John's Statement build

[john trials]

I'm joining the Statement family. I've been working on mine for about a month or so now. Progress is slow, due to all the other things summer brings along with it (and my wood shop is quite limited, so I'm slow).

Thanks to Jim, Curt, and Wayne for the excellent design and plans. I've been having a lot of fun building these. I'm new to the DIY speaker hobby, and I really enjoy it. I can hardly wait to hear these things!

I decided to build the Statements because I wanted a really nice set of speakers, but I didn't want the added expense or complexity of a subwoofer. I wanted a speaker that could do it all by itself. My main use is for music, with an occasional movie. I have no interest in 5.1 or 7.1 right now (although that could change...I'm wondering what to do with the left over MDF).

My build is fairly standard, with the only changes being:
1) Rear port. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do for a base, so to leave my options open, I moved the port to the rear.

2) I added some captured T-nuts to the bottom of the cabinet. They were mounted onto a 1.75 square of 3/4" thick MDF, then captured with another square piece of MDF that has a blind hole cut in (it in case the screw protrudes through the T-nut). It also totally seals the hole in the base without relying on the screw to seal it.

3) I decided to make outriggers for my base. They are not as tall as the base in the original plans, so I moved the 5 drivers up by 2.5"

[john trials]

Mid tunnels with tweeter relief:



Mid tunnels glued up with some alignment blocks (yeah, i'm an engineer!)



Completed mid tunnel assembly:



I used an alumium L-extrusion I had lying around to aid in the alignment of the mid tunnels when gluing them onto one of the sides (this is also my circular saw guide for rough cutting the MDF...precision cuts are made with a bandsaw). The rear MDF piece is just clamped in place, and is being used here for alignment only. I also used one of the mid tunnel spacer blocks to help align the mid tunnel assembly height-wise. They are mounted 2.5" higher than in Jim's plans.

You can also see the outrigger mounting features (captured T-nuts) on the bottom panel.

[john trials]

Full cabinet photo. I made the side panels oversized (by quite a bit on the bottom), because I wasn't sure if I was going to build the cabinet a bit taller. I decided during the build to just move the drivers upwards in the cabinet.



For building the baffles, I decided to pin them in place during the build, so I could work on them off of the cabinet, and also fit them accurately to the cabinet. This photo shows only the 3/4" part of the baffle. The 1/2" part of the baffle is being made separately. The 3/4" baffle and 1/2" baffle can be pinned to the cabinet or to each other for test fitting before the final gluing.

[john trials]

For a shortcut in making the baffles, I first cut the driver recesses with a router and circle jig, but I cut the through holes with a jig saw. I found this to be a major time-saver (compared to using a router for the through holes, which is what I did on my Tritrix build). No one is going to see that the holes are not perfect once the speaker is completed.

[savage25xtreme]

what router/router bit did you use for through holes on your tritrix? using my Hitachi KM12V and a 1/2" up cut spiral it took about 30 seconds per hole, only 2 passes. don't think I could drag my jig saw out in the time it took to cut my through holes.

[john trials]

I borrowed a small Craftsman router. It only has a 1/4" collet. Perhaps I use it incorrectly (too slow of a feed rate?). I almost set my Tritrix baffle on fire while cutting the through holes! I cut approximately a 1/4" depth at a time (3 passes for the through holes), but there was a lot of burning (even with a brand new bit). There were even some embers glowing and smoke at one point!

I noticed on my Statements, that the router cut a lot better if I pushed it harder (faster feed rate). I may have been moving too slowly on my Tritrix cuts. I'm new at this woodworking stuff...machining aluminum is my game!

[savage25xtreme]

ya, on your tritrix you suffered from having just enough tool to do the job. with a 1/4" bit your not really cutting a channel wide enough to get all the dust out of there either. a 1/2" upcut is like hot knife through butter

sometimes we have to do the best we can with what we have though :T looking good, keep the updates coming.

[Curt C]

Looking good, John! :T

I hope you enjoy them!

C

[mikela]

You won't be disappointed! :T

[Jim Holtz]

Hi John,

You're well on your way to having completed Statements. They look great! :T

Jim

[Undefinition]

I borrowed a small Craftsman router. It only has a 1/4" collet. Perhaps I use it incorrectly (too slow of a feed rate?). I almost set my Tritrix baffle on fire while cutting the through holes! I cut approximately a 1/4" depth at a time (3 passes for the through holes), but there was a lot of burning (even with a brand new bit). There were even some embers glowing and smoke at one point!

