Doing my first HT build...

[krips]

Hello. What I'm wanting to do is spend as little as possible to get a DIY theater (temporary until I've saved up some money to upgrade). This is what I've planned on getting so far, so could you please comment and make suggestions? I'm from Canada, so I would like to get everything I will need at once, if possible . I am also wondering what other tools etc. I will need to make speakers. I already have a table saw and router. Thanks .

Receiver:
Yamaha RX-V459 = $169

Subwoofer:
Dayton DC250-8 10" Classic Woofer = $23
--> Dimensions (HWD) = 45"x12"x12" (Ported 2.5 cf @ 13Hz)
--> Material = 1" MDF w/ second sheet on front baffle
--> Ports = Two 3"x1", each 36" long, top firing

Speakers:
5 x Tang Band W3-593SF 3" Driver = $44
--> Dimensions (HWD) = 11.6"x7.8"x5.3" (Sealed .138 cf)
--> Material = 3/4" MDF

Binding Posts:
5 x Dayton BPA-38NI HD = $41

Speaker Wire:
Dayton 14AWG 100ft. = $45

Jasper Jig:
Jasper Circle Jig 200 & 400 Combo Pack = $50

[---k---]

There are a couple threads on tools, and it has been discussed to death. Check the link in the Mission Accomplished, Archived Threads post.

If you're that tight on budget, skip the Jasper jig. You can with a little effort make a circle jig from scrap wood.


This hobby is tough to do cheaply. I really think that you're better off starting small and building up rather than having crap speakers. The drivers listed are really low quality, entry level. I wouldn't be happy with a 3" TB driver as a fullrange. (or did you plan to add a tweeter and design a crossover? if that is the case, forget about it. designing the crossover is not as easy as made out to be).

If you build decent mains, you can use a phantom center. The surrounds can be lesser quality if you insist on surrounds. Check out Zaphaudio.com for his latest budget minimonitor.

You might also want to spend a little more on the receiver, because many of the DIY designs are 4ohm and require a decent receiver to handle them. Though, my Pioneer 1015tx is handling my 4ohm- Khanspires very respectable. But the 1015tx is the top of the Pio lineup.

Spend a tick more and build a decent speaker that you can add to or move to surround, or at least give away later. Same with the gear. Trust us, you'll be happier in the end.

[krips]

Thanks for replying. Okay...well here's what I was planning on ending up with within the next 12 months:
2x Statements
3x Statement Centers (2 as surrounds?)
Outlaw 970Pre/Pro & 7075 Power Amp
Monster Cable Reference HTS 3600 MKII Power Conditioner
2x 15" LLT Subs
Behringer EP2500 Amp
Behringer DSP1124P Feedback Destroyer Pro

Would you suggest that I just get my pre/pro, amp, and 3x center statements first? What do you think of these choices? Will the 7075 run the statements and centers well?

Added: Actually it looks like it would be cheaper to just build a pair of statements right now. I suppose that would be better?

[DeanP]

You sounded like me about three years ago, needed something to start off with until I got enough to get the big guns!
Do you have any system at all?
I wouldn't get the Monster conditioner, there are more affordable alternatives.
Here is an example. Tripplite I got mine online in Canada for a lot less than the suggested retail. Try Tiger.ca ($98)
Do you have any HDMI components? Cause maybe you should wait until you get the pre/pro that has HDMI inputs. A quality reciever that has all channels output to go to a power amp would be a good start. The Yammy rxv 661 has HDMI and all channel output.
Speakers are always a question of affordability. I started with two mains, added a sub, then a centre channel. Then I built the rest.
So I would start with a reciever as above and power amp; build two mains and a sub and continue on as money comes in.

[Dennis H]

Those W3's have an attractive price but I don't think they will play low enough to cross to a sub with only .5mm Xmax (cone excursion). I'm with the others in that I'd try to buy stuff now that's good enough that you don't need to throw anything away. The latest version of Ryan's receiver is the Pioneer VSX-1017XV available for $369 at Onecall. It will drive the Statements just fine.

You could start with 5 of the TB W4-1337SA used in the Statements. Run them fullrange like Jed's F4 in his Lineup Series thread. Jed uses crossover components to flatten the response of the W4 but the Pioneer has a built-in EQ that would probably work well enough for that so you could leave the crossover out. Then when you save up enough for the Statements, you can reuse the W4 drivers you already have.

For a sub, it's hard to beat the Dayton RSS390, either the HF or HO version depending on how big a box you want to build. It's a top-quality driver and the only thing it gives up is it doesn't have the Xmax of the TCSounds drivers. With the price increase at TCSounds, the RSS390 looks like a better deal -- you can buy several of them for the same price as one TC. Start with one now (which will be pretty dang good) and add more if you need them.

You'll also need a sub amp as the receivers won't power a sub. The Behringer EP1500 is a good choice.

