Finalists - A gift build.

[Supernova]

Hello all.

I am getting ready to build a pair of Finalists for my father-in-law, Steve, as a 50th Birthday gift. His birthday is in August, but with kids and all it's hard to find the time and I'm currently prepping a space to build. He's a huge music fan, but has never owned a proper set of speakers. Normally I veneer my speakers because I love the look of real wood, but in this instance I am planning on going black since his house is themed with black and white (mother-in-law loves zebra print ops. I will have questions on some upcoming issues that are already bouncing around in my head.

One of my first questions is whether there's any benefit in going with the transmission line?

[TEK]

Hi
That sounds like a great gift. I assume you are talking about these finalists?

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Finalists_1.html

If you have the room for it the transmission line will give you more bass response. However, if you are looking for a floor standing speaker I'm not to sure if the best approach is to start out with one that is designed to not be?

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Guys,

Just a heads up that Curt and Meniscus got together and updated the Finalist design with a Morel tweeter since the RS28F is NLA. I've had a sneak peek at the replacement RS28F and it would have required a crossover change to make it work. AFAIK, the updated design is only available through Meniscus as part of their kit.

BTW, Curt told me it sounded better with the Morel vs the RS28F. I'm looking forward to hearing them one of these days. It should be a really nice sounding speaker!

HTH

Jim

[Supernova]

Hi
That sounds like a great gift. I assume you are talking about these finalists?

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Finalists_1.html

If you have the room for it the transmission line will give you more bass response. However, if you are looking for a floor standing speaker I'm not to sure if the best approach is to start out with one that is designed to not be?

Those are the one's! I figured the larger size would negate a stand since they're not really bookshelf size and it doesn't increase the width or depth.

Hi Guys,

Just a heads up that Curt and Meniscus got together and updated the Finalist design with a Morel tweeter since the RS28F is NLA. I've had a sneak peek at the replacement RS28F and it would have required a crossover change to make it work. AFAIK, the updated design is only available through Meniscus as part of their kit.

BTW, Curt told me it sounded better with the Morel vs the RS28F. I'm looking forward to hearing them one of these days. It should be a really nice sounding speaker!

HTH

Jim

I actually bought the kit over a year ago before I moved to New Zealand. I bought that kit and the Statement II's. I built a pair of Statements for a friend in Mountain View, so this is my second go around. When I built the Statements for my friend my wife suggested I build a pair for myself. Translation: I want pair of those honey.

[BobEllis]

I've built a couple of TL speakers. One tapered, one a ML-TL. Both provided excellent bass for the driver size - just watch excursion at the bottom end when trying to get loud. See http://www.quarter-wave.com/Back_Doo...ad_Models.html

Because of excursion issues I moved to sealed and a sub - a pair of 7" drivers reaching into the low 30s can't be pushed hard. You can also extend the cabinet to create a floor stander with a second chamber under the active chamber. Just be sure to dampen the walls or fill with sand. The latter option will keep the bottom chamber from ringing and also lends some stability.

Looking forward to watching your build progress.

[Supernova]

I've built a couple of TL speakers. One tapered, one a ML-TL. Both provided excellent bass for the driver size - just watch excursion at the bottom end when trying to get loud. See http://www.quarter-wave.com/Back_Doo...ad_Models.html

Because of excursion issues I moved to sealed and a sub - a pair of 7" drivers reaching into the low 30s can't be pushed hard. You can also extend the cabinet to create a floor stander with a second chamber under the active chamber. Just be sure to dampen the walls or fill with sand. The latter option will keep the bottom chamber from ringing and also lends some stability.

Looking forward to watching your build progress.

Thanks for the advice and good suggestion on the stand. I may just hold off on the TL and if he wants more bass I have a couple dual opposed MWF-15's gathering dust in my garage.

[Supernova]

Ok.. So I bought my first load of MDF. The panels here are 18mm and 12mm so not quite 3/4" and 1/2". They didn't have any 12mm in stock and was wondering, @Jim Holtz, if using 2 pieces of 18mm on the front baffle will be a problem for the mid tunnel? If it is, it shouldn't be too much trouble finding another source.

[Jim Holtz]

Ok.. So I bought my first load of MDF. The panels here are 18mm and 12mm so not quite 3/4" and 1/2". They didn't have any 12mm in stock and was wondering, @Jim Holtz, if using 2 pieces of 18mm on the front baffle will be a problem for the mid tunnel? If it is, it shouldn't be too much trouble finding another source.

Using 18 mm instead of 12 mm should be fine for the outer front baffle. The cabinet will just be a few mm deeper than the original design but as long as it's on the front of the cabinet, it shouldn't hurt a thing. All the rest of the dimensions will stay the same.

HTH

Jim

[Supernova]

Using 18 mm instead of 12 mm should be fine for the outer front baffle. The cabinet will just be a few mm deeper than the original design but as long as it's on the front of the cabinet, it shouldn't hurt a thing. All the rest of the dimensions will stay the same.

HTH

Jim

Thanks Jim!

I'm doing a fairly strait-forward design and plan to use a 1/4" roundover on all the edges and then paint it with automotive paint.

Actual work shall begin soon.

[Supernova]

The Cuts

Cuts have been made.

[Supernova]

Front Baffles

Front outer baffles routed and clamping the inner baffle. My 4 1/2 year old boy like doing the clamps and he got them surprisingly tight or I'm just getting really weak in my old age.

[Supernova]

Oh no........

So I ran into my first problem and it's a head scratcher. I am in the process of cutting the rear tunnel of the Finalists and then it popped into my head that the tubes they sent didn't look like they were 6". Unfortunately they're not 6" x 13", they're 3 1/2" x 9". I already cutout the 7" recess for one of the tunnels, but I haven't yet cutout the 6" hole. I've emailed Meniscus, but the thought of them sending 2 pvc tubes to New Zealand would be expensive and would take a lot of time. My father-in-laws birthday is in the beginning of August so I need to come up with something fairly quickly.

Note! This was my error and not meniscus.

So my next mission is to search for something similar in size. I did find one pipe at Bunnings, but it's special order and $415.8O https://www.bunnings.co.nz/marley-st...pipe_p00612406 It's also slightly smaller in inside diameter. I will venture out tomorrow to some specialized plumbing stores and can hopefully find a suitable replacement. I suppose the other option would be to build square tunnels out of MDF similar to the Statements and scrap the rear panel on the one unit I've already recessed, but that means buying another sheet of mdf.:cry: Not the end of the world, but more complicated.

Any other suggestions or thoughts?

[Seattle]

I can't remember whether it was finalists or anthologies but I remember someone building a statements like wooden tunnel in place of the pipe.

[roadrune]

A 6" pipe is not always 6", in plumbing it will be 160mm outside (european standard) and a metal pipe (which you can use, but might have to glue bitumen on the outside) is 168,3mm outside. Inside diameter depends on the rating (schedule) of the pipe.

Good luck.

[Jim Holtz]

So I ran into my first problem and it's a head scratcher. I am in the process of cutting the rear tunnel of the Finalists and then it popped into my head that the tubes they sent didn't look like they were 6". Unfortunately they're not 6" x 13", they're 3 1/2" x 9". I already cutout the 7" recess for one of the tunnels, but I haven't yet cutout the 6" hole. I've emailed Meniscus, but the thought of them sending 2 pvc tubes to New Zealand would be expensive and would take a lot of time. My father-in-laws birthday is in the beginning of August so I need to come up with something fairly quickly.

So my next mission is to search for something similar in size. I did find one pipe at Bunnings, but it's special order and $415.8O https://www.bunnings.co.nz/marley-st...pipe_p00612406 It's also slightly smaller in inside diameter. I will venture out tomorrow to some specialized plumbing stores and can hopefully find a suitable replacement. I suppose the other option would be to build square tunnels out of MDF similar to the Statements and scrap the rear panel on the one unit I've already recessed, but that means buying another sheet of mdf.:cry: Not the end of the world, but more complicated.

Any other suggestions or thoughts?

6" PVC is commonly available at home stores here in the states at affordable prices. $415 is crazy expensive!

There's nothing wrong with creating a 6" x 6" ID tunnel out of MDF instead of using PVC if you can't source it locally. Also, it doesn't have to be precisely 6" ID, close would be just fine.

Sorry about the problem!

Jim

[Mandroid]

You might look for concrete forms, they can be found with 6 inch nominal diameter.

[Supernova]

Thanks for the all responses.

I've done the mdf tunnels for the Statements and Statement center I built for a friend in Mountain View California and will go that route if the specialized plumbing place doesn't workout. The $414 is due to having to order the entire pipe, which is 6 meters long.



I'll keep y'all posted.

[Supernova]

6" PVC is commonly available at home stores here in the states at affordable prices. $415 is crazy expensive!

There's nothing wrong with creating a 6" x 6" ID tunnel out of MDF instead of using PVC if you can't source it locally. Also, it doesn't have to be precisely 6" ID, close would be just fine.

Sorry about the problem!

Jim

So a few millimeters either way would be fine? What would be the max variance?

Peter

[Jim Holtz]

So a few millimeters either way would be fine? What would be the max variance?

Peter

Anything 5" - 6 1/2" would be fine. Simply adjust the foam if needed. The NE drivers have a neo magnet which makes them very flexible.

Jim

[Supernova]

Thanks Jim. :thanku:

[Supernova]

Apologoy & Rut Ro

Well I need to apologize to Meniscus. Apparently I didn't order the full kit and therefore I didn't get the mid tunnels. So I apologize for that, my mistake, again. I also realized I didn't order the port tubes for my Statement II's that are on deck and only have the PVC ports. Whoops.. Note to self: Pay more attention.

I did find some PVC that's 150mm in diameter and it was $27 for 1 meter which isn't too bad.

Now for my Rut-Ro moment. While doing the backs I realized I made a measurement error and I included the top panel in my measurement, which I should have subtracted. That left my cutouts 3/4" lower than they should be. :cry: I thought about going out and buying some new MDF, but the frugalness in me thought I'd try a cheaper solution and see if it works. I ended up cutting some scrap 3/4" and used my biscuit jointer with size 10 biscuits to add to the bottom of the rear panel. Everything looked good when gluing them up yesterday, so hopefully I can make it completely seamless.

The way they came together with biscuits makes me ponder the idea of putting other panels together in that way. I'm always fighting the slip when gluing panels and is one reason you will see some screws in some of my photo's. I use pilot holes and then screws to keep panels from slipping while clamping them down. I then reverse them out and tighten the clamps all the way and if they're not obstructing anything I screw them back in.

The other head scratcher for me was figuring out the 7" x 1/2" recess for the rear mid tunnels doesn't really play nicely with Menisuc's new port tubes. Their new tube is one piece, which is nice but 3.75" diameter vs 2 13/16. If I put the port in it's original spot the new larger port cuts into the 7" cutout, so I bumped it up just over an 1/8" to avoid that, but now it's sitting very close to the top of the back panel.

Photo's below. I did my best to cut the tubes on my miter saw. A lot of turn; cut, turn; cut. If I attempted by hand it would be have been even uglier. The picture with the panels and tube is just test fitting. These speakers are going to be deep. 8O

[Supernova]

Progress report

I've made some more progress. The window braces, mid tunnel and all cutouts are done. I did a dry fit last night and realized I had cut top/bottom and side panels 3/4" too long. Must have included the thickness in my cut by accident. Thankfully it wasn't the other direction.


Template guide.


Window braces.


Dry fit without flash.



Dry fit with flash. I need better lighting.


Rear view. I'm not sure what you plug the port with and probably need to go back and read that part again.


Front view. I still need to make that notch for the tweeters.



On a side note: My neighbor has a heard of sheep and I just watched one give birth to two baby lamb while on my computer this morning. Amazing how they pop right up and ready to feed, like nothing happened.

[Supernova]

Primer for MDF

Any recommendations for filling in small seems and priming of MDF for paint? I am considering having these professionally painted through friend of a friend that does car paint.

Cheers

Peter

[Jim Holtz]

Any recommendations for filling in small seems and priming of MDF for paint? I am considering having these professionally painted through friend of a friend that does car paint.

Cheers

Peter

Hi Peter,

Bondo works well for seams but is still susceptible to expansion and shrinkage with humidity in the air as the seasons change. I usually add an 1/8" piece of MDF on the seams sides/ends to cover the end butts which leaves only a very small seam that is easy to fill.

I'd suggest misting a coat of dark colored primer on the speaker and then block sand the flat surfaces with 400 to make sure they're flat, Repeat as necessary.

Have your friend shoot them with sealer and then proceed with a normal car paint job.

Yes it is a lot of work and more expensive than veneer.

HTH

Jim

[Supernova]

Lots of updates

Ok... Took me a while to get these, but I had a snafu and had to switch from my iMac to my Linux Mint box.

I decided to use biscuit joints for my panels. I had very little experience using my DeWalt biscuit jointer, but it seemed simple enough.


Glue-up wen well. Port tube was snug. I used silicone in the port tube cutouts, but fear I should have used something with a bit more grip.


