Classé SSP-800 Reviews

[wettou]

Yes, I definitely think we should spend more time listening and watching, than thinking about our next toy. Your system setup and room looks terrific from your pictures, and I'm sure it also performs extremely well :T

Congratulation Beden1 You did a complete 180 on Classé good for you. I am still waiting for them to release the upgrade and fix the software bugs!!

[beden1]

Great write up beden. However, as we've all found out, this place can be bad news for the pocket book. We all seem to feed each other's upgraditis.

Particularly:
That's probably the last thing I needed to hear.


Maybe if we each order a pair, we can get a deal. :W

I think if we keep our powder dry, deals will be coming as a result of this Global economic turmoil.

[beden1]

Congratulation Beden1 You did a complete 180 on Classé good for you. I am still waiting for them to release the upgrade and fix the software bugs!!

I decided it should be all about the music. And hopefully, the bugs will be exterminated in the near future.

[wettou]

I decided it should be all about the music. And hopefully, the bugs will be exterminated in the near future.

Good for you for me is is half SACD multichannel music (symphonies) and half home cinema so I just need patience :B

Some day in the not so distant future hopefully, Classé will release the SSP-800 fully updated to support new codec so I can see DTS Master Audio on the screen

[Classe4me]

SSP-800 layman's comparison

Hello fellow Classe gurus! I realize there is a post labeled "SSP-600 or SSP-800?" Unfortunately there really aren't any comparisons on there that help someone like me. Since the newness and hype of the SSP-800 has the most attention of Club Classe, I will pose the question here to those of you who have owned both that can relate to my questions.

In layman's terms, can someone tell me the differences I will notice between my SSP-600 and an SSP-800. Let me throw some information out that will help to give all an understanding of what I have, what I do, and what I am looking for my system to do.

The reason I am wanting to know this information is I get a lot of comments that I find attractive about the SSP-600 like it's warm, tube-like, forgiving, etc. The terms used for the SSP-800 are transparent (please give me YOUR take on that one), accurate, unforgiving on less than perfect recordings and DVDs, etc.

My equipment which most of you know is a CA-5200 amp, the SSP-600, a CDP-502, a JL Audio F113, a Sony BDP-350 (which I seldom use or care about), and am using Wilson Audio Sophia 2 fronts, Wilson WATCH 2 center channel, and B & W in-walls for surrounds (I run 5.1). My use is primary watching DVDs (not Blu-ray) to the tune of about 85% and maybe 15% on CDs or concert DVDs.

Please correct me if I am wrong but it almost seems as though the buyers of the SSP-800 are more interested in the 2 channel pre-amp performance than the HT aspects. I keep reading references and comparisons to the CP-500 and 700 as much as anything.

Knowing the source player I have, and the fact that I am running balanced analog XLR interconnects for 2 channel in bypass mode and also balanced for my H/T and am doing the DVD thing more than anything else, would I benefit from an upgrade?

I am not into spending money unnecessarily and I am very happy with the performance of my SSP-600. If the SSP-800 is THAT much better for the uses that I utilize it for then I may seriously want to consider upgrading. Every upgrade I have done with Classe so far I have been thrilled with. From the CA-5100 to the CA-5200 was amazing, the CDP-300 to the CDP-502 was a nice change given the amount of money I spent to upgrade.

I am beyond happy with my current set-up but you all can relate to how new things being "bigger and better" or the "latest and greatest" can lead to upgradeitis. We are all guilty of upgrading to things that we really and truly don't need and don't really make a hill of beans difference in a lot of cases.

I don't anticipate ever getting really involved in Blu-ray and will not in the foreseeable future change from my DVDs to anything else or will I go from CDs to MP3 or other formats.

Also, is it a safe assumption that the SSP-800 is heavily designed for Blu-ray processing or will be when the new Codecs are released?

Your advice and unbiased opinions would be appreciated greatly. Most of all I don't want to take a really good sounding processor and replace it with something that's purpose does not parallel my needs.

I realize that there is a lot of ignorance in this query but I will be the first to plead ignorance because I flat out do not know what the main purpose and benefit are of the 800 over the 600, especially at this point in time. I am trying to figure out if it will do things with my current media choices that my 600 won't do and can I realize an improvement.

I don't want any of this to be misunderstood by those of you who have purchased the SSP-800. I want those of you that have it and have had the others to try to help someone like me understand what I would be missing or if I would actually harm my system if I did make the change by being an avid DVD user.

