M8ta - Listening Impressions??

[ColoradoTom]

Hi All:

Since this is my first thread I wasn't sure if I should start a new one or add to the previous thread regarding the M8ta (the Avalon looking version). Hope I'm not causing problems my first time out!!

My question is to the people that have taken on the challange of building a pair of these (including Jon) - what are your impressions of the results. I've pretty much scanned all the threads and haven't been able to get much of a handle on what people think sound wise.

I've received the plans (thanks Jon!) and I'm getting ready to start building jigs and making the big purchases in both time and money, so does anyone have an opinion on how the current version w/Seas Excel Millenium & Dayton RS225 stack up??

Thanks for any help,

Tom

[JonMarsh]

Well, too bad you haven't heard MarkK's two way- it would be easier to describe in those terms. (no, I'm not trying to be difficult, just being my normal slightly obtuse and obfuscating self).

I.E., the Millenium Excel is a well known and popular tweeter- it has a slightly richer sound, with a bit more top octave air than an RS28a, but that may not be entirely natural- i.e., many folks like some kinds of tweeter distortion.

Please remember that the CAD plans are with the Hales Transcendence tweeter; you may need to adjust the hole and routing sizes slightly depending on your tweeter choice.

With the low crossover point, integration between woofers and drivers isn't an issue. I have an alternative crossover design around 1200 Hz which makes life a little easier on the tweeter, but which gets closer to the problematic area in the RS225 (1.5 kHz near field notch and energy storage). I'm considering re-measuring the drivers in box now that I have Praxis and taking one more pass on the crossover design. (it might be only very minor tweaks, realistically).

Compared with MarkK's two way with the RS2225 and RS28a, the bass is deeper and more extended; because it's tuned in the mid 20'a, it won't necessarily play louder at 50 Hz than a sealed box system, but it has a tapered slow anechoic roll off which tends to sound pretty flat in room without being heavy, as long as they're setup with golden mean ratios from the walls (alternatively either 1.4 meter from rear wall and two meters from side wall, or reversed). I expect that due to the cabinet strength and weight, they'll have subjectively better intertransient silence, because the enclosure will be "talking" less due to the heavy wall construction and damping. But since I haven't heard them side by side, that's just speculation based on based experiments with different construction styles. I've done the 8" book shelf thing, too (see my three part AudioXpress series in the Autumn of 2003), but that speaker even had 1-1/2 thick side walls and 1-3/4" thick front panel.

Keep in mind these were designed to be "wideband" but only at moderate SPL (~103 dB max). Above that they'll start to fall apart, like any midwoofer based two way.

~Jon

[Brian Bunge]

Jon,

Keep in mind that you could easily build Mark's 2 way as a tower for extended bass response. I know that you know this, but probably just forgot to mention it!

[JonMarsh]

I've suggested that to several people- would be a heck of a lot easier to build a conventional tower than the M8ta style cabinet, might work almost as well. But, you've gotta thump the front panels and side walls on these to believe how dead they are compared to conventional cabinets.

~Jon

[ColoradoTom]

Jon & Brian

Thanks for the input and I'm well aware that the enclosure design could be modified for easier construction as well as the possibililty of slightly better performance in some areas, but part of the excitement in this project is the challange of the construction.

I currently have Dunlavy SC IVA speakers and they are classic big rectangular boxes. I have always had a problem with their performance in the midrange and have often wondered if a simple two way with better components would be a better solution. One major problem with the Dunlavy design is there is a microscopic sweet spot that is literally like wearing headphones. Anything off axis is just OK sounding - so you get this situation where you think things sound pretty good and everyone else in the room is wondering what you're talking about. What I heard with a pair of Eclipses years ago was a radically different presentation where the speakers not only seemed to disappear, but the sweet spot was two to three people wide and the music had more of an emotional spirit. I plan on using these speakers with Quicksilver M135's and a conrad-johnson Premier 3 preamp - the impedence seemed pretty bengn so I'm not anticipating any problems.

