Diving in? Scanspeak/Focal?

[Audiophiliac]

Although I work at a high end A/V shop as a custom installer and have access to Wilson, B&W, Martin Logan, Krell, Classe, VTL, etc....I also am a DIY kind of person. I mostly dabble in my car system because I dont yet own a home to start filling with gear and speakers.

But I have been thinking of doing a simple 2 channel rig just for kicks and a project. So I thought I might give a shot at building a set of speakers.

The design I have in mind is a simple TM 2-way. Either a tall, slim floor stander (think Totem, Zu Druid, etc) or a similar stand mounted monitor.

As far as drivers go, I really like the Scanspeak mids. They get used in various forms in Wilson and Krell speakers which are my 2 favorites. And the Focal inverted dome or the SS Revelator ring tweeter are both very nice in all the instances I have heard them.

So I am leaning towards doing something with the Scanspeak 7" and either the Ring tweeter or the Focal inv. dome. Is there a kit available that already uses this combo? Or am I going to have to put effort into designing my own crossover network and cabinet? I am not opposed to this, but if there is already a proven design, I am happy to save myself some time and effort.

So lets hear some ideas. I wouldn't be against using other drivers like Dynaudio or Seas or similar. I do consider myself a pseudo-audiophile in my own right, and am very picky on what I like and dont like in a speaker. Given my preference for the Wilsons and Krells, it is obvious that I like dynamic and transient speakers that stage and image solidly and are lightning fast and accurate.

[TacoD]

Several designs with Scanspeak can be found at the website of the Dutch distributer of Scanspeak www.audiocomponents.nl. But you have to consider these as a starting point. Those x-overs are not the greatest you can come up with, some tweaking is needed.

See also this thread http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=19794

[Audiophiliac]

Thank you. I look at all of those and see a couple that look like what I want as far as cabinet design goes.

Am I going too far on my first build to design my own cabinet and crossover? I can get enclosure volume recommendations for certain drivers. Build an enclosure, design a crossover based on which drivers I go with, and put them in, yes? Is it really difficult to get it right?

I really just want a super simple box. Period. No funky angle baffles or TLs or anything. A rectangle works for me. Sealed would be ideal, but I know you can get more out of a 7" driver in a ported enclosure so that doesnt deter me from doing a vented design. I like the proportions of the Ultimo cabinet. Maybe a bit narrower, but thats what I am going for.

So here is a rough idea of what I would like to use:

Scanspeak 18W-8531G revelator 7"

Focal Audiom TD5 or TC120 TD5 or Scanspeak D2905-9900 or D2904-7000 tweeter. (any recommendations?)

I have heard variations of both tweeters, and would probably not prefer one over the other. I havent heard the Revelator tweeter however. Just the ring, and the Focal. Both sound very good. The Focal I think is less expensive. Those ring radiators are spendy buggers.

And as far as crossover design, I assume there is software out there that can do all the dirty work?

Thanks for all the input, and keep it coming. Or just tell me to buzz off and buy a pair of Wilson Sophia already

[ThomasW]

Having worked in a high-end gallery with Jon, I can understand you leaning toward the drivers used in high-end systems.

However.........

I can assure you the drivers used on the sticky thread projects are every bit their equal in performance, and cost significantly less.

Jon and I run high-end gear at home. So the Modula designs, the NatP, etc are voiced on Ayre preamps and Ayre power amps along with Palladium monoblocks.

If you don't have the test gear, software, etc, needed to make on baffle measurements of the drivers your choose, then your SOL when it comes to properly designing the crossover.

Designing a crossover is a VERY tricky thing to do. You must know how to design a crossover to use the software. The software doesn't design the crossover for you....

Look at the first post in any of Jon's sticky threads. If you're able to make the kind of measurements seen there and generate a proper crossover then you're good to go. If what you see in overwhelming, then build one of the sticky designs...

[BobEllis]

No preference for either Focal tweeter? I guess that says something about them. The Audiom is a real spendy bugger, too - even at Zalytron's current sale price.

I am very happy with my TC120-TD5 / 6W4254 speakers (not to throw another option at you.) On the other hand, although they have a slightly different timbre, an MT with Dayton RS150S and Seas 27TDFC is its equal in imaging and detail.

I haven't heard the Scan tweeters or Audiom, though.

As for doing your own crossovers the first time at bat, why not if you are willing to do the research needed to understand the design choices? You'll get better results using measurements of your own drivers in your enclosures and designing the crossover for that data than taking the manufacturers' data. If you do that and understand how to use your software you'll be ahead of most first time DIY crossover designers.

Yes, it is that hard to get it "perfect" but you can get pretty good results being careful. Each designer has his own preferences and priorities. I'll give up a little on axis FR smoothness if I have to for even power response, but others go for flat on axis at all costs.

Even good measured response does not guarantee a good sounding speaker. If you run your woofer too close to its breakups or the tweeter crosses in too low, the results aren't likely to please.

[Dennis H]

If you want to keep it simple and cheap for the first project (highly recommended), I'd build the Modula MT in the stickies using the prefab PE enclosures. You could do the whole project in a weekend for the price of one of those Scanspeak tweeters. A little bit of cash, a little bit of woodworking, a little bit of soldering -- then take them into the store and see how they compare to commercial 2-ways. You (and your friends) may be amazed. Then, if you enjoy the whole process, you can try your hand at more ambitious projects -- bigger speakers, do your own design, etc.

[TacoD]

I also have to add that the Modula line-up are great projects. The tricky part is already done by experienced people. Also I can understand that you want to try it yourself, and my experience is that with paper cones it's more easy to tune by ear. Although you have to measure, good simulation software and experience to make something like the Modula.