Home Theater + behringer question

[indygreg]

great forum i just found. i have tried to search and research before posting but i apologize if i am covering something that has been discussed. i am about to kick off a home theater and am deciding speakers. i have the following things going for me:

- i am designing the theater and build into walls, columns, etc. i should have 18" of depth behind the acoustically transparent screen.
- i am pretty handy with cabinetry and have a wood shop.
- i know how to drive a soldering iron.
- i have run pro sound and built soundsystems including designing and building basic ported enclosures with horn loaded compression drivers for top end.
- i am not stupid with my money but i can afford a few thousand for good components.
- i have a friend who is very proficient with ease and other software for time alignment and tuning of electronic xovers.

what i am considering:
- for the front LCR i wonder if a high quality 1" compression driver with a couple 7" drivers similar to the klipsch ultra thx would be good. the controlled vertical dispersion should make dialog clear. i was reading about sandmanx's home theater on avsforum and he ditched his martin logans in favor of the klipsh and felt it was just more pronounced and intelligable.
- the other option i considered was to do a line array for the lcr since it gives tight vertical dispersion thus less ceiling reflections. i wonder if others are using these in a theater.
- rather than the usual dipole for the surrounds which try to create the illusion that sound is coming from everywhere i thought about doing an array of speakers around the room. in a real thx theater they specify that the surround speakers have to be install every N feet. i wonder if i could do a series of natp's around the room. if so i might need to modify it to 8" of depth if that would work. maybe someone has another interesting idea for a surround speaker (did someone mention they had done a custom column speaker).

thanks for any thoughts here.

greg

[ThomasW]

And the question is?

[indygreg]

sorry if i was not clear. the questions were:

- "for the front LCR i wonder if a high quality 1" compression driver with a couple 7" drivers similar to the klipsch ultra thx would be good." that means to ask if anyone has experience with compression drivers and if that might be well suited to a dedicated theater setup where i am trying to control vertical dispersion in order to minimize reflections.

- "the other option i considered was to do a line array for the lcr since it gives tight vertical dispersion thus less ceiling reflections. i wonder if others are using these in a theater." this means, are others here using line arrays in home theaters and if so do they believe it is a good fit due to the vertical dispersion or for instance do they not work as well for movie dialog because the dipole smears the dialog with the rear reflections.

- "i wonder if i could do a series of natp's around the room. if so i might need to modify it to 8" of depth if that would work." this means to ask if natp's can be modified to 8" of depth and mounted on a wall.

- "maybe someone has another interesting idea for a surround speaker (did someone mention they had done a custom column speaker). " this means to ask if there are any suggestions for diy surrounds given the resources and abilities i outlined and if i correctly understood that someone had done a custom column with a surround built in.

does this help?

greg

[ThomasW]

Well it's more clear. You have to choose between horns and a line array. These are completely different animals, so comparing them is an apples vs oranges situation. It would be helpful if you had some experience with them.

I don't know if you can find or create good horns that are 8" deep. One can made monopole line arrays that are 8" deep. And the NatP's can be made 8" deep, if you increase the height to obtain the required volume.

Speakers can be built in columns.

I realize these answers aren't very specific but your questions are painted with a pretty wide brush. As a result we'll probably need to use process of elimination to get to the best design for your needs.

[indygreg]

ah, i think i see where i caused some confusion. i am considiring a double 7" + 1" horn for the LCR similar to this.

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=739

your right, i wish i had some experience with line arrays. i am familiar with compression horns from doing pro audio and obviously movie theaters use these. not real hifi but maybe good for clean clear dialog. i have a suspicion that one of the things that makes a dipole line array sound so good for music is what would make it not work as well for LCR. namely that it will reflect sound off the walls to give it a very wide, ambient sound. i guess i hadn't thought of a monopole line array.

my question about the natp wzs for the surround channels. sounds like it might make a good surround speaker and i can modify it's dimensions to fit my needs as long as i keep the volume the same.

greg

[ThomasW]

Dipole line arrays are great for music or HT (they're what I use) but they aren't going to work well with 18" of clearance. As a matter of fact any system you chose will need a special crossover given the proximity to the boundry.

You can't change the width of the NatP unless you use a special crossover with modified baffle step and this doesn't exist.

[indygreg]

what would be the downside of a monopole line array for me?

to what extent does it simplify the design of the speakers if i use a dsp like the driverack or behringer and have it all set up by my friend with ease? would the baffle compensation issue just appear to him as a response curve abnomality that he would eq out?

g

[ThomasW]

what would be the downside of a monopole line array for me?

There is no downside since dipole isn't a viable option

to what extent does it simplify the design of the speakers if i use a dsp like the driverack or behringer and have it all set up by my friend with ease? would the baffle compensation issue just appear to him as a response curve abnomality that he would eq out?

The goal for most people is to use the least amount of EQ possible. Baffle step itself is a form of EQ. So you'd be EQing to take out the effects of EQ. Doesn't make sense to me...

Were you to make something like a line array with planar mid/tweeters with a line of midwoofers, or make a cone/horn system, you could use a generic active crossover (those don't have baffle step). This however doesn't solve the problem for the effects channels.

[indygreg]

Baffle step itself is a form of EQ. So you'd be EQing to take out the effects of EQ. Doesn't make sense to me...

thanks. what i meant was that i could do the natp's for the effects channels, modify their depth and biamp them with an active xover/eq dsp.

line array for the mains sounds really interesting to me. i will do some digging on the forum for projects doing a monopole linearray to understand more about optimum box volume for the planars, etc.

g