By the way, Jon - I like to layout a true to scale rendering of a woodworking project prior to any cuts or jig creation so I've got a 2' x 4' sheet of MDF with a side & front view created and I really like this design. I also clamped together 4" of MDF/HDF to get a feel for what I'd be dealing with with the front panel. The thing must weigh close to 40 lbs and is pretty darn dead to a knuckle test!!

[JonMarsh]

Well, you've got a good idea of what you're getting into now, it sounds like. I'm quite familiar with the Eclipse and you can see in my driver testing thread how the tweeter performs on frequency response and distortion- it's quite respectable for it's time, but not in the same category as the newer driver designs. For the woofer, the Eton 8-800, which I also have and have used, it's simiar situation- it has a nearfield notch and impedance glitch slightly lower than the RS225 (1400 Hz vs 1500 Hz), and it's no where near as low in distortion in the bottom end or midrange (the Eton has a good cone but a rather average motor desgin). So, as you might imagine, the idea was to do something similar to the Eclipse, but with lower distortion, more extended low frequency reach (considering the limitations of a single driver, the RS225 has 2X the Xmax and is in a carefully tuned system which "technically" is a TQWT), and higher SPL capability. In general, I think the design has succeeded well in that regard. Note that I did do the internal wiring with Cardas crosslink (the original Eclipse and Ascent use Cardas hookup wire, 11.5 gauge on the woofer, 15 AWG on the tweeter IIRC,). Coils were Solen Heptalitz and caps were Solen. I recommend if you have a little extra money to spend that you make the series caps in the tweeter network half of each value from a good film and foil, like AudioCAP Theta. With good electronics and cables, this pays off.

Yeah, even four inches of MDF is very dead- the multi-layer HDF assembly I used (a little more extreme than Avalon) is quite inerts, and easier to work with in the facets- there's less tendency for it to flake, as sometimes happens with MDF.

Sometimes I call this kind of project "eXtreme Speaker Building".

~Jon

[kvardas]

I plan on building the M8tas using the RS28A/RS225 drivers thanks to Jon's graciousness in providing me the drawings/schematics.

I emailed an individual who has built the M8tas (RS225 and millenium tweeter) to ask him his thoughts on the results, and his response was "they're really quite unbelievable."

That was good enough for me. Hopefully this summer, once my house addition project is done, I'll be busy sawing, gluing, admiring, and listening...

[JonMarsh]

Needless to say, anyone that undertakes this, you're welcome to follow up with questions if you run into any unexpected issues. And we'd love to see pictures of finished versions.

Another idea Charles Hansen threw my way was that if you didn't have the time or felt comfortable doing the finish in wood, they work pretty nice using spray on truck bed liner once you've sanded them down. Avalon even offered them with a similar finish. Now they only offer them with wood finishes- originally that was a way to get them at a somewhat lower price.

[ColoradoTom]

Thanks Guys,

I decided to move forward - I figure the worst that can happen is I don't like them when I'm finished and I give them to my daughter(s).

Ripped MDF and HDF into 60 2' x 4' panels last night. Spring break is next week and I should have 3 - 4 days of project time available. Ordering from Parts Express, Madisound and North Creek (I sure hope their coils are worth the money!). Since Jon did such a wonderful job documenting his process of building his speakers I won't be redundent and document mine.

Jon - I am thinking about a couple of slight midifications in the construction of the cabinet. I'm planning on gluing up the side and back panels and the routing dados after the glue up for the internal braces. It looks from the pictures that you built the backs and sides at 1" and then glued the sides together and then added 1/4" pieces afterwards that created slots for the braces. Is it OK for me to do it my way or am I missing something (wouldn't be the first time). I'm also considering a tongue and rabbet joint fortified with biscuits to join the back panel to the two sides - I think I remember seeing this (without biscuits) in a picture of the Avalon factory. One last thing on construction, has anyone use a constrained layer using ~ 1/4" of roofing felt inside the side and back panels?? Is this even worth considering??