I really hope that I was able to put this into words that make sense, does not insult anyone here, and helps put this into a perspective or analogy that I can understand.

I tend to use cars as analogies and even though a Lexus will get you to your destination in a super quiet, ultra-soft riding, isolated comfort, the BMW will get you there with a grin on your face because you like the twisty roads and the connection to the road and don't mind feeling the expansion joints. I know it's all opinion and some of us want that isolated magic carpet ride, and the others want that "ultimate driving machine" experience. And no, even though I have owned both, I don't own either of those brands at this time.

Thank you ALL in advance for your patience and understanding to the Classe guy that should have rode the short bus!

[sikoniko]

Hello fellow Classe gurus! I realize there is a post labeled "SSP-600 or SSP-800?" Unfortunately there really aren't any comparisons on there that help someone like me. Since the newness and hype of the SSP-800 has the most attention of Club Classe, I will pose the question here to those of you who have owned both that can relate to my questions.

I've had both, so I feel that I am qualified to address your questions.

In layman's terms, can someone tell me the differences I will notice between my SSP-600 and an SSP-800. Let me throw some information out that will help to give all an understanding of what I have, what I do, and what I am looking for my system to do.

I will probably be very bief, as we are cleaning the house in preperation for company tonight for a haloween party. I'll try to be "layman" as well.

The reason I am wanting to know this information is I get a lot of comments that I find attractive about the SSP-600 like it's warm, tube-like, forgiving, etc. The terms used for the SSP-800 are transparent (please give me YOUR take on that one), accurate, unforgiving on less than perfect recordings and DVDs, etc.

what does transparent mean? hmm.. uncolored? everytime I have done an upgrade, I've gotten that veil being lifted impression. With the SSP-800, I feel there are no more veils that could be possibly lifted. You get exactly what is on the CD. nothing more, nothing less. hence why good recordings sound good and bad recordings sound bad. garbage in, garbage out.

My equipment which most of you know is a CA-5200 amp, the SSP-600, a CDP-502, a JL Audio F113, a Sony BDP-350 (which I seldom use or care about), and am using Wilson Audio Sophia 2 fronts, Wilson WATCH 2 center channel, and B & W in-walls for surrounds (I run 5.1). My use is primary watching DVDs (not Blu-ray) to the tune of about 85% and maybe 15% on CDs or concert DVDs.

ok.

Please correct me if I am wrong but it almost seems as though the buyers of the SSP-800 are more interested in the 2 channel pre-amp performance than the HT aspects. I keep reading references and comparisons to the CP-500 and 700 as much as anything.

This is because of the thought that if a proc can do two channel well, it should be able to do HT well. do not be mislead. The ssp-800 is a pack-leader when it comes to HT and music.

Knowing the source player I have, and the fact that I am running balanced analog XLR interconnects for 2 channel in bypass mode and also balanced for my H/T and am doing the DVD thing more than anything else, would I benefit from an upgrade?

2 channel will be better, but dependent on tastes.

I've already watched the entire star wars series on SD DVD. the ssp-800 provides the most immersive experience for any movie playback I watch. again, garbage in - garbage out.

I am not into spending money unnecessarily and I am very happy with the performance of my SSP-600. If the SSP-800 is THAT much better for the uses that I utilize it for then I may seriously want to consider upgrading. Every upgrade I have done with Classe so far I have been thrilled with. From the CA-5100 to the CA-5200 was amazing, the CDP-300 to the CDP-502 was a nice change given the amount of money I spent to upgrade.

IMO it is "THAT" much better.

I am beyond happy with my current set-up but you all can relate to how new things being "bigger and better" or the "latest and greatest" can lead to upgradeitis. We are all guilty of upgrading to things that we really and truly don't need and don't really make a hill of beans difference in a lot of cases.

only you can provide your own justification.

I don't anticipate ever getting really involved in Blu-ray and will not in the foreseeable future change from my DVDs to anything else or will I go from CDs to MP3 or other formats.

famous last words... I don't ever anticipate...

Also, is it a safe assumption that the SSP-800 is heavily designed for Blu-ray processing or will be when the new Codecs are released?

no.

[beden1]

Classe4me,

Why I am interested in getting the SSP-800, is that it may be the first surround processor that offers the same quality of sound as does a good stereo pre-amp, but through all channels. That is why I was comparing my CP-500 with the SSP-800 in stereo, to make sure it sounded at least as good. I found that it does.

