new member, 5.1 diy speaker: any suggestion??

[magik1109]

hi everyone, i'm new over here and new to this diy speaker thing...
i would like to build a set of 5.1 to go with my new receiver.
the receiver is a sherwood newcastle r-972. here is the specs: http://www.sherwoodusa.com/site/newc...ivers/R972.php
for thes build i will have the help from a friend which has built a couple of set and knows what he is doing.
i have a budget of around 1300-1500$ for parts. i want towers for front main.
i would also like to have a 10" or 12" in side of each towers.
what i have in mind for now is the zaph audio kit. the za5.5 or za5.3 for front alone with the center and tm version for rear zaph kit with both towers with a sub and amp at bottom of them pointing side. i would add another pairs later on for the 7.1
would this kit be good? or maybe you guys have any other suggestion.
any help is greatly appreciate.
thanx

[Generic George]

Zaph's stuff seems to be highly regarded and there's a lot of bang for the buck with those kits. His 5" driver seems to be an excellent one for the money.

The first thing people will tell you is that you should NOT try to do something like changing the speakers, without a lot of experience so you know how those modifications change things.

Adding a large woofer to one of those kits is not as simple as just tossing one in the case and making a few minor mods to the crossover. If you want to do something like that, you might be better off building separate subwoofer boxes and putting the za5.5/3 on top of them.

I would worry about the subwoofer later or build the 5.3 rather than the 5.5. A good sub is going to run you $300-$500 on it's own, especially if you get a plate amp for it and that is more than you are going to want to spend given your budget.

You are looking at about $800 for the speaker kits, if you go with the 5.5, at least $500-600 for cabinets and then probably at least another $100 in various parts (stuffing, wire binding posts, ports, etc...) there's more stuff than you might think at first.

Good luck with the project, I'm in the middle of trying to make my first set as well.

[ruseriousclark]

I've been in your position before, and whether you know it or not your biggest hurdle at this point is knowing which questions to ask.

Most here are going to direct you to some light required reading and reference material, which I'd advocate as well. Here is where I would start...

http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy

There are others, but Paul does a great job of guiding newbs to DIY and includes other suggested resources.

Now that is out of the way, some questions for you and some design suggestions.

.1 in the "5.1" is a LFE or sub-woofer, whether or not you knew this already was unclear from your post.

If you are wanting to build towers with subs inside as you described below that is a .2 configuration. There are significant build, construction, placement requirements to incorporate a sub into a tower (compartmentalization, bracing, port configuration, compensation for boundary loading etc.).

The Zaph's design is excellent or you can chose from several of the smaller TM or MTM designs on this and other sites and build a compartmentalized bookshelf in a tower of the LR's. Swope HT for example, and go with a more cost efficient sub option than the SP10 and buy two. BOM on the Swope HT is about ~$700 for drivers and XO components. That leaves you $600 or so for two subs and plate amps. To get in around budget you'll have to make some compromises here or go for a cheaper 5 channel design.

You could use these and get in around your target price:

(2) RSS265HF-8

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-442

and

Bash 500W Digital Subwoofer Amplifier

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-752

If you go sealed, mount the amp in a separate comparmtent not part of the sub enclosure air space. A knock on the bash is its not heavy enough to not flex under pressure.

Wired in parallel.

Cabinet construction for the LRs (incorporating subs) is going to be significant, otherwise you should be able to stick pretty close to the original designs.

[magik1109]

ok thanx fot the replys.
I have 1300-1500 budget for parts NOT including the mdf to construct cabinets. this is for speaker parts only.
yes i knew for the .1 lol just used to write this hehe. ok i want a 5.2
Now i dont want to just toss in a sub and change the cross over design.
i would just add a compartment under the speaker tower for the sub. like if they were build seperatly and then glued together. would that work?? as for the sub and amp choice, thats exactly what i was looking for ruseriousclark. i looked at the 12" too. would i have to buy 2 amp or just 1 amp will be enough to drive both sub?
thanx

[DeathMonk]

Sub under speaker will work fine.. I wouldn't glue them together, though--but that's your choice.