So, all-in, I'm suggesting you spend about $1000 if you can scrape that much together. Maybe less if you can find the receiver or sub amp used. The good news is you won't have to discard any of those components and can upgrade the speakers to a full-on Statement system as you save more money.

[peter_m]

I support what Dennis said. Go for it in stages and do it in such a way that you reuse what you already purchased in the previous stage. Another option is to start with the front left and right channels and a sub only. Add the center and rear as your budget allows. TB W4 will be a better choice then the W3... For the Sub, you could save by going for the RS315 instead of the RS390.

Other options for the speakers are: http://zaphaudio.com/ZBM4.html and http://zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html

[krips]

You sounded like me about three years ago, needed something to start off with until I got enough to get the big guns!
Do you have any system at all?
I wouldn't get the Monster conditioner, there are more affordable alternatives.
Here is an example. Tripplite I got mine online in Canada for a lot less than the suggested retail. Try Tiger.ca ($98)
Do you have any HDMI components?

I will try that instead. I've never ordered from tigerdirect before, but I live in canada...they're alright?
I don't have any HDMI components. I'm rather poor, seeing as I just got out of university after 3 years and decided to become an electrician. I'm working a second, minimum wage job, which is strictly for funding my new HT. I currently have about $1200 for it. Here's my current 'theater' ops:
- $190 CRT TV (Non Flatscreen)
- Nintendo Wii
- PS2
- $80 Pioneer DVD Player

The latest version of Ryan's receiver is the Pioneer VSX-1017XV available for $369 at Onecall. It will drive the Statements just fine.
You could start with 5 of the TB W4-1337SA used in the Statements. Run them fullrange like Jed's F4 in his Lineup Series thread. When you save up enough for the Statements, you can reuse the W4 drivers you already have.
For a sub, it's hard to beat the Dayton RSS390, either the HF or HO version depending on how big a box you want to build.
You'll also need a sub amp as the receivers won't power a sub. The Behringer EP1500 is a good choice.

So, for my sub: Dayton RS390, spikes, and an EP2500
Speakers: 2x W4s and
3 pair of binding posts

Besides cables and a preamp/poweramp, is there anything else I need to start?

[---k---]

I don't understand what you're doing for speakers. Are you planning on just buying the TB W4 driver and putting them in a box? Do you have a completed design picked out yet? There is more to a speaker than just a single driver in the home audio world.

[Dennis H]

I don't understand what you're doing for speakers. Are you planning on just buying the TB W4 driver and putting them in a box? Do you have a completed design picked out yet? There is more to a speaker than just a single driver in the home audio world.

Well, in the case of the W4, all you need is a driver in a box. You need to do some EQ, either with Jed's passive F4 design or with the built-in EQ in the receiver. Granted, a single fullrange driver isn't all that great but, with the W4 it isn't terrible either. When more money is available, the W4 can be recycled in either one of the Statement designs or one of Jed's bigger Lineup designs.

[Coconutout]

he's gonna build the Statements. i have a pair playing music right now and BOY am i glad i built these!

[krips]

Yeah, I'm planning on building the statements. Right now I actually have a couple bookshelf speakers from a 'boombox' that I'm using. They're an upgrade from those 1"x3" in my TV anywho. :P
So...receiver + statments + sub first I guess, right? Then I get a power amp, center, and surrounds after?

[cjd]

Yeah, I'm planning on building the statements.

Yes, but *why*?

I need to get Jim as my publicist!

C

[---k---]

Yes, but *why*?

I need to get Jim as my publicist!

C

Yeah, hasn't anyone seen the distortion measurements on a ribbon? :B

We're just kidding and maybe a little jealous. I'm actually really looking forward to hearing the Statements this weekend. I think it is the whole reason to drive 4+ hours to Iowa. I just wish the room was better suited to them.

[DeanP]

If I remember correctly, I bought the Tripplite from here. directdial

When you go to get cables, get them from here****
[edit by moderator, forum policy prohibits such links, please use PM or email instead]
It is a good start as Cat Cables would be a better choice but when money talks...
As for a power amp, I used to have a Rotel Rb-956ax but upgraded to a 6 channel Chip amp. Here Gainclone
I found the gainclone cleaner and yet powerfull and besides, you are an electrician.

EDIT: oops! forgot about the link! ops:

[Jed]

Well, in the case of the W4, all you need is a driver in a box. You need to do some EQ, either with Jed's passive F4 design or with the built-in EQ in the receiver. Granted, a single fullrange driver isn't all that great but, with the W4 it isn't terrible either. When more money is available, the W4 can be recycled in either one of the Statement designs or one of Jed's bigger Lineup designs.

Makes a lot of sense, Dennis.

Lineup F4 then R44 then Statements, if that's what you heart desires. Do it in steps and just keep building it up as you get closer to the final goal.

Jed

[Jim Holtz]

Yes, but *why*?

I need to get Jim as my publicist!

