A (late) Statements Build.

[AdelaaR]

That would be very kind. ^^
I found a nice one with an inner diameter of 83mm being 3.3"
It has flares on both sides and is adjustable in length with a max of 263mm being 10.4"
Is it possible or even beneficial to mount the port in the front?
I ask this because my room will be reflection-free and I want to actually hear the bass
I would mount it close to the bottom of the cabinet in that case.

[Curt C]

What is the flare radius?

How is it adjustable? Does one half of the tube slide inside the other? If so we'll need the inner diameter of both halves...

The port output is omnidirectional at the frequencies in its pass band. The bass will be no more audible with front mounting. Generally, I consider it beneficial to mount the port on the back or bottom. I'm not a big fan of front ports as the extraneous noise off of the back of the woofer cones find their way out and potentially color the sound of the bass and lower midrange. -Of course these are your speakers, and you get to build them however you want. Front ports won't kill the design, should you choose to go that way.

C

[AdelaaR]

Those sliding things don't seem very professional to me ... I believe a grand speaker like the statements deserves better

It's a design in multiple pieces en can be cut to length.
It's called: MBR-80M
Inside diameter: 83mm
Outside diameter 89mm
Max length: 263mm
Flange outer diameter: 124mm
The length of the flanges isn't mentioned but it looks to be about 20mm
The width is consistent over the length.

[Curt C]

I agree.
Although there is nothing inherently wrong with the sliders, there will be some relatively insignificant issues resulting from the abrupt change in diameter at the transition.

I’d suggest for an 83 mm diameter, and 124 mm flares, I’d cut the tube to about 14 cm, or about 1.5” longer than the 4” length shown on the drawing for the 3” port. A small variation in length will make only a microscopic difference in port tuning, so close will definitely be good enough in this instance.

C

[AdelaaR]

Thanks for helping me with this man.
So by "cut the tube to about 14cm" you mean the length of the tube without the flares, right?
That would be a nice length because I probably won't have to cut then but can simply leave out a piece of the tube ... I hear the Tao talking to me right now

[Curt C]

Right! 14 cm w/o the flares. I'm presuming the flare radius and length are proportional to the 3" ones we have access to here...

C

[GOWA]

Curt,
I would reccomend no more information with a box of chocolates in return. LOL!

[AdelaaR]

I was already contemplating all kinds of rewards because Curt is indeed being far too kind here but it'll have to wait untill the project has been completed

[AdelaaR]

I've got a question again ...
The statements are made from MDF.
There is a variant called HDF that is denser and stronger than the normal MDF though.
Is it sensible to use HDF for the statements and would they gain strength or is the added cost not worth it?

[Jim Holtz]

I've got a question again ...
The statements are made from MDF.
There is a variant called HDF that is denser and stronger than the normal MDF though.
Is it sensible to use HDF for the statements and would they gain strength or is the added cost not worth it?

I guess it would depend on how much more money it costs. If it's not too much, I'd give it a try and see. Stiffer is ALWAYS better.

Jim

[AdelaaR]

I got my drivers in the mail yesterday
I don't have all of the crossover parts yet and no MDF either, but I couldn't hold myself so I found an old piece of MDF and mounted some drivers in it.
Obviously it didn't sound too well ... but I got to hear them at least.

Image not available

I know it doesn't look good either ... it was made without any measurement and in half an hour

[mischmat]

Hah, open baffle statements!! hrm...

[AdelaaR]

Did a little impression of what my statements could look like:

Image not available

I have some nice hardwood here that is 25cm in width so I thought about using that and compensating the total width of the baffle by adding an MDF rounded "frame" to the front plate.

Still contemplating ... what do you think of it?

[AdelaaR]

A few more questions:
Is the thickness of the front plate of importance?
I ask this because I plan on using hardwood I have lying around here but it is thicker than the plans of the statements state.
I just received my bassports and resistors in the mail today ... the resistors seem to be square and of the ceramic type ... I hope and assume this shouldn't be a problem, right?

[sawdust]

I got my drivers in the mail yesterday
I don't have all of the crossover parts yet and no MDF either, but I couldn't hold myself so I found an old piece of MDF and mounted some drivers in it.
Obviously it didn't sound too well ... but I got to hear them at least.

Image not available

I know it doesn't look good either ... it was made without any measurement and in half an hour

AdelaaR,

Is that a Sansui AU-9900/TU-9900 combo you have in that picture? My brother owned that combo. I have the late 70's AU-717/TU-717 combo. Really good stuff and still worth some money! :T

Good luck with your Statements. Here's mine:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34975&highlight

[AdelaaR]

That is indeed a Sansui AU-9900/TU-9900 combo!
There's a story that comes with them also ... if you care to hear it.