Ahhh... I remember that happening to me once upon a time. The problem was fixed by cleaning the bits (then eliminated altogether by simply getting better bits). I've been using the same CMT 1/4" spiral upcut bit for all my speakers since the first pair. I just make sure and clean it when I'm done

[john trials]

I've got the crossovers almost done. I decided to mount them in the lowest area on the baffle (down below the shelf brace). They will be in an area that doesn't have fiberglass, so there will plenty of air circulation to keep the resistors cool. For mounting, I can access them through the port hole. I glued 3 MDF blocks on the inside of the baffle to use as standoffs.

These crossovers fit through the woofer hole. They are 9 x 5.5". I will connect the speaker wire with solder. I've been in manufacturing for years and seen many problems with electrical connectors. I always make an effort to reduce connectors! Most components are mounted with silicone RTV to reduce vibrations, and the Erse inductor is fastened with plastic screws.

[john trials]

I lined the inner walls with fiberglass. I hate working with this stuff, but in the quest for beautiful sound, a little itching is worth it. What a messy job!

I wired the enclosure before fiberglass to make it easier to route the wires.



The 1/2" thick part of the baffle was glued and pinned in place. Hopefully this weekend I can flush-cut all the edges and glue the 3/4" baffle on.

[Jim Holtz]

Lookin' good! :T

Jim

[john trials]

Thanks, Jim.

I just finished flush-trimming all the edges (front and back) so now I can pin and glue the 3/4" thick baffle. It's already 110F in the sun (where I was working) and it's only 10:30am. I'm glad I got the routing out of the way so I can get back into the basement for gluing!

My neighbor jokingly asked if I was making coffins!

[Jim Holtz]

Hi John,

Just a thought before you glue the 3/4" front baffle on, be sure to scallop the inside of the front baffle around the mids to open it up as much as possible.

Jim

[Bastek]

great job so far! I see you used pink fiberglass i always use yellow, is there any difference in dampening qualities?

[john trials]

Hi John,

Just a thought before you glue the 3/4" front baffle on, be sure to scallop the inside of the front baffle around the mids to open it up as much as possible.

Jim

Yeah. I'll have to check on that. On the 1/2" part of the baffle, I used a flush trim bit to cut the baffle to match the inside of the tunnels (5" square). The 3/4" part of the baffle is chamfered in the back, but I'll have to see how it fits with the 1/2" baffle...I didn't get around to gluing it today.

[john trials]

great job so far! I see you used pink fiberglass i always use yellow, is there any difference in dampening qualities?

I don't know the answer to that question. I just got 2" thick unfaced fiberglass insulation. I've heard others recommend it, but I don't know how it compares to the yellow stuff (is the yellow stuff the fiber-board material, like ceiling tiles that are made for acoustic dampening?).

[john trials]

I'm looking for advice on what type of wood to use for veneer and how to finish it

I've never worked with veneer before, so I'm nervous about ruining all my hard work. Any tips would be appreciated. I've read a lot of posts about the technique, and I plan on practicing on some scrap first. I plan on using 10-mil paper-backed veneer.

Actually, right now my dilemma is choosing the type of wood for the veneer and how to finish it!

I'm thinking of a light-colored wood with little or no stain (Maple, Oak, etc????). I'm also thinking of just using some diluted Seal Coat (50:50 Seal Coat:alcohol) to bring out the grain, then multiple coats of Tung Oil. I was originally thinking of using Old Dad's wipe-on poly, but they've gone out of business, from what i've read.

Any advice?

[BigguyZ]

My advice- stay away from tung oil. Not a fan. Takes forever and a day to cure/ dry. How do you plan to apply the topcoat? If you have an HVLP unit, Pre-cat lacquer is reccomended. However, if you don't, you can get some Arm-R-Seal (might be off on the spelling), from Rockler and thin it down about 50:50 with mineral spirits. Then, you can use that as a wipe on poly. That'll give you a nice, durable finish that you can add until it builds to the level you want. Maybe some zinser seal coat first to give it some color, but the General Finishes poly will deepen the color by itself.

[john trials]

I don't have any equipment for applying a top coat.