You would need 2 plate amps.. I think you could get away with the bash 300 with the 10"ers. 12" ported you could even do the 300 (sealed 500).

[magik1109]

now what the volume of the box should be if i go with this sub: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-442
and sealed or ported?
thanx

[ruseriousclark]

After some rough math, with a $1500 budget you should be able to get this done.

(4) 5.2 kits and a 5.3c from Zaph w/o cabs is going to run you ~480-500.

(2) Dayton Audio RSS265HF-4

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-460

or

(2) Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-464

and

(2) Bash 300W Digital Subwoofer Amplifier

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-750

I'd build them sealed if you go 10", ported if you go 12".

As for enclosure size, etc. You'll need to run it through a program like UniBox to get optimal dimensions and tweek it from there. I think that 265HF can get by in something as little as 1.2 cuft., but don't quote me on that.

[oneplustwo]

I'm building a sealed subwoofer using Zaph's archived design for what it's worth. You may have seen my sub amp thread... Might be something to consider if for no other reason than to keep everything in the Zaph family!

[magik1109]

thanx ruseriousclark, but i will run either 5.3t or 5.5t for LF. 5.2 seems too smal for front speaker. as for the sub, my amp says no less then 6ohm, how should i run them? 4 or 8ohm? i will go sealed if box can be smaler

have a link oneplustwo?

[oneplustwo]

http://www.zaphaudio.com/archives.html

8th project down.

[Generic George]

thanx ruseriousclark, but i will run either 5.3t or 5.5t for LF. 5.2 seems too smal for front speaker. as for the sub, my amp says no less then 6ohm, how should i run them? 4 or 8ohm? i will go sealed if box can be smaler

have a link oneplustwo?

According to Madisound's descriptions for the kits, both the 5.2 and the 5.5 go down to 52 hz and you'd be crossing it over at 80 hz to a sub regardless of which one you build.

What the extra drivers should be getting you in the 5.5 is much greater efficiency (greater SPL for fewer watts), not significantly lower bass performance. But it's unclear from the descriptions if this is actually the case. He talks a lot more about controlling the vertical directivity than he does the efficiency in the 5.5 description.

[magik1109]

how about 5.3, whats the difference between za5.3 with za5.3t. 26$ difference and looks like the kit include the same thing

[Generic George]

how about 5.3, whats the difference between za5.3 with za5.3t. 26$ difference and looks like the kit include the same thing

Crossovers look different in the pictures. the 5.5 tower has two pieces for each of the crossovers. Quite possibly they differ in order to take advantage of the larger internal volume with the Tower speaker vs the MTM arrangement.

[ruseriousclark]

thanx ruseriousclark, but i will run either 5.3t or 5.5t for LF. 5.2 seems too smal for front speaker. as for the sub, my amp says no less then 6ohm, how should i run them? 4 or 8ohm? i will go sealed if box can be smaler

have a link oneplustwo?

Why would you build a tower configuration of the 5.2,3, or 5?

You're already building a seperate sub enclosure into your cabinet for the LRs. That and you're not running these full range since you'll be crossing them over to your subs well above any point whereby they would begin rolling off in sealed bookshelf configuration.

Go with the 5.2 (or 5.3 if you want) but puting them in a tower offers no practical benefit other than complicating your already complex cabinet build, that I can see.


As to your other question the 5.2 should be 8 ohm nominal and 5.3 are 4ohm.

Either way your receiver should handle it.

Check out this thread:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=38411

Discussion on using proaudio amps to drive subs. Might save you some cash.

[magik1109]

how much room does the sub need to have behind it in the enclosure?

[magik1109]

anyone?

[Generic George]

how much room does the sub need to have behind it in the enclosure?

AFAIK, the overall volume is more important than the specific distance. I've never heard that brought up as a question before. So I don't think it's a major issue, because I've read enough threads that I'd probably have seen it crop up if it was. A minimum of x2 the depth of the driver, sounds reasonable to me. But I have no specific information one way or the other.

You can play around with this sort of thing with winISD.