I can has Statements: Another Statement LCR build

[jyqureshi]

Hello everyone,

About a month ago I started my quest for DIY speakers and a week later decided to build Statements, now finally things have started to come together.

So here goes:


Parts Express didn't have the 4" Titanium Driver, I'm also waiting for the NeoCd3.0s in black.

Kitteh disapproves of incomplete parts



Serious pile of MDF is serious



All MDF in the house now



Kitteh committeh inspecting the mid drivers

[jyqureshi]

I will start with building the center cabinet first.

Question:

Baffle: Should I make the holes first in two MDFs or should I glue them first and then make holes?

[cacophonix]

glue it and then make the cutouts ... you won't run into the issue of cutouts not lining when you glue them.

[Jim Holtz]

Hi jyqureshi,

Your build is looking great so far! :T

Sorry to hear about the parts being out of stock though. I hope the wait isn't too long. We're looking forward to seeing the build proceed.

Good luck!

Jim

[jyqureshi]

Thanks Jim.

I sure will be needing some guidance from you and others during the course of this build.

[jyqureshi]

Thanks cacophonix, I'll glue the pieces together first.

Cabinet Lining: I am thinking of using memory foam since it is an open cell foam, any other suggestions will be welcomed.

[ThomasW]

I am thinking of using memory foam since it is an open cell foam, any other suggestions will be welcomed.

Do you have any coefficient of absorption measurements for this material? If not use what the speaker's designer recommends.

[jyqureshi]

Update:
The center channel's pieces didn't turn out to be square enough and the front and back pieces are cut exact size, so the finish will not be good enough.

I will cut new pieces for the center.

And for cabinet lining, I'm going with mineral wool Roxul Rockboard 60 2", instead of memory foam.

[FroDaddy]

The way I cut the driver holes is drill the guide hole all the way through the front baffle. (Make sure to measure the speaker diameters before cutting.) I cut driver recess first, then cut the driver hole about halfway down. Then I flip the baffle over and finish the hole. Thomas mentioned this in a thread somewhere and this is the way I do it now.

For the cabinet pieces, I cut 4 of the sides to spec and oversize the final 2 pieces that will be assembled last. So if you're assembling the cabinets exactly like the build sheets say, then you would cut the front and rear baffles oversized. This way you can assemble the top, bottom, sides, then the front, and rear baffles and use a flush trim bit on the front/rear baffles to make it look perfect to the other 4 sides. I was fortunate to use a nice tablesaw that made accurate cuts, so I added 1/2in or so to my final 2 assembled pieces so I have a 1/4in overhang to play with.

I hope this helps, everyone has their own ways of doing things but this works for me.

[ahaik]

Then I flip the baffle over and finish the hole.

I never tried it, what is the advantage in doing that?

[DeathMonk]

I did it that way on the sub I built because the baffle was 1.5" thick. The spiral bit only cut 1" deep.

[jyqureshi]

I'm glad that the pieces for L/R came out right, the baffle pieces are 1/2" over sized too.

I guess I can practice using a router for the first time on the "bad" center pieces.
I bought a set of router bits from Harbor Freight, cost about $25, and I think they're not that long, so most likely I will do the "flip" method to cut the holes all the way.

Again, thank you for your inputs.

[savage25xtreme]

I never tried it, what is the advantage in doing that?

I have the same question. If your bit is long enough why not do it from the same side?

this is the bit I use: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K29JT6

So I guess if I ever cut through more that 1.25 Ill have to flip it, or maybe not with the driver recess?

[ahaik]

I have the same question. If your bit is long enough why not do it from the same side?

this is the bit I use: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K29JT6

So I guess if I ever cut through more that 1.25 Ill have to flip it, or maybe not with the driver recess?

When I having buffles thicker then the length of the cutter, you can still cut deeper by keeping a little of the shank out of the collet.
the shank part without the knives will ride inside the part that was already cut.

[DeathMonk]

I'm scared of routers and bits spinning at thousands of RPMs, so I personally would never do that

[ThomasW]

And for cabinet lining, I'm going with mineral wool Roxul Rockboard 60 2", instead of memory foam.

That stuff is low cost, great for subs and making room treatments.

It's probably too thick and to absorbent to be used for the mid chambers in this design. You'll need to experiment to see how much is needed for the woofers chambers.

[Jim Holtz]

To add to the comments Thomas made, the mid tunnel MUST be lined with 1" foam. The speaker was voiced with 1" foam and anything else will throw the balance off.

The Rockboard used properly looks great for the woofers. :T

Jim

[jyqureshi]

I will use the recommended material for the mid tunnel for sure.

I thought this material is quite stiff, so it will be easier to cut and line up in woofer chambers:



If 703 and mineral wool are similar to work with then, I don't think saving $17 makes sense.

Is 703 as stiff and dense as mineral wool's 6lb per cubic foot density?

[jyqureshi]

Is 703 as stiff and dense as mineral wool's 6lb per cubic foot density?

Well to answer my own question, Roxul Rockboard 60 is as dense as Owens Corning 705.

[ThomasW]

Roxul is a bit stiffer than OC703/705. Neither is very difficult to cut with a long serrated edge knife (think slicing bread).

[FroDaddy]

I never tried it, what is the advantage in doing that?

It seems to keep the bit cooler, but it was probably originally suggested due to having a short bit. I've went through a lot of bits so I'm familiar with the sounds a bit makes before it's about to let go. So far I haven't had problems using the flip method.

[jyqureshi]

Thanks Thomas for that input.

One more thing, when gluing 703, is it easy to handle or it bends/wobbles a lot?

[Face]

I love the narration of the first post.

[jyqureshi]

Thanks Face.

