DIY Dolby Atoms Speakers

[bostonmurf]

Just wondering if anyone had considered designing a dolby atmos side speaker that points to the ceiling and bounces off for the height/ceiling effect. either that or anyone created a nice ceiling speaker? im hoping to go down the Atmos route in the future but dont want to go the non diy route now I'm running a statement setup.

[---k---]

CJD has his HT surrounds - The Marsala. I don't think he has a web page or a thread dedicated to them. The info is sort of buried in the Garnash and Ansonica threads. His is a little different. Try searching on Marsala. I skimmed the Ansonica thread and found at least a picture for you.

[bostonmurf]

awesome! thanks Ryan, ill take a look into it.

[Steve Goff]

Just wondering if anyone had considered designing a dolby atmos side speaker that points to the ceiling and bounces off for the height/ceiling effect. either that or anyone created a nice ceiling speaker? im hoping to go down the Atmos route in the future but dont want to go the non diy route now I'm running a statement setup.

Atmos enabled speakers ( the ones that fire upwards towards the ceiling) include a circuit that tries to fool the ear into hearing the sound as emanating from above. This is covered in an Atmos patent.

[bostonmurf]

Atmos enabled speakers ( the ones that fire upwards towards the ceiling) include a circuit that tries to fool the ear into hearing the sound as emanating from above. This is covered in an Atmos patent.

so probably best to go with ceiling mounts instead Steve? has anyone had good results with ceiling speakers or could recommend something that would work well with the statements?

[russ.will]

From what I've read, Dolby Atmos employs a head related transfer function into 'tricking' the mind into 'seeing' the sounds overhead. As I read it, whilst the standard allows for a speaker with the requisite frequency response to be used, the EQ curve is so extreme, it's far easier to build a speaker with a nominally flat response and let the Atmos post-processing implement the EQ curve. KEF for instance, quote a +/-3dB frequency response for the speaker above, whilst the Atmos curve is -2dB circa 3kHz, +5dB circa 7kHz and -7dB at 10kHz. I imagine even the most accomplished crossover designer might struggle with that!

From other reading, I get the feeling that the EQ curve employed is very much a best fit of the average human ear, so the effect may vary from listener to listener and may even be quite sweetspot. The Atmos speakers produced thus far, all seem to be (and the KEF R50 above is an example) a smaller, sealed version of the smallest speaker in the range (say the R100), employing a 20deg tilt forward from the horizontal on the baffle. Which isn't to hard to conceive, even for this complete DIY noob.

Certainly the demo I had was somewhat 'meh' and neither had the perceived height, nor accuracy of image steering that I can achieve with my Kreisel QFH. The other thing is, I've yet to hear whether DTS UHD or Auro will allow for such speakers, or mandate ceiling mounted channels, or indeed make use of traditional front height channels. It seems to this user, that the format with the greatest hardware backward compatibility will probably gain acceptance quickest, for obvious reasons, although the WAF factor of doing away with ceiling/wall mounted speakers may also be very relevant.

It all smacks of a potential format war and we all know how the industry loves one of those to the detriment of the customer.....

This was quite interesting reading.

[bostonmurf]

Thanks Russ, thats really fascinating info. Ive not had chance to hear the atmos or the Auro-3d yet but am very interested in it, maybe something to watch for a couple of years to see where the format ends up. would be nice to have the total immersion experience during a movie though

[russ.will]

I look forward to that too. I was really surprised how much the front heights expanded and increased the precision of the front surround sphere. Certainly a far more immersive experience than adding the rear channels.

Like you, I can wait until the dust settles!

Russell

[kevinm]

I heard a demo last night using the Pioneer At is enabled speakers and was fairly blown away at the added height/depth of the imaging. The speakers themselves were typical commercial speakers, but the Atmos part was fairly incredible. Very immersive.

Can't wait to see how this plays out. Looking forward to using it myself.

[dar47]

Had a chance to see Guardians of the Galaxy in a premier Atmos enable theater in Calgary and wasn't impressed with it. I think the sound tracks are going to need a lot more work to get me to ever consider adding any more height speaks in my basement. With most sound tracks still just 5.1 it's much to do for nothing. If they come up with some real positioned discrete sound it could be cool but how many times in a movie is that required. Maybe just me but not a big fan of 3D either.

[bostonmurf]

yes 3d definitely isn't for me. even if i didn't have to wear the glasses i wouldn't go for it. however i do want to see a movie in Atmos, supposedly gravity is incredible in it. i guess it'll be good for some and not for others although I'm a bit shocked a sci-fi movie like Guardians didn't make the best use of it. probably a massive learning curve for the sound guys too.

[kevinm]

I wonder if it is different in the home vs the theater? I know for me, ever since I went the DIY route, I haven't been impressed with any theater sound system

Best to mention the demo I saw was using specific Dolby content, so it might be like Boston said - sound engineers have work to do!

