker is shown. And that you’re stereo imaging will suffer. :P :W

Safe travels, Jon. And have tons o' fun with the whole gang. :T

[---k---]

Man, what a rough crowd! I was next expecting to see someone criticizing the fact that only one speaker is shown. And that you’re stereo imaging will suffer. :P :W

Safe travels, Jon. And have tons o' fun with the whole gang. :T

AND no pictures with feet in them.

The mic joke was just gentle ribbing. I fully expected to be corrected with a statement about it being an off-axis measurement and perspective distortion.

[Johnloudb]

Just spoke with him to make sure he's taking I-80 instead of I-70 through the Colo mountains.

The National Weather Service just posted a winter weather advisory starting 6PM tonight until 6PM tomorrow. Wind gusts up to 60mph with 6"-8" of snow at higher elevations.... 8O

Looks to be just rain with temps in the 50's for front range.

It's been raining today up here in Salt Lake City, just snowed a bit. It's clearing up now and will be clear tomorrow though.

Jon, I live right next I-80!!! Just take the I-215 exit just before for going up Parley's Canyon and exit on 33rd South. It's like a 3 minute detour. We could set up those beauties for a listen. Well, you're certainly welcome to drop by for a drink and a break when you come by here. You've probably already left ... but if not you're welcome to PM me and I'll give you the address.

[Hdale85]

I imagine he's going to be quite busy finishing the Ardents lol.

[Carl V]

Just spoke with him to make sure he's taking I-80 instead of I-70 through the Colo mountains.



The National Weather Service just posted a winter weather advisory starting 6PM tonight until 6PM tomorrow. Wind gusts up to 60mph with 6"-8" of snow at higher elevations.... 8O

Looks to be just rain with temps in the 50's for front range.

Hrmph! Highway 50 all the way (the most lonely highway) that's a
a realman's route thru the mountains & across the plains

[ColoradoTom]

When I bought them, I didn't have a project in mind. Once I had the project solidly in mind, I was too cheap to buy a second pair to "get the color right".

I mean, even I'm not THAT OCD.... am I? :W

Ummm... not sure I should answer that question, but ET would probably petition for the all black version regardless of cost!

Good luck on the trip. I have the bottles of wine here on my office desk ready to bring over to you and ThomasW... haven't set a time to come over yet, but since I'm pretty much my own boss I can be pretty flexable.

Tom

[chasw98]

Well, I am in Aspen right now and just got back from Moab, Utah via I 70 and all was well. This morning it was raining at 9,000 feet with high winds. But the fall colors are beautiful! I went over Loveland Pass 4 days ago and the winds were so high that we had to get back in the car for fear of being knocked down.

[Hdale85]

Yeah the winds out west aren't fun hah. Aspen is beautiful though.

[Jed]

Scroll down to the bottom of this post. They're very close, but not identical.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpo...08&postcount=1

Alright... I'll elaborate. The differences that are observable between the 6600 and 6620 are very small and a crossover designed for the 6600 will work for the 6620 and vice versa. There is no advantage in using the 6620 over a 6600 IMO. The only thing that might be audible is the 10k plus region (only slightly different because of the faceplate shape), and most people on this board probably wouldn't notice unless you're under 20 years of age with exceptional hearing. I've used both tweeters in various designs as well. In my tests the 6600 was a tiny bit better in overalll HD and linear distortion (if I had to pick), but the differences were so small it could be well within production tolerances. As an aside I believe the Accuton mids with the Air Circ is a match in heaven (from my experiences with a similar combo and crossover topology-- I'm happy with 6600 or 6620 for LR2/Duelund).

Jed

[ThomasW]

I went over Loveland Pass 4 days ago and the winds were so high that we had to get back in the car for fear of being knocked down.

Flat-landers..... :roll:

No guts, no glory.... :B

[chasw98]

Flat-landers..... :roll:

No guts, no glory.... :B

Yeah, well this afternoon we took a tour of the Reudi resevoir 5 megawatt hydroelectric power station. We were allowed to walk out on the dam and the winds were clocked at 70 mph at 10,000 foot altitude!

[JonMarsh]

Staying alive, back on the road shortly- a long day ahead!