I think I've got a plan for a crosscut sled that will allow me to cut the 10 degree cut for the sides as well as the 10 and 9 degree cuts for the front bevels. If it works I will post it, as it should allow accurate construction with a common 10" table saw - if it doesn't work just forget I ever mentioned it!!

I found a local shop that has rosewood, birdseye maple, and walnut veneer in stock. I'm partial to rosewood because I've got a collection of guitars (Martin and Santa Cruz) that are rosewood in my audio room - I did a test run on some rosewood veneer and it's absolutly beautiful, but I'm worried about it being a little too dark for such a massive object. I think I remember you talking about using rosewood - did it turn out OK?

Sorry to be so verbose - guess the thought of getting started has me a little excited!!

Tom

[ThomasW]

Tom,

Where in Colorado are you located?

I'm in Denver...

One last thing on construction, has anyone use a constrained layer using ~ 1/4" of roofing felt inside the side and back panels?? Is this even worth considering??

CLD works, and works even better with something like the bituminus damping sheets from PE, p/n 268-020.

I have a link to some studies I'll see if I can find it.

[ColoradoTom]

ThomasW,

I'm in Castle Rock - about two miles east of the Outlet Stores if you know the area.

om

[ThomasW]

Well we're 15min apart, I'm just off the I-25 and Hampden exit. We should touch base and I can expedite your contact with Jon. Also you might enjoy hearing my systems....

Mains and IB subwoofer There's a smaller IB in the family room along with a pair of the Arvo prototypes..

[ColoradoTom]

Tom,

Where in Colorado are you located?

I'm in Denver...

CLD works, and works even better with something like the bituminus damping sheets from PE, p/n 268-020.

I have a link to some studies I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks Thomas - I assume the bituminus sheets are still embedded inside the panel and not just pressed against the inside.


Off Topic - OK is it just me or does eveyone else read "Evil Twins" posts and mentally hear a Darth Vader voice reading along with them??

[ThomasW]

I assume the bituminus sheets are still embedded inside the panel and not just pressed against the inside.

It's much easier to place on the inside walls. It damps more vibration if it's between the walls, but then it's problematic to attach the walls together with the material between them.

Jon's normal voice sounds like Vadar...... :rofl:

[ColoradoTom]

Well we're 15min apart, I'm just off the I-25 and Hampden exit. We should touch base and I can expedite your contact with Jon. Also you might enjoy hearing my systems....

Mains and IB subwoofer There's a smaller IB in the family room along with a pair of the Arvo prototypes..

Thanks for the offer and I would like that....

Small world - I periodically stop by the "New York Deli News" just down the street to get Rubens (heart attack on a plate!). Lived for two years at Hampden & Yale.

Jumped over to see your site - I need to bring by wife over so that she can see that I'm really not that abnormal - the IB is just plain scarry and your "coolness factor" jumped way up when I saw the LaserDisc!!

[ThomasW]

One block before you turn into the Deli is the intersection of Hampden and Oneida Way. I live 1/2 mile south of Hampen on Oneida way.

Sure bring the Mrs', anything you do will seem tame in comparison to what she sees here....

BTW there's a CRT Hi-Def front projection system in the room with tall planars....

[ColoradoTom]

[QUOTE=ThomasW]One block before you turn into the Deli is the intersection of Hampden and Oneida Way. I live 1/2 mile south of Hampen on Oneida way.

Sure bring the Mrs', anything you do will seem tame in comparison to what she sees here....


Not so sure about that...... you've got mail!!!

[JonMarsh]

Thanks Guys,

I decided to move forward - I figure the worst that can happen is I don't like them when I'm finished and I give them to my daughter(s).