[Carl V]

I have seen numerous films in ATMOS...and they have been quite good & engrossing.
One of the First ones was the Hobbit film....with Atmos & the special 30FPS it was quite an
experience. Many have been at our 3D IMAX theater.How this transfers over the home I have
my doubts. Most of the population will not jump on board.

[JoeAngelicchio]

Waking an older thread. Would the tweeter and mid from the Statements work for an Atmos speaker? Would match sound wise. Just a thought. Small enclosure mounted up to the ceiling or on top of floor speakers.

[kevinm]

I haven't tested it myself, but you might be able to build a box with just the TB mid range and use that. Atmos height speakers really don't need much above 10khz, so I think the tweeter might be overkill.

[jwanck11]

I am going to build atoms speakers using 4 - 4" Faital drivers. http://www.parts-express.com/faitalp...-ohm--294-1121

I am not sure a ribbon tweeter would produce the desired effect??

[kevinm]

Are you thinking 4 per cabinet? Are you mounting on the ceiling or on top of a surround?

[---k---]

I haven't been keeping up with the Atmos stuff. But I believe there are some guys at AVS using the Diysoungroup.com Volt coax as Atmos speakers.

[jwanck11]

Are you thinking 4 per cabinet? Are you mounting on the ceiling or on top of a surround?

Yep, 4/ cabinet @ 120 watts @ a 20 degree angled baffle

They will be mounted on top of the LR and SB speakers.

I think the boxes will be very simple and easy to build and I hope to have them done in a day or two.

I am currently building stands for the Finalists (about half way through) and will be building 2 ported 18" subs here shortly - waiting on drivers and plates to arrive - and then will get onto the Atmos speakers.

I will start a build thread once I get there...

[JoeAngelicchio]

Looking forward to this!!! :W

[TEK]

If I were to go for Dolby Atmos or other formats based on 3d sound from above me I would go to some length to get roof mounted speakers, especially if doing a DIY build.
I imagine that there must be a lot of stuff going on to get a good result when your approach is to use a roof as a sound reflector. A direct source must be a lot easier to get a good result from, and at the same time have a lot less uncontrolled bi-effect from second level reflections and so on.

Also, all cinemas with Atmos I have been in have roof speakers. For me that is a clear infication that those roof-reflection solutions is purly for the home/amature marked and probably NOT the area that the produsers add their effords when trying to figure out the best sound image.

Just my 5p...

[dar47]

I'm with TEK on this one anything in the ceiling can be in ceiling coax 6" or 8". If your doing side height then those angle 2ways look good. Bouncing anything is a compromise with the added expense, why bother when your getting the new receiver or pre-pro already.

[Kal Rubinson]

Atmos enabled speakers ( the ones that fire upwards towards the ceiling) include a circuit that tries to fool the ear into hearing the sound as emanating from above. This is covered in an Atmos patent.

Why try to fool the ear? Since the sound is bounced off the ceiling, it is subject to the same HRTF as sounds that originated there.

[Renron]

Bouncing the sound off the ceiling is a "work around" type of compromise. Think about it for a moment, if the sound is bouncing off the ceiling why not just put the speakers there to begin with? Using reflected sound WILL seem like the sound stage is larger, but it's also, by it's nature, diffused. Diffused sound bounces off the walls too, what is the time differential from ceiling bounce and wall bounce to your ears? Depends on where you sit in relation to the speaker(s). What about rebound off the floor / furniture?
Jon Wick in Atmos w/7.2 sounds amazing, even with my tiny (soon to be replaced) Overnight Sensations MTMs. Center channel is a Frodaddy's clone.

Put the speakers on the ceiling, point them at your ears, let the receiver do the Atmos mix programming. You wouldn't bounce the ball playing catch, would you?

Ron

[BobEllis]

I suspect the commercial bounce it off the ceiling designs are an attempt to get more speakers past the decorator's approval than anything. For the reasons outlined above, having the Atmos speakers at ceiling height is probably the best solution acoustically, but if you're already having trouble getting a 7.1 system past the less audio inclined member of the household, integrated Atmos surrounds get you there with minimal visual impact. We cannot abide function following form for the sake of domestic bliss, now, can we?

[jwanck11]

My atmos drivers arrive Monday - ahead of the sub drivers, so they will have priority. Looks like I will be listening to an atmos system here shortly!

Boston - did you get a start on yours?

[TEK]

I fully agree with bob here.
As I stated in my previous post

[I would go to some length to get roof mounted speakers

There are of course a lot of very good reasons not to go to those length.
From issues with the lead designer (typically your wife/partner;-) to practical issues related to running wires or mounting stuff into the roof.
Just the practical stuff is of course important from a commercial point of view.
If you compare having a couple of speakers placed on top of (or otherwise in close relations to the mains) compared to mouting a couple of speakers in the roof - you do not need to think long before realizing that you are more than average interested in sound quality if you go for the latter...
And, as I'm absolutly more than avarage interested I would go to some lenght to get roof mounted speakers.
I do however have 100% understanding for anyone not.

Another point is that many with home theater rooms (full or partial) often have some toof threatment that of course would make front placed atmos speakers unusable.