First fully assembled box.



Glue-up of the second box. I did this one in a single shot and I don't think I'll do it that way again. I've seen it done and thought I'd give it a go, but it just gets a bit out of hand.


Front baffle gap. Not huge, but big enough.



Filled the gap with some NZ style bondo that's used for indoor wood working. The stuff dried incredibly fast, so didn't have much time to work with it.



Here the boys together at last.


a bit closer.

[Supernova]

More photo's.



You can see here I added the tweeter notch.




I spent lots of time sanding these and making sure the transitions between panels felt as smooth as the panels themselves. In some of the area's I used bondo they just never felt right. After the sanding I primed them, which was a mistake.

When I got in-touch with the painter he asked me to remove all the primer I had applied. I felt like :toilet: So I went out and got some 80 grit sandpaper and removed all the primer. Having the primer on actually helped me identify some bad spots which I patched. Apparently some of those cheap Harbor Freight clamps I bought left little indentation marks. Those were filled and then I did a 200 sanding and a 400 sanding. Because I had primed the round overs they were getting ugly from sanding so I redid them with a slightly larger bit. There's not picture, but I think they look a bit better.

The cabinets are now in hands of the painter and he primed them last Friday. They are supposed to be ready by Friday at the latest. My father-in-laws birthday get together is this Saturday and we're hosting.

Up next I'll be posting the crossovers before soldering. I always like a dry check before I commit. I also have a few questions about hooking them up.

Peter

[Jim Holtz]

They look great Peter! :T

Jim

[Supernova]

Ok.. I've got the speakers back from the painter and the crossovers soldered.

@Jim Holtz - Am I right in that I have the switch wired with one side going to 2.2 resister to the tweeter and mid? The other side of the switch the positive just bypasses? I'm asking because I found the diagram a bit confusing. It looked like in one diagram the positive bypasses altogether.

[Jim Holtz]

Ok.. I've got the speakers back from the painter and the crossovers soldered.

@Jim Holtz - Am I right in that I have the switch wired with one side going to 2.2 resister to the tweeter and mid? The other side of the switch the positive just bypasses? I'm asking because I found the diagram a bit confusing. It looked like in one diagram the positive bypasses altogether.

You are exactly correct. The switch simply bypasses the resistor. If the speaker won't have the mids closed and be shoved close to a wall. forget about the switch. The switch is a simple on/off to balance the mids/tweeter to the bass to offset reinforced bass gain from close wall mounting and provide the most flexible mounting options.

I hope that makes sense.

Jim

[Supernova]

Mission Accomplished!!!

Thanks Jim and everyone for you help, very much appreciated.

Well I was able to get the speakers wired and working with only a couple hours before his birthday party. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get any pictures before he ran home with them. I plan to go over to his house this week and get some pictures of the finished product.

Crossovers.




Steve and my son unwrapping the speakers.





Overall this was a fun build and challenging. I had a few hiccups but in the end I think they turned out really good or at least I am happy with how they turned out. I will definitely get some more pictures.

My father-in-law, who's only 3 years my senior, was really happy (he's a step-father and he married 10 years older and I married 8 years younger - he loves it when I call him daddy, not at all. :rofl. He's now is trying to find an amp or receiver to run them as his is old and a bit under powered at 60Watts per channel, so if you have any suggestions on something on a tight budget, let me know.

Up Next: Statement II's, per wifey's request.

[Jim Holtz]

They look great!

Tell him to check out Marantz. It's the only reasonably priced receiver I can recommend. 100 watts or more per channel at 8 ohms.

Jim

[Hdale85]

If he's just looking for music playback and doesn't need all the home theater stuff in a receiver, I'd just look for an Integrated Amp of some sort, you can go older or newer at this point. If he's playing digital could get a decent DAC to go with it, but you can just get a nice CDP that has analog outputs. A TT with a nice phono-pre can likely hook right up.

[Supernova]

Thanks @Hdale85.

He plans on using it as a dedicated 2 channel system. Unfortunately there's a medical situation and the money he was going to use to buy the equipment has to go to that.

I contacted Adcom last night about converting my GFA-7707 to 240 and they promptly sent me instructions. I was shocked how quickly they responded. They included a service manual and photo's. Some fuse switching and soldering and I shall have it converted.

I'll let him use the 7707 with my Schiit Jotunheim until he has the funds to buy an integrated amp or receiver. Be nice if I could figure out how to shutdown the unused channels.