My cats always get very excited to see new stuff come in the house, specially boxes, as soon as I open them, they just want to jump in and start the inspection.

[jyqureshi]

Tang Band W4-1337SD 4" Titanium still out of stock

Parts-Express just updated the status of Tang Band W4-1337SD 4" Titanium Driver, it won't be in-stock till 6/17/2009 :M

[Jim Holtz]

Solen shows only two in stock and Meniscus doesn't stock W4-1337SA's. Parts Express is listed as the North American distributors for Tang Band.

Jim

[jyqureshi]

Thanks Jim.

I'm on the fence on this, should I wait and get same drivers for all, or just get one for the center. I read somewhere that 1337SD is tiny bit better than 1337SA.

Confused.

[john trials]

Thanks Jim.

I'm on the fence on this, should I wait and get same drivers for all, or just get one for the center. I read somewhere that 1337SD is tiny bit better than 1337SA.

Confused.

The lack of stock for the W4s and the Foundtek tweeters is very disappointing. I guess there is no rush for me to start on the cabinets.

I'm also confused about the W4-1337SA versus the W4-1337SD. At parts-express.com, the driver is listed as SD, but when you click on the 'specifications' tab, the PDF that shows up is for the SA.

Is there a difference?

[Jim Holtz]

Hi fellas,

I checked with PE and they couldn't tell me so I've sent an email to Tang Band. I suspect it's just a difference in driver certification like it was when they added the "A" to the name.

I will let everyone know as soon as I hear from them.

Jim

[PoorboyMike]

If you are really anxious to get these going, I have 4 of the W4-1337 still in the box that I could sell you. 2 of them were taken out of the boxes and tested by Jed, but other than that, they are brand new.

Edit: I just checked PE and it shows them in stock. Strange.

[jyqureshi]

Oh yeah!
It does say In Stock now. calling PE right now

[jyqureshi]

Just spoke to Sharon, she said my 5 Tang Bands will ship tomorrow :drool:

Mike: Thanks for the offer though :T, I am really anxious to already start using them!

[PoorboyMike]

Just spoke to Sharon, she said my 5 Tang Bands will ship tomorrow :drool:

Mike: Thanks for the offer though :T, I am really anxious to already start using them!

No problem! At the rate I'm going, I wont be needing them until June anyway, so I figured somebody could get some use out of them. That's cool that PE has them back in stock though. Now shouldn't you be out cutting wood? :B

[jyqureshi]

:rofl:
You're right, I should be!
But the noise will throw my co-workers off, so I'll do it at home once I get there.

[Jim Holtz]

Good morning!

I received an email from Tang Band over night and it's as I suspected, just a minor change. In this case, they changed the terminals to a gold variety. Here's the response they sent me:

Sorry for the confusion about the product # changes, refer attached photos.

1. W4-1337S --- Non- Rohs

2 .W4-1337SA --- To meet environment requirement, from 2007 July 1, all products produced in China need to use Rohs version components which is to meet Rohs compliance, therefore, we had a big change for all products number to seperate two category items, non-Rohs and Rohs. From outlook, they are exactly same.

3. W4-1337SD --- refer attached photo, you could find the terminal we change to golden color and with different design, which is to improve the outlook of driver, make it more high end, it won't affect the performance.

Above changes won't affect the performance.

In addition to W4-1337S, we change most of 4", 5" and 6.5" to new terminal. For example, W4-1320I and W4-1320SJ....

So, the driver is the same just some modest upgrades. I might also add that I'm impressed with how responsive Tang Band is to end users like myself. This is the 2nd time I've contacted them with questions and received very prompt answers.

Jim

[deewan]

This is the 2nd time I've contacted them with questions and received very prompt answers.

Jim

That is prolly becuse they have your name on a VIP list. ;x(

[Jim Holtz]

That is prolly becuse they have your name on a VIP list. ;x(

LOL! That is highly doubtful. :rofl:

I don't think PE knows why they're selling so many W4-1337's. Between Jed's numerous designs using this driver and the various Statements designs, We might be the driving factor in their sales. :B

Not that it matters but none of our designs can make it into the PE project showcase because we didn't use all PE parts. It's the sound quality results that count so I spend no time worrying about PE etc.

Jim

[jyqureshi]

deewan, my head read your post in Stewie's voice ! hah

Thanks Jim for taking your time to answer our questions

[Hdale85]

The W4-1337SA is pretty big on the DIY Mobile Audio forum as well. Everyone loves it For good reason too! Fantastic midrange.

[Russ_L]

ROHS Issues

It's laudable of Tangband to let the user community know that they have implemented ROHS AND changed part numbers for the drivers. We're finding that manufacturers of many passive parts have not changed the part numbers for their ROHS compliant parts. Its only become obvious when someone noticed that the tape and reel parts we received were coming in with a Pb in a circle with a line through the Pb (no lead).

The ROHS compliant active parts (mostly) appear to have new part numbers if nothing more than a NOPB suffix. Big pain in the butt as we have to continually update our bills of material. :evil: But way good for the planet.

Don't get me started though on throwing batteries away in a garbage pail.

Russ

[john trials]

Jim, thanks for clearing up the W4 confusion. Now I have to find some Foundteks!

[ahaik]

As far as I know, Madi and Meniscus are getting the Founteks today.

[deewan]

As far as I know, Madi and Meniscus are getting the Founteks today.

I heard bascially the same thing, only it might be +1 or +2 days for Meniscus since the tweeters were to hit Chicago on the 8th.

[BobEllis]

Zalytron's site says they have Founteks too.

[jyqureshi]

I called Elliot, Zalytron's contact, a few days back and he said he doesn't have NeoCds anymore and will remove the information from the website. :huh: