HDMI 1.4 Upgrade Kit

[aarsoe]

So do I take this as an official Classe attitude, that if the customer expects a fully working Product, then the customer should go elsewhere? Or is this your ( Rebelman) own point of view?
Think this clearly illustrates why non-official spokespersons is a bad thing in the long run..
Also your point about my needs being of less importance to others, also makes me question if that is an official point Of view? If so, then how do you proritize what comes first? Or is it depending on when you have extra time available on your "brilliant" software engineers busy schedule, and if they actually know how to fix it?

[RebelMan]

So do I take this as an official Classe attitude, that if the customer expects a fully working Product, then the customer should go elsewhere? Or is this your ( Rebelman) own point of view?

All mine. You are clearly insatiable. You PM me for help. I offered you my assistance to help as best as I could. You ignore the reply and then publicly gripe about the quality of the product and the support from the manufacture. Are you crazy? :roll:

Think this clearly illustrates why non-official spokespersons is a bad thing in the long run..

Not the case. Again your feelings cloud your thinking.

Also your point about my needs being of less importance to others, also makes me question if that is an official point Of view? If so, then how do you proritize what comes first? Or is it depending on when you have extra time available on your "brilliant" software engineers busy schedule, and if they actually know how to fix it?

Don't take it personally. It applies to anyone and everyone. Your needs are not more or less important to anyone else. But the priorities of assigning resources to those needs for the greater good are. You have the option to tell Classe' how dissatisfied you are by returning the product. Will you?

[aarsoe]

Why do you care? You assure me Of you not being affiliated with Classe..

[aarsoe]

What I really would like is a list Of known bugs/errors and a corresponding date when the issues are expected to be fixed by.
Don't think that is not reasonable.

[RebelMan]

Why do you care? You assure me Of you not being affiliated with Classe..

If you are going to talk the talk then walk the walk.

[RebelMan]

What I really would like is a list Of known bugs/errors and a corresponding date when the issues are expected to be fixed by.
Don't think that is not reasonable.

You are not entitled. Ask another CE of the same and see what they tell you. I think you are crazy.

[aarsoe]

Entitled to know when the errors I experience will be fixed? Or how many errors exist that has not been fixed...

[garak]

Have any of you contacted Classé about the issues you're having?

I had an issue with one of the software releases causing loss of audio on certain types of blu-rays when using a certain blu-ray player. I reported the issue to Classé and Tom at Classé responded very quickly and a fix was included in the next release. I have nothing but good things to say about their customer service. I don't believe they take the attitude of dismissing customers or downplaying issues.

I just say welcome to the world of low-volume niche manufacturers. Like it or not, they just don't have the resources or the man-power to tackle all of the things a large volume manufacturer does.

Classé is not alone in this. For example I was speaking to a Ferrari owner, and he said that if you buy a new Ferrari, it may take 12-18 months to sort out all of the issues in the car, sometimes at your own expense. And this is for a brand new car that costs 10 times that of a reasonably priced car.

I think the Ferrari is an apt analogy here. IMO, if you buy a Classé or Ferrari, you're paying a premium for the performance, not for rock solid stability or reliability. But that is the trade-off for going with a small volume manufacturer.

[Skyblue]

Did you recover the work? If not then I would say that was an ineffective use of resources and your problem still remains. Other than a little hand holding how was the service beneficial if you didn't recover your work? See the point?

Well, it actually surpriced me a lot to see actual customer service from a company that must have hundred millions of customers. Even though there was a quick fix, they went the extra mile for me, because it mattered to me. That is outstanding. You try to get that from IBM without sending them $1 mio.

Every company has their way of doing things. Again no one is perfect.

Perfection is not required. Only the ability to learn and a wish to improve.

When you buy a car is the manufacture expected to help you drive it? No. They are expected to ensure that it works. Not everything does though and when it doesn't then they should fix them. Each (car) manufacture has to prioritize their responsibilities. Those priorities may not align with yours. That's just how it is sometimes. A non-working LED may be a big deal to a few people but not to the majority. That's doesn't make it right or wrong. Resources are put where the greatest needs come first. You have a need but your need isn't as important as others. Doctor anyone?

I think car analogies doesn't really work here. Cars are routinely recalled if errors are discovered, on the other hand, those errors can kill the customers. As for the need of some customers vs. others. well, obviously you can do that, however, then the customer should be informed. We are sorry, so and so, your led issue is not on our todo list for the next 2 years...

True, and... what's your point?

They are overcharching for the board because they believe the customers to be loyal and not switch to a competitor.

[Skyblue]

A case of sour grapes. Hopefully, you are still within your grace period to return the product. If not then sell it to someone else who will take pleasure in it more than you do/can.

I find this statement really really arrogant. This is customers that have put down a lot of money for classe/b&w products. They have minor complaints, and you ask them to take a hike? Really?

How about the customer is always right? How about classe listen and learn instead? This is just downright silly.

[Skyblue]

Have any of you contacted Classé about the issues you're having?

I had an issue with one of the software releases causing loss of audio on certain types of blu-rays when using a certain blu-ray player. I reported the issue to Classé and Tom at Classé responded very quickly and a fix was included in the next release. I have nothing but good things to say about their customer service. I don't believe they take the attitude of dismissing customers or downplaying issues.

I just say welcome to the world of low-volume niche manufacturers. Like it or not, they just don't have the resources or the man-power to tackle all of the things a large volume manufacturer does.

Well, a company like Ayre, whose goods I also enjoy, have cheap upgrades, sometimes even free. The company owner regularly answers questions on the audiophile forums, and helpfully explains decisions and provides direct numbers to the proper Ayre employee. And Classe is not a niche producer. They are part of a giant corporation that owns b&w, rotel as well. I'm sure they could hire a secretary to take customer service out of the stone age.

Classé is not alone in this. For example I was speaking to a Ferrari owner, and he said that if you buy a new Ferrari, it may take 12-18 months to sort out all of the issues in the car, sometimes at your own expense. And this is for a brand new car that costs 10 times that of a reasonably priced car.

I think the Ferrari is an apt analogy here. IMO, if you buy a Classé or Ferrari, you're paying a premium for the performance, not for rock solid stability or reliability. But that is the trade-off for going with a small volume manufacturer.

I don't buy it. Ferraries are well known for breaking down. As they said on top gear: A Ferrari used to be unsellable once it hit 40.000km's on the counter. They drove them round on trucks..

I understand that Dartzeels products can be a bit like that. Very very special and difficult to set up, and they might break from misconfiguration. However I have no personal experience with this.

In any case, Classe is in competition with companies that DO do customer service. Like Denon, Anthem and others. So it makes little sense to pretend that customers have no other choice. In fact, what all companies have in common, is that they are worth zilch without their customers.

[sikoniko]

The "attention to detail" statement rings very true to me. That is what separates the excellent from the merely good.

While its true that no piece of software is ever bugfree, not even mine, then you CAN measure the quality of the development team by how fast they fix bugs once they are identified.

I have worked in large software projects, where everything that didnt crash the system or made in unusable was ignored. Thats produces software on budget and on time, but everybody hates it.

The bright LED is such an issue. It matters not to the operation of the system, but its a test as to whether the developers care about their customers or whether they just sell their stuff an then ignore them.

Another example: My windows vista crashed hard a couple of years ago. I could not access my files on my win drive, which, while a pain, wasnt the end of the world and a reinstall would fix things. Nevertheless there was some recent work that I would like to recover, so I called Microsoft for help. After all, I had payed $200 for this software, and now it didn't work. Microsoft assigned a technician to help me, and he spend most of an entire week discussing and suggesting different solutions before we gave up and had to reinstall. Now that is dedication to customers.

First of all, let me say that I do not believe you are a software programmer to make such bold statements.

I am a software integrator for products like Citrix, Microsoft, VMWare for fortune 500 companies and up and NOT ONE OF THEM IS BUG FREE. Furthermore, NOT ONE OF THEM EVER WILL BE. And don't try and tell me Mac's are any better. I am typing this post on a Mac. that notion is dillusional at best.

Prior to this, I worked for a healthcare company that deployed Electronic Medical Records. Let me tell you, the grass is always greener. My company was an oncology group, who used the system to treat cancer patients and it would crash hourly. And the Doc's would always say, "we should have gone with the other brand" but you know what, we would talk to people using the other brand and they had the same issues.

Bugs can come in many different flavors and are not always easy to reproduce. If you made a program that was bug free, it was called "hello world".

What any company should do, and Classé in particular, is to monitor relevant forums and interact with satisfied and unsatisfied customers. Back in the day, an unsatisfied customer would tell his 10-50 best friends. Now, everybody reads about it on the internet.

if they do that, who is going to pay for that salary? you realise that would only increase prices of the products...

Ideally, Classé should have contacted aarsoe, either privately or on the board, and inquired what the error is and why it bothers him so much. I bet fixing it would take 5 mins, and with unittest and specs and a possible menu, probably cost full day of work. Having customers who do not feel left in a ditch, is however priceless.

I disagree. aarose should contact classe instead of whining on the boards about it. have you ever heard of a cost to benefit analysis? companies release faulty products ALL THE TIME.

As for the 3D board, I also think it sounds really strange with $1500 for a passthrough board. As pointed out, other manufacturers can sell entire units with that function for less, and they also includes dacs, hd codecs, fully functional rooom correction. I bet they don't sound as sweet, but with a denon your update happens through the ethernet cable, and it works.

then buy from the other company. the way capitalism works is you talk with your wallet. if people quit buying products, companies have to make changes.

[sikoniko]

In any case, Classe is in competition with companies that DO do customer service. Like Denon, Anthem and others. So it makes little sense to pretend that customers have no other choice. In fact, what all companies have in common, is that they are worth zilch without their customers.

You obviously never bought the Anthem Statement. Their customers have been riddled with far more bugs for far longer. go read the thread on avs.

[sikoniko]

I would agree on my dealer could be better in their product knollegde when it comes to Classe, but as far as I am aware they are not responsible for poor hdmi implementation, led issues, lack noise generator for the sub, etc, etc..
I am not horrified about pruducts having some issues from the beginning, when they are announnced (as long as we are not talking about airplanes, cars and other things in that category) but announcing a half baked Product and not really do much about the issues is border lining a class Action suit when some Of them have been known for so long.
But I am sure my points will be dismissed.. Just wished someone officially from Classe would do it, instead Of hiding behind someone else..

I'm going to change my mind. I have no sympathy for you and your situation, nor am I obligated to.

I do not have led issues, my hdmi is functioning fine and my noise generator is also functioning.

I am aware that Classe had to change the part for the led, for whatever reason, and newer models are brighter than older models. Perhaps you should have bought your ssp-800 sooner?

[sikoniko]

I think car analogies doesn't really work here. Cars are routinely recalled if errors are discovered, on the other hand, those errors can kill the customers. As for the need of some customers vs. others. well, obviously you can do that, however, then the customer should be informed. We are sorry, so and so, your led issue is not on our todo list for the next 2 years...

perfect example of company selling cars that they knew could kill someone and they sold it anyways

[aarsoe]

Sikoniko

So lack Of excellence in others makes it ok to not fix issues?
All I want is to know if I can count on the errors being fixed or not. I did contact b&w - but I am not impressed on their lack Of ability to answer when it comes to simple questions like "when will this be fixed?".
If you don't like my whining them go read another post.. This is the only thread where I apperently have dared to upset you by asking questions about who can really answer on behalf Of Classe..

But don't worry. Have realized that this is the wrong place to have any concerns about anything.. Let's all confirm each other in the fact that what we have is absolutly perfect..

[Skyblue]

You obviously never bought the Anthem Statement. Their customers have been riddled with far more bugs for far longer. go read the thread on avs.

Fairnuf. But why can't they make it right the first time ?

[Skyblue]

perfect example of company selling cars that they knew could kill someone and they sold it anyways

Here a supermarket chain knowingly sold bad meat. Now they are closing down stores here and there. I think they'll make it, but they have certainly been hurt.

[wettou]

Well it is clear that Sikoniko and RebelMan are drinking the Classé propaganda and are 100% sold to the company, You would think they either work at Classé or are shareholder except the company is not public. Maybe they get discounts :rofl:

Well it is very unfortunate that Dave N. or Tom are not participating because they could really help with taking care of customer problems.

I have been told directly, sorry nothing we can do about HDMi switching well guess what Sony ES, Panasonic, Marantz, Denon, Onkyo don't have HDMi switching issues.

I have a hate love relationship with my SSP-800, I love the design (box) and when it performs I am very happy and once the movie start I truly have a premier experience, but I wished that the bugs and features would be addressed in a more timely fashion.

No products is perfect and no companies are, but when you spend close to $10,000 on a processor you expect the piece to work 100% of the time.

[RebelMan]

I find this statement really really arrogant. This is customers that have put down a lot of money for classe/b&w products. They have minor complaints, and you ask them to take a hike? Really?

I find this statement really, really ignorant. A sour grapes attitude is when someone is bitter and no matter what anyone else does or says, they remain bitter. If someone tries to show them the positive side of whatever situation is ailing them, and they rebut everything with a negative comment then that is a sour grape attitude. Get the point? Good. Lets dance!

How about the customer is always right? How about classe listen and learn instead? This is just downright silly.

How about... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Ever read that one? Classe' doesn't take that position but many companies do. Some people are beyond help no matter how hard they try to please them. Some people are unreasonable with their demands and no matter what the company does to please them they remain dissatisfied.

I am calling aarsoe's bluff in that I don't think he really dislikes the company, the product or the service. He's a long time member to these boards. He has read all the good and bad that has come this way yet he still bought the product. I believe he is just simply frustrated with his situation to set the thing up and he is venting those frustrations here. I genuinely felt for him and I extended an offer to help him and he rejected that offer. arrsoe has no other option but return the product because he refuses to be helped any other way. My guess is he is making a much bigger issue than there is. His refusal to return the product is proof of that.

[sikoniko]

Sikoniko

So lack Of excellence in others makes it ok to not fix issues?
All I want is to know if I can count on the errors being fixed or not. I did contact b&w - but I am not impressed on their lack Of ability to answer when it comes to simple questions like "when will this be fixed?".
If you don't like my whining them go read another post.. This is the only thread where I apperently have dared to upset you by asking questions about who can really answer on behalf Of Classe..

But don't worry. Have realized that this is the wrong place to have any concerns about anything.. Let's all confirm each other in the fact that what we have is absolutly perfect..

actually, no. I think everyone has a right, especially customers to speak up when having an issue and that is not what I was criticizing you about. It is how you were going about it that bothered me.

first of all, we are all consumers. Classe does not participate on this board to my knowledge. They will respond to phone calls or emails though. I know for a fact Dave has taken time to respond to even wettou when asked questions.

What I don't appreciate is when we begin to attack each other and make allegations, such as wettou and even you. we are all on the same side.

I learned long ago that, I'm not that old, that you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. If we take an attitude that based on fact, instead of emotion, and offer a little courtesy, we will get further. I've been in communication in one way or another with Dave for a few years now and he is a very understanding person. More than that, he is enthusiast just like us and wants nothing more than to provide the most bug-free, enjoyable experience that we expect.

I'll extend that to the rest of the classe group, even though I have only spoken to Tom and Alan Clark. The whole company takes great pride in the product and wants nothing more than to deliver the best product in the industry in this price range and above. they are not the enemy.

I don't excuse problems in the product, but to me, the difference with classe is that the people are tangible. They are small enough that I can communicate directly with the head of the company instead of some automated phone machine. Because of that, I treat them as humans. I understand it is a business transaction, but its kinda like buying from the ma and pa shop around the corner... they might be a little more expensive, but they aren't some corporate machine.

the truth is hdmi sucks as an interface. its terrible. the implementation is terrible, drm sucks, and every company has had issues with it. the larger companies aren't having issues with it today because they are one their 5th or 6 generation product but they did.

Classe can't release products that quickly. its not their business model. they kinda have to deal with the hand they were dealt. With that being said, it is still the best pre/pro I have heard so far and provides me with the most exciting surround sound experience I've ever experienced.

[RebelMan]

Perfection is not required. Only the ability to learn and a wish to improve.

Agreed. What proof do you have that this is not the case? It takes time to make things better. They are doing that.

I think car analogies doesn't really work here. Cars are routinely recalled if errors are discovered, on the other hand, those errors can kill the customers. As for the need of some customers vs. others. well, obviously you can do that, however, then the customer should be informed. We are sorry, so and so, your led issue is not on our todo list for the next 2 years...

Disagreed. It is the perfect analogy. More people are accustomed to the car industry than they are the high-end industry. Hence, it stands to reason that analogies involving cars be mentioned to illustrate the commonalities of manufacturing businesses.

They are overcharching for the board because they believe the customers to be loyal and not switch to a competitor.

What proof of that do you have? None. All you have is an opinion on it. Now we all know how you feel, it's time to move on.

[sikoniko]

Well it is clear that Sikoniko and RebelMan are drinking the Classé propaganda and are 100% sold to the company, You would think they either work at Classé or are shareholder except the company is not public. Maybe they get discounts :rofl:

Well it is very unfortunate that Dave N. or Tom are not participating because they could really help with taking care of customer problems.

I have been told directly, sorry nothing we can do about HDMi switching well guess what Sony ES, Panasonic, Marantz, Denon, Onkyo don't have HDMi switching issues.

I have a hate love relationship with my SSP-800, I love the design (box) and when it performs I am very happy and once the movie start I truly have a premier experience, but I wished that the bugs and features would be addressed in a more timely fashion.

No products is perfect and no companies are, but when you spend close to $10,000 on a processor you expect the piece to work 100% of the time.

you are a real instigator aren't you? :roll:

[sikoniko]

Fairnuf. But why can't they make it right the first time ?

you're the alleged programmer. what do you say to customers that ask you that?

[RebelMan]

I have a hate love relationship with my SSP-800, I love the design (box) and when it performs I am very happy and once the movie start I truly have a premier experience, but I wished that the bugs and features would be addressed in a more timely fashion.

No products is perfect and no companies are, but when you spend close to $10,000 on a processor you expect the piece to work 100% of the time.

There are pros and cons to everything. As I have stated before, I have had, and still have, problems with my SSP-800 but in the grand scheme of things they are tolerable irritants. The performance of the SSP far outweighs the issues. Unlike some people who enjoy the nit picking, I am able to put the problems into their proper perspective and not get too carried away with it. Until Classe' gives up on us there is no reason to get our noses bent out of shape.

[wettou]

There are pros and cons to everything. As I have stated before, I have had, and still have, problems with my SSP-800 but in the grand scheme of things they are tolerable irritants. The performance of the SSP far outweighs the issues. Unlike some people who enjoy the nit picking, I am able to put the problems into their proper perspective and not get too carried away with it. Until Classe' gives up on us there is no reason to get our noses bent out of shape.

Yes maybe but it would be nice if the upgrades were finally done two years in the making

[aarsoe]

Ok - facts. The SSP-800 is a nice sounding product, but the fact Of the matter is that we still have very trivial issues, as well as issues you could argue are Of more complicated nature, that still are not solved more than two years after initial release..
Now if we where talking about newly arised issues, then I could understand and respect it, but old ones is what is bugging me.
Apperently my right AS a consumer to ask if I can expect these issues to be fixed and by when is not valid. At least according to some people.

[mjb]

the truth is hdmi sucks as an interface. its terrible. the implementation is terrible, drm sucks, and every company has had issues with it. the larger companies aren't having issues with it today because they are one their 5th or 6 generation product but they did.

This is unfortuneatly very true, thats why I was hoping the HDMI 1.4 upgrade board, with newer technology/chips will greatly improve the SSP-800 HDMI experience, but I'm still yet to hear anything about this.

Classe can't release products that quickly. its not their business model. they kinda have to deal with the hand they were dealt. With that being said, it is still the best pre/pro I have heard so far and provides me with the most exciting surround sound experience I've ever experienced.

I agree, the sound is absolutely second to none. I would be happier to see slightly more frequent firmwares though, or have access to the Beta's so I know they're "working on it".

[Skyblue]

I find this statement really, really ignorant. A sour grapes attitude is when someone is bitter and no matter what anyone else does or says, they remain bitter. If someone tries to show them the positive side of whatever situation is ailing them, and they rebut everything with a negative comment then that is a sour grape attitude. Get the point? Good. Lets dance!

I don't think that they are negative all the time. Now you are labeling them, from your own presumptions. All that has been said is, that this product has had, and still have problems that other companies have solved. Why is that?

How about... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Ever read that one?

That is great, if you sell boxes. IBM once made exactly that mistake and so we thankfully have Microsoft instead. They are still like that. This is arrogance.

Classe' doesn't take that position but many companies do. Some people are beyond help no matter how hard they try to please them. Some people are unreasonable with their demands and no matter what the company does to please them they remain dissatisfied.

I do not think this is the case here. In fact, I think they love the sound of the product, but think the ui, and the firmware have some serious problems they did not expect. Like, the recommendation for getting a harmony one to go with it to switch profiles faster? Does it not come with a remote? Isnt switching profiles very high on the list of things people do with this product?

I am calling aarsoe's bluff in that I don't think he really dislikes the company, the product or the service. He's a long time member to these boards. He has read all the good and bad that has come this way yet he still bought the product. I believe he is just simply frustrated with his situation to set the thing up and he is venting those frustrations here. I genuinely felt for him and I extended an offer to help him and he rejected that offer. arrsoe has no other option but return the product because he refuses to be helped any other way. My guess is he is making a much bigger issue than there is. His refusal to return the product is proof of that.

If aarsoe didnt genuinly wanted to make this work, he would have just returned it. That is what it is proof of. And that really is what I want to too. Try to explain to classe that these are real problems from real customers. What arsoe and wettou is doing, is offering classe some insights into how to improve their product, and into what their customers expect. We expect the setup to be easy, and the product to work flawlessly, and if it doesnt, then that the problem is dealt with in a timely fashion.

[Skyblue]

actually, no. I think everyone has a right, especially customers to speak up when having an issue and that is not what I was criticizing you about. It is how you were going about it that bothered me.

Issues must of course be presented in a objective and orderly fashion.

first of all, we are all consumers. Classe does not participate on this board to my knowledge. They will respond to phone calls or emails though. I know for a fact Dave has taken time to respond to even wettou when asked questions.

I actually mailed them and asked them to. We'll see if anything happens.

What I don't appreciate is when we begin to attack each other and make allegations, such as wettou and even you. we are all on the same side.

I learned long ago that, I'm not that old, that you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. If we take an attitude that based on fact, instead of emotion, and offer a little courtesy, we will get further. I've been in communication in one way or another with Dave for a few years now and he is a very understanding person. More than that, he is enthusiast just like us and wants nothing more than to provide the most bug-free, enjoyable experience that we expect.

I'll extend that to the rest of the classe group, even though I have only spoken to Tom and Alan Clark. The whole company takes great pride in the product and wants nothing more than to deliver the best product in the industry in this price range and above. they are not the enemy.

I don't excuse problems in the product, but to me, the difference with classe is that the people are tangible. They are small enough that I can communicate directly with the head of the company instead of some automated phone machine. Because of that, I treat them as humans. I understand it is a business transaction, but its kinda like buying from the ma and pa shop around the corner... they might be a little more expensive, but they aren't some corporate machine.

the truth is hdmi sucks as an interface. its terrible. the implementation is terrible, drm sucks, and every company has had issues with it. the larger companies aren't having issues with it today because they are one their 5th or 6 generation product but they did.

Thats the point. The other companies did indeed fix these issues, even though the hdmi is one big suck. I dont think its easy, but it is fixable. I do not know how Rotel does it, but since they have the same owner I would suppose that the Classe engineers could just pick up the phone and ask. B&W group have a lot of engineering ressources, they tell us, when they release new speakers. This seems to be something that can be resolved.

Classe can't release products that quickly. its not their business model. they kinda have to deal with the hand they were dealt. With that being said, it is still the best pre/pro I have heard so far and provides me with the most exciting surround sound experience I've ever experienced.

Well, it really depends on where the problem lies. Is it in the hdmi hardware, or the software? Do they even make that part themselves or do they just buy it as a finished part?

[RebelMan]

I don't think that they are negative all the time. Now you are labeling them, from your own presumptions. All that has been said is, that this product has had, and still have problems that other companies have solved. Why is that?

No presumptions made, it is what it is.

That is great, if you sell boxes. IBM once made exactly that mistake and so we thankfully have Microsoft instead. They are still like that. This is arrogance.

You missed the point.

I do not think this is the case here. In fact, I think they love the sound of the product, but think the ui, and the firmware have some serious problems they did not expect. Like, the recommendation for getting a harmony one to go with it to switch profiles faster? Does it not come with a remote? Isnt switching profiles very high on the list of things people do with this product?

This is exactly the case. Finding fault where no fault lies. If his dealer came out and set him up this dialog between you and I wouldn't exist. The problems he raises are indeed problems but not directly his problems that he is primarily concerned with.

If aarsoe didnt genuinly wanted to make this work, he would have just returned it. That is what it is proof of. And that really is what I want to too.

No, again it proves that the issues he is complaining of are not the real issues he has. He is frustrated with one thing but venting that frustration through something else.

Try to explain to classe that these are real problems from real customers. What arsoe and wettou is doing, is offering classe some insights into how to improve their product, and into what their customers expect. We expect the setup to be easy, and the product to work flawlessly, and if it doesnt, then that the problem is dealt with in a timely fashion.

You assume Classe' is not aware of their responsibilities. From where I sit the the product is at the top of the class, does what I expect, has an easy setup and flawless audio. Hmm, to each their own, eh?

[wettou]

You assume Classe' is not aware of their responsibilities. From where I sit the the product is at the top of the class, does what I expect, has an easy setup...

Please, how much is Classé paying you that you can't even admit the problems!!

[sikoniko]

Thats the point. The other companies did indeed fix these issues, even though the hdmi is one big suck. I dont think its easy, but it is fixable. I do not know how Rotel does it, but since they have the same owner I would suppose that the Classe engineers could just pick up the phone and ask. B&W group have a lot of engineering ressources, they tell us, when they release new speakers. This seems to be something that can be resolved.

To my knowledge, the only way the problems have been resolved is in newer models, which are using newer parts. It is my hope that the new board was selected based on a number of factors, most importantly, performance.

I was shocked when I heard the price. Especially when you can go and buy a dvdo edge, or whatever the current product is - I haven't kept up with it, for around $500 - of course it doesn't support hdmi 1.4, if you need that.

As much as it will suck to pay $1500, I am pretty sure I will eventually get the new board. I want to keep my product current and ensure I will always get the latest firmware updates. I'll wait for the first reports to come back though. I won't buy into more of the same. I think we need to hold classe accountable for the performance of this new board. However, I do not bregrudge them for the price. Have you seen the price Meridian is charging for their HDMI solution? Or what Theta has done? It certainly could have been worst.

[sikoniko]

Ok - facts. The SSP-800 is a nice sounding product, but the fact Of the matter is that we still have very trivial issues, as well as issues you could argue are Of more complicated nature, that still are not solved more than two years after initial release..
Now if we where talking about newly arised issues, then I could understand and respect it, but old ones is what is bugging me.
Apperently my right AS a consumer to ask if I can expect these issues to be fixed and by when is not valid. At least according to some people.

At one point I was asked to create a thread to track issues. I really don't have the time to manage that now. If you think you do, why not create a new thread that lists in detail your issues, and how you can easily reproduce them? That way we can all confirm if we are having the same issues and can present them to classe in a reproduceable manner and get these issues resolved expediently? I think whoever starts the thread should be responsible in keeping it updated with all reported issues, not just his/her own issues. It would be a great way to track and monitor classe's ability to respond to us. What do you think? Up for it? Anyone?

[sikoniko]

Please, how much is Classé paying you that you can't even admit the problems!!

how much are you being payed to be annoying?

[Skyblue]

To my knowledge, the only way the problems have been resolved is in newer models, which are using newer parts. It is my hope that the new board was selected based on a number of factors, most importantly, performance.

I was shocked when I heard the price. Especially when you can go and buy a dvdo edge, or whatever the current product is - I haven't kept up with it, for around $500 - of course it doesn't support hdmi 1.4, if you need that.

As much as it will suck to pay $1500, I am pretty sure I will eventually get the new board. I want to keep my product current and ensure I will always get the latest firmware updates. I'll wait for the first reports to come back though. I won't buy into more of the same. I think we need to hold classe accountable for the performance of this new board. However, I do not bregrudge them for the price. Have you seen the price Meridian is charging for their HDMI solution? Or what Theta has done? It certainly could have been worst.

Well, I certainly wouldnt rule out a hardware problem. But then it should have been possible to replace the faulty boards with working ones, and recall the old ones for a fix. It certainly isnt the dsp's fault, so ...

I still find it odd, that no solution has been presented when clearly such solutions exists. There might be a natural logical explanation, who knows...

[Skyblue]

1. No presumptions made, it is what it is.

2. You missed the point.

3. This is exactly the case. Finding fault where no fault lies. If his dealer came out and set him up this dialog between you and I wouldn't exist. The problems he raises are indeed problems but not directly his problems that he is primarily concerned with.

But there are faults: Hdmi switching can be slow, setup can be difficult, updates doesn't solve the problems and are a hassle to install. Those are real problems.

4. No, again it proves that the issues he is complaining of are not the real issues he has. He is frustrated with one thing but venting that frustration through something else.

5. You assume Classe' is not aware of their responsibilities. From where I sit the the product is at the top of the class, does what I expect, has an easy setup and flawless audio. Hmm, to each their own, eh?

So, let me just summarize your post.

1. They are wrong.
2. You are wrong.
3. Theres something wrong with Aarso.
4. There are no real issues, its all made up.
5. Classe rulez...

Spot a pattern?

[RebelMan]

So, let me just summarize your post.

1. They are wrong.
2. You are wrong.
3. Theres something wrong with Aarso.
4. There are no real issues, its all made up.
5. Classe rulez...

Spot a pattern?

Yes. You read more into it than exists. Twisted little devil aren't you. :twisted:

[wettou]

how much are you being payed to be annoying?

A lot, at least I am not sold to Classé and am no preaching and believe Classé is the only thing out there

[RebelMan]

A lot, at least I am not sold to Classé and am no preaching and believe Classé is the only thing out there

Neither are we and yes there are alternatives. Some very good too. There's nothing wrong with having a passion for something. By what authority gives you the privilege to criticize that? You need to recall this is a Classe' forum after all.

[mjb]

So does anyone have any more (or insider) information on the upgrade board? I'd love to see a spec sheet and perhaps some leaked photos or something, and maybe a promise of faster switching and better compatibility, etc...

[Skyblue]

Yes. You read more into it than exists. Twisted little devil aren't you. :twisted:

Very much so

And in this case, very much spot on

[Skyblue]

Neither are we and yes there are alternatives. Some very good too. There's nothing wrong with having a passion for something. By what authority gives you the privilege to criticize that? You need to recall this is a Classe' forum after all.

I don't know where you are living, but in most of the western world, everybody has the right to question what ever they like. Jesus, Muhammed, Kim Sung Il, and even.. wait for it .. Classe. You dont actually need any permission from anyone.

Btw. do the hdmi switching work now?

[Skyblue]

So does anyone have any more (or insider) information on the upgrade board? I'd love to see a spec sheet and perhaps some leaked photos or something, and maybe a promise of faster switching and better compatibility, etc...

It is a secret

But we can be fairly certain it will work around the time that hdmi 1.5 arrives in a couple of years.

[wettou]

Neither are we and yes there are alternatives. Some very good too. There's nothing wrong with having a passion for something. By what authority gives you the privilege to criticize that? You need to recall this is a Classe' forum after all.

No one is criticizing your passion, just saying that Classé SSP-800 has flaws that need to be corrected. I also don't need any authority last time I check this is a FREE COUNTRY :T Yes and it would be nice when the problems that the SSP-800 owners are given satisfaction in a timely fashion