I'm new at 'fine' woodworking (I've done projects like building a shed and a deck), and finishing is my least favorite part of any project! So I'd like something that is easy (fool-proof, if that's possible!).

I forgot to mention that I'd like a matte or semigloss finish. I don't want a shiny finish.

[BigguyZ]

I don't have any equipment for applying a top coat.

I'm new at 'fine' woodworking (I've done projects like building a shed and a deck), and finishing is my least favorite part of any project! So I'd like something that is easy (fool-proof, if that's possible!).

I forgot to mention that I'd like a matte or semigloss finish. I don't want a shiny finish.

Then I'd reccomend using a wipe on approach. This with some mineral spirits to thin it down will work very well. Just use a good clean T-shirt style rag to apply. Comes in Satin, Semi-gloss, and Gloss.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10928

[john trials]

Thanks for the finishing tips, BigguyZ.

I must be the slowest speaker builder ever. I finally glued on the 3/4" baffles. Yesterday I routed the edges flush, found the exact center (so I could position the grill mounting holes), and chamfered the vertical edges. Yes, chamfered. I have borrowed a wimpy little router, so I cannot get a big enough roundover bit. I chamfered the edges. Now a bit of sanding, and I'll have rounded edges. I was planning on using quarter-round molding, but the precision of the molding was awful, and it would have been a harder job to use the molding.

Image not available

[john trials]

Seal Coat before iron on veneer?

I plan on covering the cabinets with veneer using the iron-on method. It seems that I still would have to seal the MDF, especially the cut ends.

Is it best to Seal Coat the entire cabinet prior to doing the iron-on veneer? Will the glue layer adhere properly to the MDF after is has been sealed with Seal Coat?

I am going to use the speakers in their un-veneered state for about a month prior to veneering. I want to let the glue joints 'settle' so they don't show through the veneer. Also by doing this, the Seal Coat would have a month to fully dry before veneering (if using the Seal Coat is to be used).

[Sefferdog]

I plan on covering the cabinets with veneer using the iron-on method. It seems that I still would have to seal the MDF, especially the cut ends.

Is it best to Seal Coat the entire cabinet prior to doing the iron-on veneer? Will the glue layer adhere properly to the MDF after is has been sealed with Seal Coat?

I am going to use the speakers in their un-veneered state for about a month prior to veneering. I want to let the glue joints 'settle' so they don't show through the veneer. Also by doing this, the Seal Coat would have a month to fully dry before veneering (if using the Seal Coat is to be used).

When I veneered mine I didn't seal coat anything. I painted them two coats with a roller and a 50/50 mixture of Titebond and water. Gave the cut ends an extra coat. Came out nicely and the are now two years old, holding up nicely.

[Bill Schneider]

John, I wouldn't seal coat the MDF before veneering. I read a US Forestry Service bulletin from the past that experimentally determined that shellac will greatly reduce the bond between wood and veneer when using wood glues. MDF isn't wood however, but is made from wood fibers.

Wish I could footnote the citation. I can't though, but the report's conclusion was clearly stated and unambiguous.

[john trials]

Sefferdog and Bill, thanks for the info. I'm glad you posted so soon, as I was thinking of sealing my enclosures today. Intuitively, it seems like a coating of Seal Coat would weaken the glue bond between the wood and veneer, but a Titebond document regarding iron-on veneering says it's an option to seal the back of the veneer to prevent any bleed-through of glue. That got me unsure as to what is best. I am mainly concerned about the ends of the MDF soaking up all of the glue, but an extra coating of glue on the ends really makes sense.

I'll just leave my Statements bare MDF until I get the veneer. Now I'll spend the day installing the drivers and crossover and give these things a test!

Sefferdog, did you apply the 2 coats of glue immediately prior to ironing the veneer? Did you let the first coat dry for an long time, or just a few hours before the second coating? (btw, your build posts are part of what got me into building the Statements...thanks!)

[JonMarsh]

I don't know the answer to that question. I just got 2" thick unfaced fiberglass insulation. I've heard others recommend it, but I don't know how it compares to the yellow stuff (is the yellow stuff the fiber-board material, like ceiling tiles that are made for acoustic dampening?).

I've always been a pink man myself when I use fiberglass... It's what came on the faced rolls I used to buy.