C

Chris,

Come to Iowa and find out *why*. :rofl:

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

Yeah, hasn't anyone seen the distortion measurements on a ribbon? :B

We're just kidding and maybe a little jealous. I'm actually really looking forward to hearing the Statements this weekend. I think it is the whole reason to drive 4+ hours to Iowa. I just wish the room was better suited to them.

Ryan,

Actually, I'm bringing the Mini Statements and Todd Premo is bringing his Statements. He just got them together this past weekend. However, if Todds aren't enough, you're welcome to come to my house and listen before heading back to Chicago.

Honestly, I'm not sure how they'll sound unless Doug has been able to get a cube wall or something to put behind the speakers. The open transmission line sounds wonderful if there's something to reflect the sound from but without a rear wall, it's unknown. I guess I'll find out.

Jim

[cjd]

Chris,

Come to Iowa and find out *why*. :rofl:

Jim

I'll be waiting to see them up for sale after when you realize you really should have built something else... At least... for the venue you'll be in!

[Brian Bunge]

Wow Chris! That's harsh!

BTW, did you get my PM this morning?

[Jim Holtz]

Wow Chris! That's harsh!

Chris is just joking. We're having a little friendly pre-show banter. He is correct that the theater might not be a very good venue for speakers like the Statements and Mini's. We'll know soon.

Regardless, the event will be a heck'va lot of fun and we'll get to see and hear some great speakers. Not to mention, seeing old friends and making new ones.

Jim

[cjd]

:lol:

Hopefully Jim knows I was laughing as I typed that. I think there's a lot of curiosity around how well they'll do with the huge open space. Could be awesome, could be disappointing. Who knows, really. But we'll find out. I've no doubt whatsoever that they're a superb sounding speaker - hell, I almost want to go BUILD me some, then I remember... it's more fun wringing my hands and tearing my hair out trying to get good measurements and messing with my own stuff. I like the process as much as (or more than) I like listening to the results.

Got the PM. Just busy today, and thinking.

C

[Brian Bunge]

Chris,

I've seen your avatar before. Trust me, we don't want you pulling out any more hair!

[cjd]

Chris,

I've seen your avatar before. Trust me, we don't want you pulling out any more hair!

You're calling *me* harsh?

yeesh!

[Brian Bunge]

I keed, I keed!

[---k---]

We're having a little friendly pre-show banter.
Jim

I feel the need to trash talk a bit.... resist....

[cjd]

I feel the need to trash talk a bit.... resist....

Oh hey now, you get to uphold my (lack of) reputation! :P

[krips]

Does anyone know of any DIY 5-channel + amp kits?

[cjd]

How DIY do you want to go?

You could look at UCD modules, though they're more of an "assemble the pre-assembled parts" - like putting together a computer, really. You could build up a stack of chip-amps. Twisted Pear's "Joshua Tree" relay attenuator can be stacked - I think Russ said it could go four attenuator boards per controller OK (that's 8 channels single-ended). I think they also offer a sweet little LM3886 board that sould give you ~60W into 4ohm. Other options there too. If you run a regulated power supply a single monster 600VA 25-0-25 trafo should handle 5 channels of chip-amp. Even unregulated it'd probably be fine, actually.

C

[kingpin]

That's it. I'm bringing Project Overkill.
Oh yeah, they are not living anymore.

Anyone want to take a detour and pick me up in Toronto.lol

Mike

[Hdale85]

There are also the SKA amp kits. They have been praised a lot as to one of the best sounding amps ever? True I'm not sure but its something I've been looking at and Class A/B and they don't require enourmous heatsinks and do 150watts ber channel at 4/8ohms thats the GB150 kit. www.ska-audio.com

[---k---]

That's it. I'm bringing Project Overkill.

Mike

Based upon not listening to them in the same room at the same time and several months apart, I say that my Khanspires are better than your RS 3-ways! Did you see my latest listening impressions? My Khans convey emotion! Yours, sheeesh! I mean, come on, how articulate can a 7" midrange driver be? And lets talk about the slow bass from those 10" woofers. Ughhhh....

:rofl:

Have we derailed this thread enough?

[krips]

The hypex looks interesting and simple. About $1400 to do a amp which will power 5 speakers and a sub....sounds good to me. That is, of course, if my line of thinking is correct.

[cjd]

At that price you could get something like the Outlaw gear, already assembled, in a nice box, with factory warranty...

[Hdale85]

But then you don't get the joy of building it your self And who's to say that the UCD modules wouldn't sound better???

[joecarrow]

Aside from having to buy the power supply, you could buy two channels first and judge for yourself if it's worth the investment to finish it.

[krips]

Its actually cheaper to buy the stuff from BMM Electronics though, shipping included. I don't know about multiple shipments...
Is there a website or something that explains how to do it piece by piece? If I could get 5x100w and 1x500w @ 4o I'd be happy .

[Dennis H]

Hmmmm, is it my imagination or has this thread changed? We were talking about $169 receivers and now we're talking about $1400 amps.

[krips]

Hmm...yeah, what the heck? :P