Before, I used my stereo CP-500 to listen to stereo, and a receiver for surround sound and HT, along with the CP-500 in by-pass for HT.

The SSP-800 will replace two of my components, and I'm hoping it does a better job than both combined.

I will now be able to get great sound through all channels in 5.2 for multi-channel SACD and for HT. The hi-def codecs when upgraded, will enable me to all gain the full benefit of blu-ray sounds.

I have never listened to the SSP-600. If you are happy with it however, then there is no need for an upgrade.

I hope my explanation helps.

[Gump]

Classe4me,

If you are completely happy and satisfied (and it sounds like you are) with your current set-up, then sit back, relax, press play, and enjoy yourself! Forget about the SSP-800, or any other upgrade for that matter, at least for now.

If you're bored one day and want to go into your dealer and have a listen to the 800 and see how it compares to the 600 then that's fine. But, there's certainly no hurry. It's not worth losing any sleep over and there's always time later for that upgrade urge.

I really like the sound of the SSP-600 and even toyed with the idea of taking advantage of people selling theirs on e-bay/audiogon to get their 800's and buying the 600 for a reduced price for myself. It's a great pre/pro.

I'm very happy with the 800, but would encourage you to take your time and go test drive the 800 yourself. Until then enjoy your current system----it's a great one!

[Classe4me]

Gratitude to all!

Sikoniko, Beden, and Gump, I just wanted to thank all of you all for taking the time to put your thoughts and time into answering my questions and giving me your opinions. Each of you had good information and your own take on things.

I almost do consider this hobby a bit of a disease and it really hits close to home on obsessive/compulsive behavior. I am mainly speaking for myself, but I think that most everybody can respect and relate to that.

It's not like this was a contest of who came up with the best answer or anything of the sort but Gump, I have to take your advice to heart and think that if I am totally satisfied with what I have, why mess with a good thing.

If a person has never tasted filet mignon ever in their life, then that sirloin might taste mighty fine and you may never know that the filet tastes any better. I think for the time being I will sit back, enjoy my current set-up, and play the waiting game for the future upgrades and also the depreciation for then the next "have to have" item comes out and people throw out the old on Audiogon or eBay in anticipation of the arrival of the newest, latest, and greatest.

For all of you that has the SSP-800, I sincerely hope you enjoy them and feel wonderful with your choice, knowing you have the very best sounding pre-pro for the money. I may very well join you someday but for now I think I will continue to enjoy my SSP-600 and hopefully not notice the flawed DVDs and recordings that I know I have been watching and listening to.

Thanks again all!

Tom

[wettou]

SSP-800 downconvert DD Tru HD and DTS MA to DD and DTS

So for those of you who thought you were hearing Dolby Digital Tru HD and DTS Master HD through your SSP-800, I have got bad news for you:

I spoke with Sony tech support in regards to Sony BDP-S550 and now I am totally confused.

What Sony mentioned is that unless you have a pre/pro or receivers that can decode Dolby Tru HD and DTS Master Audio it doesn't matter if your player can decode these format you will only get down converted sound to DD and DTS??? Sorry to pop your bubble but that is how it goes you need to have decoding in both which make more sense. So those of us who are waiting are right to wait fo a finished product.

[sikoniko]

So for those of you who thought you were hearing Dolby Digital Tru HD and DTS Master HD through your SSP-800, I have got bad news for you:

I spoke with Sony tech support in regards to Sony BDP-S550 and now I am totally confused.

What Sony mentioned is that unless you have a pre/pro or recivers that can decode Dolby Tru HD and DTS Master Audio it doesn't matter if your player can decode these format you will only get down converted sound to DD and DTS??? Sorry to pop your bubble but that is how it goes you need to have decoding in both which make more sense. So those of us who are waiting are right to wait fo a finished product.

I have land to sell you in chernobyl. interested? :T

[wettou]

I have land to sell you in chernobyl. interested? :T

Yes you and I can dance:B

[hifiguymi]

So for those of you who thought you were hearing Dolby Digital Tru HD and DTS Master HD through your SSP-800, I have got bad news for you:

I spoke with Sony tech support in regards to Sony BDP-S550 and now I am totally confused.

What Sony mentioned is that unless you have a pre/pro or recivers that can decode Dolby Tru HD and DTS Master Audio it doesn't matter if your player can decode these format you will only get down converted sound to DD and DTS??? Sorry to pop your bubble but that is how it goes you need to have decoding in both which make more sense. So those of us who are waiting are right to wait fo a finished product.

I think there was some miscommunication somewhere. That is not the case. If the BD player as the decoding in it (and it's turned on), it is sending a multi channel PCM to the preamp (or receiver). The preamp won't convert that into a DD or dts signal. It just won't, and can't, happen. Someone with that combo will get all of the available audio codecs at full resolution.

Eric

[wettou]

I think there was some miscommunication somewhere. That is not the case. If the BD player as the decoding in it (and it's turned on), it is sending a multi channel PCM to the preamp (or receiver). The preamp won't convert that into a DD or dts signal. It just won't, and can't, happen. Someone with that combo will get all of the available audio codecs at full resolution. Eric

So would it work also if I only have multichannel analogue, I don't have HDMi on my pre/pro? :E

I guess Sony techs are wrong then? Who to trust?

[garak]

So for those of you who thought you were hearing Dolby Digital Tru HD and DTS Master HD through your SSP-800, I have got bad news for you:

I spoke with Sony tech support in regards to Sony BDP-S550 and now I am totally confused.

What Sony mentioned is that unless you have a pre/pro or receivers that can decode Dolby Tru HD and DTS Master Audio it doesn't matter if your player can decode these format you will only get down converted sound to DD and DTS??? Sorry to pop your bubble but that is how it goes you need to have decoding in both which make more sense. So those of us who are waiting are right to wait fo a finished product.

The tech is wrong. I have the BDP-S550, and it have been decoding TrueHD and dts-HD MA and sending it as PCM to my SSP-800. A number of boards have also confirmed this, and the the 550 will also decode and send these audio formats via analogs.

You should know by now that talking to the techs at Sony is not the best way to get info. If you talk to 2 different ones, you'll get two different answers.

[hifiguymi]

So would it work also if I only have multichannel analogue, I don't have HDMi on my pre/pro? :E

The BDP-S550 is pretty complete as far as the analog outputs are concerned and yes it will work. Just make sure you spend time and set the player up properly. I can't attest to how good the BDP-S550 sounds using the analog outputs (I've only used the HDMI output) but you will get every available audio codec.

I guess Sony techs are wrong then? Who to trust?

The people at Sony's (or most of the big CE companies) tech support are not always "techs". Most of the time they are reading scripts from a computer and don't really know the ins and outs of all of the technologies that are in the marketplace. Trust us veterans here and at your local Classe dealer.

Eric

[beden1]

The tech is wrong. I have the BDP-S550, and it have been decoding TrueHD and dts-HD MA and sending it as PCM to my SSP-800. A number of boards have also confirmed this, and the the 550 will also decode and send these audio formats via analogs.

You should know by now that talking to the techs at Sony is not the best way to get info. If you talk to 2 different ones, you'll get two different answers.

Now I'm confused, and it wouldn't be the first time! 8O

I thought you could only get Dolby True HD through PCM, and not dts-HD MA, even through HDMI?

[garak]

Now I'm confused, and it wouldn't be the first time! 8O

I thought you could only get Dolby True HD through PCM, and not dts-HD MA, even through HDMI?

There has been a lot of confusion about the Sony BDP-S550, due in no small part to the vagueness on Sony's own website.

However, based on my own experience, and information on other boards, it appears that the original specs for this player are true. It can decode both TrueHD and dts-HD MA to PCM and send it via HDMI.

[wettou]

The BDP-S550 is pretty complete as far as the analog outputs are concerned and yes it will work. Just make sure you spend time and set the player up properly. I can't attest to how good the BDP-S550 sounds using the analog outputs (I've only used the HDMI output) but you will get every available audio codec.

The people at Sony's (or most of the big CE companies) tech support are not always "techs". Most of the time they are reading scripts from a computer and don't really know the ins and outs of all of the technologies that are in the marketplace. Trust us veterans here and at your local Classe dealer. Eric

I see so these guys are no better than telemarketers, that is pathetic and then you wonder why people ditch them! How do I have to set it up?

Is LPCM and PCM the same uncompressed audio then?

[hifiguymi]

I see so these guys are no better than telemarketers, that is pathetic and then you wonder why people ditch them! How do I have to set it up?

It's not just Sony. All of the big CE companies to it.

Is LPCM and PCM the same uncompressed audio then?

Yes.

Eric

[hifiguymi]

Now I'm confused, and it wouldn't be the first time! 8O

I thought you could only get Dolby True HD through PCM, and not dts-HD MA, even through HDMI?

There haven't been many players that decode dtsHD Master Audio so I can see why you thought that. The first player to do it was Denon's DVD-3800BDCI. The PS3 was the second when the firmware was updated to v2.30. Now we have the Sony BDP-S550, the Panasonic DMP-BD55, the Samsung BD-P2500 / BD-P2550, and the Marantz BD8002 (which is the same as the Denon) that do. The new Pioneer BDP-51FD and Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD will with a firmware update sometime soon.

Eric

[style]

Hallo garak,

with the SSP800 and if you go via hdmi the Sony S550 can give you all format (codec-sound)..for what I was you are correct.

You the ssp800 and the S550 too. Or?

well from the S550 vr. a Panasonic 50 or 55?? i'm pro Sony.
Hare you happy with the Sony? I go have my ssp800 in the next day...in i will buy the Sony S550.


Is a good choice?
please a feed back Omar

p.s. I have too b&w 803D-htm2D than 805s-Pioneer Kuro....

[garak]

Hallo garak,

with the SSP800 and if you go via hdmi the Sony S550 can give you all format (codec-sound)..for what I was you are correct.

You the ssp800 and the S550 too. Or?

well from the S550 vr. a Panasonic 50 or 55?? i'm pro Sony.
Hare you happy with the Sony? I go have my ssp800 in the next day...in i will buy the Sony S550.


Is a good choice?
please a feed back Omar

p.s. I have too b&w 803D-htm2D than 805s-Pioneer Kuro....

Hi Omar,

Yes, I do have the Sony S550 and the SSP-800. With the Sony S550 connected to the SSP-800 via HDMI, you will be able to listen to all of the codecs, including TrueHD and dts-HD MA.

As far as choosing between the S550 or the Panasonic 55, I like the user interface better on Sonys and that is why I chose the S550. I know the Panasonic has gotten good review for upscaling DVDs compared to previous Panasonic blu-ray players. However, I haven't read any head-to-head comparisons between the S550 and the 55. Audio quality should be identical as each player is just functioning as a transport in this case.

I am happy with the S550. Movies load relatively quickly, blu-ray picture quality is excellent.

Just one note, when setting up the S550, make sure to set the BD Audio Setting to "DIRECT" (Mix is default) and Audio (HDMI) to "Auto." Otherwise, if you have the BD Audio setting to "Mix," then you will only get Dolby Digital or DTS core.

It looks like we have very similar setups. :T

[wettou]

Thanks Eric :T

[beden1]

Garak and Hifiguymi - thanks to both of you for the clarification and help.

Do you find much difference between Dolby True HD and dts-HD MA?

[hifiguymi]

Garak and Hifiguymi - thanks to both of you for the clarification and help.

Do you find much difference between Dolby True HD and dts-HD MA?

The only movie that I know for sure that has both Dolby TrueHD and dtsHD Master Audio is Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I don't have that disc and have never listened to it to compare. It seems like there was another movie out that had both, but I can't remember what it is. To compare two different movies is impossible because of the surround design, music, etc are all different.

Maybe someone else here has tried it out.

Eric

[Gump]

...Just one note, when setting up the S550, make sure to set the BD Audio Setting to "DIRECT" (Mix is default) and Audio (HDMI) to "Auto." Otherwise, if you have the BD Audio setting to "Mix," then you will only get Dolby Digital or DTS core.
:T

Are the settings the same for the Sony PS3?

Their manual is vague at best...

[sikoniko]

Neil/Gump,

Being that you are a Mc' person, but have moved the proc' of your system over to Classe, would you share your thoughts on the future with your system? Do you consider your amps done? Any thoughts of a full Classe system? You'd probably break even if you went the audiogon route.

Also, what would you say to a die-hard Mc' person about Classe's SSP?

[garak]

Are the settings the same for the Sony PS3?

Their manual is vague at best...

Sorry, I don't know. I've never used a PS3. If I recall correctly, I think the PS3 will decode TrueHD no matter what, which will work fine with the SSP-800. I think the PS3 can only bitstream dts-HD MA, which is of no use because the SSP-800 won't be able to decode dts-HD MA until the dual DSP board is released.

Eric, I'm sure you know better than me what the PS3 is capable of. Can you correct me if I'm wrong.

[wettou]

If I recall correctly, I think the PS3 will decode TrueHD no matter what, which will work fine with the SSP-800. I think the PS3 can only bitstream dts-HD MA, which is of no use because the SSP-800 won't be able to decode dts-HD MA until the dual DSP board is released.

Correct also I have read bitstream sounds better than LPCM

[sikoniko]

Correct also I have read bitstream sounds better than LPCM

you like drama, don't you? there is a whole thread on AVS about it. there is no difference other than a the codec showing up on the proc if it is bit-streamed.

[hifiguymi]

Sorry, I don't know. I've never used a PS3. If I recall correctly, I think the PS3 will decode TrueHD no matter what, which will work fine with the SSP-800. I think the PS3 can only bitstream dts-HD MA, which is of no use because the SSP-800 won't be able to decode dts-HD MA until the dual DSP board is released.

Eric, I'm sure you know better than me what the PS3 is capable of. Can you correct me if I'm wrong.

The only thing the PS3 bitsreams are the legacy formats. The PS3 decodes Dolby Digital +, Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD HR, and dtsHD MA internally and sends them out as a multi channel PCM. So a PS3 works perfectly with the SSP-800.

Eric

[beden1]

you like drama, don't you? there is a whole thread on AVS about it. there is no difference other than a the codec showing up on the proc if it is bit-streamed.

I had read about the same impressions on other sites that there does not appear to be much of a difference between the two, if any. That's why I'm thinking that I may just keep my Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-Ray that only does Dolby True HD, at least until some time has passed and there are solid reviews on some of the new players.

I don't want to spend money if there is no clear benefit, as many/most of the movies seem to have Dolby True HD. I just wanted to learn if anyone heard any differences using the SSP-800 as their pre-pro?

[hifiguymi]

Correct also I have read bitstream sounds better than LPCM

That is totally false. Depending on the components, it could sound better either way. With Denon's DVD-3800BDCI player it has sounded better doing the decoding than bitstreaming with every piece I've done the comparison with. The entry level Sony's (the BDP-S550) are the other way with the bitstreaming being better on the same components. The quality of the decoder, any DSP applied, and the quality of the components in a BD player seem to have a big impact on how good the end performance is.

All transports are not created equal either. I just delivered an SSP-800 and the customer said he used his Oppo DVD player to play CDs (using only the digital output) and didn't like it and when he switched to his Meridian 808 (again using only the digital output) the difference was profound. He didn't really like the Oppo playing SACDs either even though the disc has that much more info on it.

Eric

[sikoniko]

All transports are not created equal either. I just delivered an SSP-800 and the customer said he used his Oppo DVD player to play CDs (using only the digital output) and didn't like it and when he switched to his Meridian 808 (again using only the digital output) the difference was profound. He didn't really like the Oppo playing SACDs either even though the disc has that much more info on it.

Eric

Do you know if the person level'd the db's between both devices when comparing?

you also "just delivered" so this person hadn't used both as a transport into the SSP-800 then, right? or he/she hasn't had it long enough to be able to come to a conclusion.

It is possible to have discrepencies between transports, but the DACs in the SSP-800 are supposed to compensate for most of these issues that have plagued other Proc's.

I'd chalk it up to placebo effect until enough information was accumulated to understand how the test was run.

[wettou]

you like drama, don't you? there is a whole thread on AVS about it. there is no difference other than a the codec showing up on the proc if it is bit-streamed.

You got it I am the drama Q...:B

[hifiguymi]

Do you know if the person level'd the db's between both devices when comparing?

Yes he did.

you also "just delivered" so this person hadn't used both as a transport into the SSP-800 then, right? or he/she hasn't had it long enough to be able to come to a conclusion.

Yes he did use both as a transport as I said in my post. He has had it for about two weeks so it is in its break in period, but that shouldn't change anything since the SSP-800 is the common factor. This isn't a case where there are minor differences, it's huge.

It is possible to have discrepancies between transports, but the DACs in the SSP-800 are supposed to compensate for most of these issues that have plagued other Proc's.

So you concede that there are differences in transports?

The DACs won't / can't compensate for differences in transports. If anything would it's the DIR (digital input receiver) and the DSP engine. The DACs just convert what they are given. With that said, the DSP can only do so much. It's sort of like video scaling. I know this is an extreme example, but if you start with a 480i signal and scale it to 1080p it will never look as good as a 1080p source. If the info is not there, or is a poor representation of it, the best DSP can only do so much.

I'd chalk it up to placebo effect until enough information was accumulated to understand how the test was run.

Why don't you try it yourself? Get more than one device that can play a CD that has a digital output and compare. I bet you will be surprised at how big the differences are.

Eric

[sikoniko]

error correction or jitter could be factors, but I don't buy that its a profound difference with everything being equal. I do concede to subtle differences.

"need input" -johnny 5.

[sikoniko]

btw, I have directly compared a Sonos (which isn't subject to jitter or error correction) to the oppo for cd, and unless I was looking for a difference, I would be hard-pressed to find one.

[hifiguymi]

btw, I have directly compared a Sonos (which isn't subject to jitter or error correction) to the oppo for cd, and unless I was looking for a difference, I would be hard-pressed to find one.

Why do you say the Sonos isn't subject to jitter? Every time you have a digital connection or interface you are subject to jitter. If the signal being sent to he Sonos is in a compressed form (MP3, AAC, WMA Lossless, Apple Lossless) it has to get converted to PCM before it leaves the unit. Jitter can happen there. There is also a driver that has to output the digital PCM to the preamp. That is where a lot of errors happen.

I know your rack doesn't lend itself for easy connection of temporary components, but see if your dealer will let you borrow a Classe CD or DVD player and listen to that.

Eric

[sikoniko]

If you don't believe me, will you believe John Atkinson?

Zounds
The ZP80 is limited to the normal low sample rates, but it also seems restricted to 16-bit music data. I have a large number of 24-bit AIF and WAV files on my Mac mini; while I could browse these files with the Controller, attempting to play them either gave a "Corrupt File" error message, or the file immediately switched to Pause. But when used to feed 16-bit/44.1Hz digital data to my high-end Mark Levinson No.30.6 DAC, the ZP80 performed flawlessly. I was hard-pressed to hear much of a difference between the Levinson driven by the ZP80 receiving Apple Lossless Compressed or AIF files, and the original CDs from which I had ripped the tracks, as played back by the Classé or Ayre players feeding the DAC the same data via AES/EBU links (footnote 3).

http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/1006sonos/

[sikoniko]

I mean no disrespect Eric, but did you participate in the A/B, or is this heresay?

Perhaps the customer needs to find a way to justify the cost of the 808?

If the Oppo truely was poor at SACD, do you believe Kal would use it as his primary player in his main system?

[Kal Rubinson]

If the Oppo truely was poor at SACD, do you believe Kal would use it as his primary player in his main system?

Let me point out that you cannot get SACD from an ordinary digital coax output. When using the 980 with the SSP-800, one would be using the analog outputs (with the Oppo's decent but uninspiring analog stages), via S/PDIF (which precludes the use of SACD) or via HDMI (with OPPO's conversion to PCM since, I believe, the Classe cannot handle DSD). Of these, only the HDMI is suitable and the Oppo is pretty good.

My use of the 980 with the Meridian 861 is via a modification that outputs SACD (and other formats) via 3 S/PDIF jacks and not any of the Oppo outputs.

Kal

[sikoniko]

Let me point out that you cannot get SACD from an ordinary digital coax output. When using the 980 with the SSP-800, one would be using the analog outputs (with the Oppo's decent but uninspiring analog stages) or via S/PDIF (which precludes the use of SACD).

My use of the 980 with the Meridian 861 is via a modification that outputs SACD (and other formats) via 3 S/PDIF jacks and not any of the Oppo outputs.

Kal

True enough, so if the person was not using the Oppo with HDMI or analog cables to the SSP-800, but digital via an optical cable or SPDIF, he was not hearing SACD, but the CD layer. good point Kal.

And if he/she was using analog cables, the performance would be disappointing... most likely.

[hifiguymi]

Come on fellas, I know better than that. The Oppo is hooked up with HDMI so he can get SACD without a bundle of cables (he has the 981 and it does DSD to PCM conversion). Since the 808 doesn't have HDMI he is using a coaxial digital cable on that. But if digital is all the same that shouldn't make a difference, right (this is in reference to CD playback only since the 808 doesn't do SACD)?

I wasn't there but plan to be on Monday. I know this customer really well and trust his ears. What he found doesn't surprise me at all. I will report on what I hear when I can and make sure the levels are matched. Again, he did that already but I will double check.

I know that you don't mean any disrespect, sikoniko, but all digital sources don't sound the same. I've been around a lot of gear in my life (I've been in the A/V business for over 15 years) and they are all different.

Eric