[Sefferdog]

Sefferdog, did you apply the 2 coats of glue immediately prior to ironing the veneer? Did you let the first coat dry for an long time, or just a few hours before the second coating? (btw, your build posts are part of what got me into building the Statements...thanks!)

I applied the first coat in the evening after work, went out the next night and applied coat number two. The following evening I did the seams a third coat along with a coat of the glue/water mixture to the back of the veneer.

The following day I applied the veneer to the MDF by ironing it on using an old sheet over the veneer to insure I didn't scorch it. Had the iron almost as high as the heat would go. It is really a very simple evolution.

You will know by looking when you have an ample amount of glue on the MDF. It takes on a shiny look due to the glue. I think on the minis I may of had to do the seams four coats. You will know.

[john trials]

Sefferdog, thanks for the very detailed info. The more detail, the better!

Yesterday I soldered the driver wires to the crossover, installed the crossovers (they fit through the woofer hole, and I screwed them to the inside of the baffle by working through the rear port hole).

Today I'm installing the drivers and giving them a test. Unfortunately, I have to rearrange the room to accomodate these giants, so that's going to take the most time!

[savage25xtreme]

If you are using tite bond 2 or 3 you have to do it much faster. somewhere on here someone posted a link that described reactivation times from the 3 different tite bond glues... if my memory is correct tite bond 2 was 10 hours. tite bond 1 was a few days.

[john trials]

Savage, yeah, I have that document from Titebond. It has great info. I'm not sure if someone posted it here or at the PE forum. I have a gallon of the Titebond II, so the reactivation period is not too long. Gotta plan ahead!

I got my Statement drivers in, and totally rearranged a room for them. It'll be interesting to see my wife's reaction when she gets home! They kind of dominate the room!

WOW. These sound great. At first I thought a little too much mids, but then I realized I haven't cut/installed the mid tunnel foam yet. Vocals are fabulous...just a little louder than the rest of the band! Anita Baker (Rapture), Rufus (Stompin' at the Savoy)...amazingly clean sound.

[john trials]

Here is a photo of my chamfer-to-roundover transformation. It took about 1 hour per speaker and the results are really nice. I couldn't have done this good of a job using the roundover molding. The sanding was pretty easy because the sanding patterns in the MDF let me know where more material should be removed. There was no need for a guide coat. I even made a jig to measure the radius, but it was not needed. Obviously, if I had a 1/2" collet on the router, I would have been done in about 5 minutes, but I'm too cheap to buy a router.



Here is a photo of the crossover mounted on the front baffle, beneath the lower woofer, below the shelf brace...nice and cozy. The photo was taken through the rear port hole.



I know...a little premature (these Statements still need veneer). I am sick and tired of lugging these things around! I'm glad they have the mid tunnels, because they make for really nice areas for grip...I've been moving these things all by myself. I needed to kick back, relax and enjoy for a while (with my daughter) after moving the whole room around.

All you 'tube purists' will enjoy this photo!!!!



Photos of the home-made outriggers will be revealed once these are covered in veneer...

[savage25xtreme]

looks great to me! strong work! :T

[soundemon]

Looking real good - nice work!

[sawdust]

First off, they look great! Good job!

I've started my Statements build and currently am planning the crossover setup. Is there a worry of having the inductors too close to one another and interacting? Would it be better to create three individual boards and separate them with some distance?

One other question is how important is it that the drivers be exactly flush mounted? As hard as I tried, they aren't exactly flush.

Thanks,
Joe

[john trials]

Guys, thanks for all the compliments.

Sawdust: Having the inductors too close to each other (and to the drivers, I believe) is a concern due to the interaction of their magnetic fields. Here's some good info: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm I tried to minimize any iron near the xover, too. I used plastic screws to mount the Erse inductor, and I used brass screws with plastic washers to fasten the xovers to the inside of the baffle.

You could make 3 separate xovers and space them out. I found it much easier to make it all one board...less interconnections, easier to mount, etc. My board is on the large size, so the inductors are fairly well spaced. I spent a bit of time laying the components out, with the inductors separated as far as possible (and oriented the correct way). My layout is definitely not the only solution. It's like a puzzle, but there is more than one way to do it.

Flush mounting the drivers: I believe it's to reduce areas of diffraction (mainly in the upper frequency range)...plus it looks nice! It's tough to get them exactly flush, with gasket and veneer thickness in the mix. I used a caliper to measure the drivers, then used that measurement when cutting the driver recesses. I used a scrap piece of MDF to run a test of the depth and radius before making the real cut on the baffle. If your recesses are too deep, you can always use a thicker gasket.