[JonMarsh]

Ummm... not sure I should answer that question, but ET would probably petition for the all black version regardless of cost!

Good luck on the trip. I have the bottles of wine here on my office desk ready to bring over to you and ThomasW... haven't set a time to come over yet, but since I'm pretty much my own boss I can be pretty flexable.

Tom

Cool- looking forward to seeing you again soon, Tom.

[JonW]

Scroll down to the bottom of this post. They're very close, but not identical.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpo...08&postcount=1

Alright... I'll elaborate. The differences that are observable between the 6600 and 6620 are very small and a crossover designed for the 6600 will work for the 6620 and vice versa. There is no advantage in using the 6620 over a 6600 IMO. The only thing that might be audible is the 10k plus region (only slightly different because of the faceplate shape), and most people on this board probably wouldn't notice unless you're under 20 years of age with exceptional hearing. I've used both tweeters in various designs as well. In my tests the 6600 was a tiny bit better in overalll HD and linear distortion (if I had to pick), but the differences were so small it could be well within production tolerances. As an aside I believe the Accuton mids with the Air Circ is a match in heaven (from my experiences with a similar combo and crossover topology-- I'm happy with 6600 or 6620 for LR2/Duelund).

Jed

I agree with Jed here. At least as far as I can tell from looking at the plots Jon posted. The way I read it the 6600 has a tiny bit lower distortion in the 1,000-5,000 Hz range. At 5,000-9,000 the 6620 could be a little lower. Then at 10,000 and above it’s about the same. Frequency responses are about the same for both.

BUT: It looks like Jon tested the 6620 at 90 db and the 6600 at 92 db. Which means that the 6600 looks even better, relative to the 6620. So I’d go with the 6600.

Jed's posted data also make the 6600 look a little lower in the distortion department than the 6620. Although his plots and axis labels are pretty small and my old eyes are having a little trouble seeing them well.

Sure, all of this is splitting hairs. The two tweeters look to perform very, very close to each other. But when picking a driver for a given project, I like to delve into such minutia. That way I know that I’ve chosen the best available drivers for a give purpose.

Besides, I think that Evil Twin might prefer the 6600 because it *only* comes in black.

[Hdale85]

Is 4" of cutting depth enough to cut the facets in the Ardents? This of course if I can't do it with the CNC

[Dave Bullet]

Besides, I think that Evil Twin might prefer the 6600 because it *only* comes in black.

I've heard plain old black won't do for ET anymore since everyone likes it... he's working on a darker colour...

[Curly Woods]

I've heard plain old black won't do for ET anymore since everyone likes it... he's working on a darker colour...

"Galactic Black"

[savage25xtreme]

Is 4" of cutting depth enough to cut the facets in the Ardents? This of course if I can't do it with the CNC

Jon did it with his frankensaw which has 3-5/8 cutting depth.... IIRC

[Hdale85]

Ok thanks.

[Bear]

Jon did it with his frankensaw which has 3-5/8 cutting depth.... IIRC

You just may have to do it like ogres -- in layers. :rofl: :B

[Evil Twin]

"Galactic Black"

Obviously there has been another penetration of our security. I must have a little chat with Captain Needa again....


It is actually a bit more than a "color" or paint; it can be tuned to actively absorb all incident EM or vibrational radiation in tunable bands; applied to significant room areas, the tuning capability permits fine adjustment of room acoustics as well as achieving a suitable background color for deep meditation.

[Curly Woods]

Obviously there has been another penetration of our security. I must have a little chat with Captain Needa again....


It is actually a bit more than a "color" or paint; it can be tuned to actively absorb all incident EM or vibrational radiation in tunable bands; applied to significant room areas, the tuning capability permits fine adjustment of room acoustics as well as achieving a suitable background color for deep meditation.

Carry on oh Dark Lord of Spectral Bliss ;x(

[savage25xtreme]

Jon did it with his frankensaw which has 3-5/8 cutting depth.... IIRC

Although I have never heard what it takes to cut these facets... maybe 3-1/8 is enough? I wonder if ET remembers how much blade was exposed during his force push Ardent cuts. I would expect in the pending completion webpage on the Ardents the topic will be discussed further.