I work as a freelance internet and digital TV installman for Belgium's telephone company and one day I was installing internet for this old lady in this nice house ... in her attic, next to her computer, was standing this beautifull stereo set.
I had never seen such a beautifull set and it was in pristine condition ... so I complemented her on it and said: "nice vintage set you got there".
She answered straight away: "you want? It's my late husband's and it's been standing there doing nothing for 20 years ... it's too heavy for me to move and if you take it all you can have it".
The set had the AU-9900 and TU-9900 and also the SR-929 turntable.
I thought I had scored there and was pretty happy but it wasn't till later at home when I looked this thing up on the internet that I realised she gave me a gift of more than $1000
There were also some vintage Sansui SP-1200 speakers included and all of it was as new.

This gift actually got me to wanting new speakers to match the quality of the amplifier and so I ended up here building the statements

[AdelaaR]

I know your statement build btw, sawdust.
It's gorgeous and I actually used a portion of one of your images to make my impression of what my statements could look like a few posts ago ... I hope you don't mind

[sawdust]

That is indeed a Sansui AU-9900/TU-9900 combo!
There's a story that comes with them also ... if you care to hear it.

I work as a freelance internet and digital TV installman for Belgium's telephone company and one day I was installing internet for this old lady in this nice house ... in her attic, next to her computer, was standing this beautifull stereo set.
I had never seen such a beautifull set and it was in pristine condition ... so I complemented her on it and said: "nice vintage set you got there".
She answered straight away: "you want? It's my late husband's and it's been standing there doing nothing for 20 years ... it's too heavy for me to move and if you take it all you can have it".
The set had the AU-9900 and TU-9900 and also the SR-929 turntable.
I thought I had scored there and was pretty happy but it wasn't till later at home when I looked this thing up on the internet that I realised she gave me a gift of more than $1000
There were also some vintage Sansui SP-1200 speakers included and all of it was as new.

This gift actually got me to wanting new speakers to match the quality of the amplifier and so I ended up here building the statements

Wow, that is an awesome story. Good for you! I like the idea of having the inputs and outputs on the side of the chassis rather than the back. One of the high end audio magazines used the TU-9900 as their reference tuner by which to compare all others back in the day. Sansui was one of the very best hi-fi manufacturers until about the early to mid 80's. They are no longer the same company, bought out by others I believe.

I don't mind you using part of an image of mine. We are all here to help and support one another! Looking forward to your build!

[Curt C]

A few more questions:
Is the thickness of the front plate of importance?
I ask this because I plan on using hardwood I have lying around here but it is thicker than the plans of the statements state.
I just received my bassports and resistors in the mail today ... the resistors seem to be square and of the ceramic type ... I hope and assume this shouldn't be a problem, right?

Thicker is better as long as you scallop the backside of the driver holes to minimize cavity resonances. The thicker the front baffle, the deeper and larger the scallop requirement.

IMO, the sandcast resistors in general are certainly acceptable. Without stirring up a controversy, let me say that certain small audible differences may be detectable between resistors, and there are boutique resistor vendors out there who are more than willing to pry the hard earned Euros out of your hands for their version of resistive sonic nirvana.
My suggestion would be to use what you have with the idea that at some time in the future you can experiment with different types/brands to see which you prefer or to determine if the differences are even audible to you. Personally I like the Mills resistors, and have been using the Mundorf MOX resistors lately as a cost effective option.

Vintage Sansui was good equipment, and was the go to component of choice for this poor college boy back in the day. I think it sounded as good as the equivalent Marantz products of the day, but wasn't quite as popular. -Probably because Sansui lacked the blue illumination and 'Gyro' tuning we all lusted after...

C

[AdelaaR]

I've been listening to various old freebee seventies speakers for all my life so the statements will be a HUGE upgrade for me no matter what the quality of the resistors is.
I've got pretty good ears and I could budgetwise get better crossover components but at a certain point the return on investment simply isn't worth it anymore for me.

Speaking of crossovers ... I just glued together some of them:

Image not available

I didn't solder them yet for 2 reasons: first off I don't have a soldering iron yet and secondly I want to wait and let the glue dry first.
I'll try to find some time this weekend to purchase my first actual soldering iron.

[AdelaaR]

"Probably because Sansui lacked the blue illumination"

After I got sucked in by the mesmerizing green illumination of the TU-9900 ... I'll never want anything else!

[sawdust]

"Probably because Sansui lacked the blue illumination"

After I got sucked in by the mesmerizing green illumination of the TU-9900 ... I'll never want anything else!

Smiling...

[cbark]

Wow! That thing looks brand new!

[Curt C]

A solid looking piece of kit, for sure...

Anyone else remember we called this type of frequency scale a slide rule dial?
How many of you even remember slide rules? 8O
I've still got my old Post at home in a box somewhere...

C

[AdelaaR]

The solidity of both the amp and tuner is extreme with the front plates being brushed aluminum and the amp weighing over 18 kilos!
I do not remember the slide rule reference because I wasn't even born yet.
Both my amp and me were made in 1979.
I did however own a slide rule but this has to do with my interest in mathematics as a child.

[AdelaaR]

I made one crossover for the midrange today:

Image not available

It looks a bit weird and crowded because I used multiple combinations to get to the right values:

6,8µF+2,2µF to get 9µF
0,15mH+0,15mH to get 0,30mH
1,5ohm+1,5ohm to get 3ohm
1,8ohm+2,2ohm to get 4ohm

I can't make the second one yet because the shop mistakenly did not send me the needed parts for the induction yet ... hope they will set this straight soon.

[MarkL]

AdelaaR,

The center channel is a different story: Ideally, the center should be capable of the same max SPL and bandwidth as the mains, as it carries the majority of the information in HT venues. It also should be closely voiced to the mains.

Using a pair of 1337’s will gain 6 dB of SPL, but used full range (as in the F4’s) the comb filter effects from the two drivers will be cause significant response aberration, and will vary significantly depending on the listening position. The lack of a real tweeter will be quite obvious, as would the lack of bass response due to the required high pass filter. Even Jed’s R44 (and D44) would, in my opinion be unacceptable used on their side, due to the high crossover frequency to the tweeter.

C

Curt,

Would using a tweeter with a lower xover point (say, the SS HDS, with an xover around 1500) allow the S44 (as I guess it would be called!) to be a decent center? I know the Statements have a center channel already, and there are multiple variations of it, but I need something 7" tall or less. Was excited about the R/D44 until I saw your comments.

[AdelaaR]

I don't believe in spikes so my custom statements will have rubber feet instead of the original base with spikes and I have decided I will place the bass port on the front panel.
Because of the lack of a base and spikes the tweeter will be too low ... so my question is: would it be okay to move all the drivers more to the top of the baffle?
The spacing between the drivers would remain exactly the same, ofcourse
I would move them the same distance as the height of the base with spikes would have been so to have the tweeter in exactly the same spot as originally intended.

[Curt C]

Curt,

Would using a tweeter with a lower xover point (say, the SS HDS, with an xover around 1500) allow the S44 (as I guess it would be called!) to be a decent center? I know the Statements have a center channel already, and there are multiple variations of it, but I need something 7" tall or less. Was excited about the R/D44 until I saw your comments.

We would be getting there, but I don't think anyone has designed a CC using those drivers yet...

Something 7" tall or less:

http://speakerdesignworks.com/AviaTrix_1.html

C

[Curt C]

I don't believe in spikes so my custom statements will have rubber feet instead of the original base with spikes and I have decided I will place the bass port on the front panel.
Because of the lack of a base and spikes the tweeter will be too low ... so my question is: would it be okay to move all the drivers more to the top of the baffle?
The spacing between the drivers would remain exactly the same, ofcourse
I would move them the same distance as the height of the base with spikes would have been so to have the tweeter in exactly the same spot as originally intended.

The only advantage I see with spikes in a speaker this massive, is they won't leave permanent indentations in the carpet. No carpet, no need. Use 3 feet so they don't wobble. The sealed version of the statements moved the drivers up 2" on the baffle. You might be able to squeeze a bit more out, but I can't say if it would make an audible difference or not. You might also consider keeping the overall height the same, and use the extra space at the bottom for a crossover compartment. There are some potential advantages from removing the crossover components from the acoustic energy of the enclosure, and it makes access a bit easier as well...

Keep in mind the base is also to keep them reasonably safe from tipping and potentially harming children and small animals.

C

[AdelaaR]

"children and small animals" !
Funny thing is I woke up this morning with exactly the same idea of making a bottom compartment for the crossover.
The statements will be located in my studio which will be off limits to children (and small animals) so tipping over isn't an issue and due to personal taste I do not like the look of the wider base so I want to make it nice and lean.
If the crossover is in a seperate compartment I can certainly see why this would be better in general but couldn't that create another problem with heat dissapation?
Is a crossover supposed to be vented to be able to lose excess heat?

[AdelaaR]

The audio shop sent me the two little inductors they forgot and so now all crossovers are done:

Image not available

I never thought speakers housed such enormous and complicated electronic circuits. 8O

[Curt C]

Only the well turned out ones, which includes most DIY designs...
Many commercial designs accept compromises in performance to save a few pennies in crossover parts.

C

[Trompie]

Hi AdelaaR its some good progress your making on your speaker project.

I would also like to know how much heat a crossover produce in a closed enclosure. I think it will much depend on how "hard you driven" the speaker.

Trompie

[Cort]

For my mni's fully driven by my emo upa-5. The resistors get warm but not to hot to touch. At normal volume levels they stay at room temp. I did have one that was heating up but it turned out to be a bad solder joint. So I doubt even in a seald enclosure that heat build up would be an issue as long as thier is an inch or so of free air above them.

[AdelaaR]

My resistors are rated at 20W so they should be able to take a beating
Still ... if I make a separate compartment for the crossover I may want to make sure it has some air intake because in sealed speakers at least the air next to the crossovers is moving all the time.
Does anyone know for sure if this is necessary?

[Curt C]

While it appears thermal management is only necessary at very high SPLs, it is always good practice to design a product to exceed its worst possible conditions. Since in a sealed enclosure there is not so much air movement, but pressurization and rarefaction, most of the cooling will be by convection. Conventional in-cab mounting of the crossover should provide sufficient airflow presuming said airflow isn't impeded by the stuffing, or constrained by mounting too close to an enclosure wall. When the crossover is housed in a separate small enclosure, effective cooling suggests inlets and outlets designed to promote convective airflow. The 20W resistors should be sufficient here, regardless.

C

[AdelaaR]

Thinking about it some more .... seperate crossover compartments it is!
Another thing: I've seen some high end diy speakers using bitumen lining on the inside of the cabinets to dampen resonances. Would it be beneficial for the statements to do this or is this unnecessary in this design?
The actual bitumen liner for speakers is pretty expensive but I was thinking about using pads of roofing for it.

[AdelaaR]

Yay ... I found a woodstore in Gent that sells pre-veneered MDF with various options for the veneering
Got a brochure in my hands now ... difficult choice.

[AdelaaR]

No-one on the bitumen stuff? (or is it a silly question somehow?)

[Curt C]

Not silly. Perhaps some confusion as we call bitumen roofing felt or tar paper over here...

Depending on the thickness of the bitumen, I'd suggest using 3 to 4 layers to cover each of the panels. Vance Dickason (Author of the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook) suggests affixing it loosely, with a pan head screw in each corner, and perhaps one in the middle. -For it to function as intended it needs some freedom of movement. I've used it in a couple of designs, but never tried it both ways, so I can't say how much of an audible difference it made. -But it certainly can't hurt anything to use it, and the potential for improvement is there. For a commercial option, Wispermat and BlackHole5 use a loaded vinyl layer in their products to accomplish much the same task.

Unlike foam or stuffing, it does displace and reduce the cabinet volume, so keep that in mind when utilizing it.

C

[AdelaaR]

I was tinkering around with the drivers and noticed that the woofers have soft rubberlike foam surrounds on the bottom of their edges but the drivers for the midrange do not have this. I assume this is important to make sure the drivers are installed airtight and free of resonances.
So how do you install these drivers then? Do you make some custom DIY rubber surrounds? How was this accomplished in the original statements?
I build my flat roof above the kitchen last year and so I have some leftover rubbery stuff I could easily use to cut out round pieces for this job.

[sawdust]

I was tinkering around with the drivers and noticed that the woofers have soft rubberlike foam surrounds on the bottom of their edges but the drivers for the midrange do not have this. I assume this is important to make sure the drivers are installed airtight and free of resonances.
So how do you install these drivers then? Do you make some custom DIY rubber surrounds? How was this accomplished in the original statements?
I build my flat roof above the kitchen last year and so I have some leftover rubbery stuff I could easily use to cut out round pieces for this job.

I used a product that was intended for weatherproofing windows. It is a foam product from 3M with self-stick tape on one side. Should be available at hardware stores or home stores. It comes in various widths and thicknesses.

[AdelaaR]

Yeah I know that stuff ... is it easy to make it round in such a small circle?
I was thinking about cutting circles from a big sheet because I doubted the long stretches could be rounded that small.

[sawdust]

Yeah I know that stuff ... is it easy to make it round in such a small circle?
I was thinking about cutting circles from a big sheet because I doubted the long stretches could be rounded that small.

I had no problem forming it around the Tang Band mids. I think there are differing densities of the foam, but the one I used was a gray color open cell foam and was very flexible. Worked very well.