If the drivers are not exactly flush mounted (and to within what tolerance?!), can you hear a difference? I probably can't.

Good luck with the build...these things sound great!!!!!!!! Everyone was out of my house for a while yesterday, which is very rare. I gave my amp the torture test while listening to my Statements!

[sawdust]

Thanks John.

Can hardly wait. I'm about 95% 2 channel music and 5% HT, so great imaging is paramount to me. I think I've spent more on new tools and router bits than on the speakers themselves.... whoops. My wife so far has said very little, but I'm waiting for the hammer to fall. I'm at the point point of assembling the crossovers, running the wiring and installing the wedge foam in the enclosures and finally gluing the baffle on.
Veneering comes later.

[john trials]

Sawdust, it sounds like you're pretty close to getting to listen to your Statements!!!!! Cool!

So far my Statements have been 100% stereo...I have no HT.

I lucked out in the tool department. I built mine with limited funding for tools, so I had to be a little creative, and rely on some very generous people. I didn't want to buy anything I wouldn't use in the future. I borrowed some clamps, a jig saw (mainly for the grills) and a small router. I own a hand-held circular saw (rough cuts) and a bandsaw (precision cuts with a home-made fence). All I had to buy for tools were some more clamps and a few router bits. I spent less than $100 for all of those.

[john trials]

prep work for veneer

I recently disassembled my Statements to prep them for veneer (I miss them already!). This is my first time applying veneer, so I've been taking my time. I'm using the iron-on glue method. I'm surprised how easy it is...very nice! I've just been trimming the test pieces with a razor blade after they are ironed onto the MDF, then sanding the edge flush.

I used 2-ton epoxy to mount some small neo magnets into the baffle, for a hidden grill mount. I covered the magnets with epoxy so the epoxy hardened a little proud of the baffle surface. Then I sanded the epoxy flush.

I mixed a 1:1 ratio of Titebond II to water and applied it to the cut edges of the MDF. I applied two more coats to the entire speaker enclosure. I really liked this method compared to using Seal Coat. The glue mixture went on smoothly with a brush, and I got a really nice surface finish that will require very little sanding (I got a few small runs in the glue). It gives the MDF a nice hard surface. The clean up with the glue is so much easier than with the Seal Coat, too.

I painted the rear of the mid tunnels black, just so they look a little nicer if they show under the foam. I also cut the veneer to size, so this weekend, I can begin applying it to the back, then the top and bottom.

[johngalt47]

Who is the owner of the painted toenails? :B

[john trials]

Veneer peeling a bit..any tips?

I applied the veneer to the backs (glue-iron method). Everything went PERFECTLY. I later applied the veneer to the tops and bottoms.

The next day, when starting to trim the tops, I noticed the veneer was not full bonded to the cabinet. I could lift it just a little around the back edge. I think this happened due to not enough glue in that area, because I used a lot of heat, and I definitely concentrated around the edges when ironing.

Can heating it for too long be bad?

I'm wondering if my fix is going to be good enough. I used a chisel to push glue into the gap between the veneer and the MDF. I placed a scrap of MDF on top, then loaded it with 70 pounds of weights and let it dry. The reason I did not iron the area again, is that I used Titebond II, which has a 'reactivation time' of 12 hours, and it had been 24 hours since I had first applied glue to the MDF and veneer.

Is there a better method for fixing any peeling veneer after the activation time is up?

I'd like to know, because the next step is going to be the wrap-around veneer around the front and sides, which is going to be a tricker job than the smaller, flat sections I did this weekend. I'm going to put a thicker layer of glue this time, and check the edges after ironing, within the reactivation time.

[Bill Schneider]

Just a W.A. thought here... do you have a hypodermic needle that you could fill with glue? You might be able to insert it through the veneer at some distance from the edge and flood the gap with glue. Clamp it until dry.

[john trials]

I was looking for a hypodermic needle once I discovered the loose veneer (I have some syringes...for bicycle hydraulics...forks and brakes), but no luck with a needle. The wood chisel I used was about 1.5" wide, with a nice long taper to it, so it slid between the MDF and veneer really well, pushing fresh glue in.

I just hope the glue joint holds!