Ripped MDF and HDF into 60 2' x 4' panels last night. Spring break is next week and I should have 3 - 4 days of project time available. Ordering from Parts Express, Madisound and North Creek (I sure hope their coils are worth the money!). Since Jon did such a wonderful job documenting his process of building his speakers I won't be redundent and document mine.

Jon - I am thinking about a couple of slight midifications in the construction of the cabinet. I'm planning on gluing up the side and back panels and the routing dados after the glue up for the internal braces. It looks from the pictures that you built the backs and sides at 1" and then glued the sides together and then added 1/4" pieces afterwards that created slots for the braces. Is it OK for me to do it my way or am I missing something (wouldn't be the first time). I'm also considering a tongue and rabbet joint fortified with biscuits to join the back panel to the two sides - I think I remember seeing this (without biscuits) in a picture of the Avalon factory. One last thing on construction, has anyone use a constrained layer using ~ 1/4" of roofing felt inside the side and back panels?? Is this even worth considering??

I think I've got a plan for a crosscut sled that will allow me to cut the 10 degree cut for the sides as well as the 10 and 9 degree cuts for the front bevels. If it works I will post it, as it should allow accurate construction with a common 10" table saw - if it doesn't work just forget I ever mentioned it!!

I found a local shop that has rosewood, birdseye maple, and walnut veneer in stock. I'm partial to rosewood because I've got a collection of guitars (Martin and Santa Cruz) that are rosewood in my audio room - I did a test run on some rosewood veneer and it's absolutly beautiful, but I'm worried about it being a little too dark for such a massive object. I think I remember you talking about using rosewood - did it turn out OK?

Sorry to be so verbose - guess the thought of getting started has me a little excited!!

Tom

The way I did it (if I recall correctly at this point) was to build up the sides to 1", cut the parts that formed the slots for the braces, glue and clamp those up, then assemble the sides, back, top, and bottom at the same time.

Now, I encourage DIY, that is, there should be some Y, and that even means experimentation. I've done constrained layer damping in the 70's, but gotten away from it- don't like 1-3/4" thick walls, which was what I always wound up with. (3/4" material for each "rigid" layer and a damping layer about 1/4". Some tests show it doesn't really buy you much. With the bracing pattern and 1" walls made with high density Ply and 1/4" HDF, the walls and back are plenty stiff. The front is the main launch platform, of course, and that's why it's so massive.

Rabetting is a great idea, and if I thought I'd make more than one pair of these, I'd have worked longer in the design phase and put in some touches like that.

BTW, I assemble these things with Epoxy. My own tests and some independently published tests show that the cabinet is deader and stronger than with using alphiatic resin glue (Titebond, for example). I do use Titebond for the veneering.

Rosewood is quite dark, depending on the specific specie- for most folks, a lighter wood like curly maple may work better.

Yes, the Northcreek coils are expensive, but the ARE GOOD! They keep the DCR down and have absolutely no coloration or saturation at any playback level- unlike any type of cored inductor.

My little Ryobi has deeper than typical crosscut capbility for a 10" saw, because of the wide, small diameter belt drive. Hint: unless your saw swings both directions, you'll have to cut one set of bevels with the baffle face down, the other with it one it's side edge.

I have a sliding miter table on the Ryobi; if you figure out something cool, by all means share, as others may benefit.

Frankly, I'm surprised at how many folks have been interested and brave enough to try building these.

Crossover is external, like the original Avalons (Eclipse and Ascent), and a few of the really big ones still.

Have fun, and keep us posted of your progress!

~Jon

[ColoradoTom]

Jon:

Thanks for the info. I'm really glad I stumbled upon this group - seems like a great group of people with a wealth of knowledge. ThomasW and I are in a good hearted offline comparison of wretched audio excess - currently the ball is his court!

Sounds like the constrained layer isn't really worth the additional effort so I will probably save that experiment for a future project - possibly the subwoofer project I currently have on hold.

Made a small test veneer of rosewood..........

Leaning towards it even though it may be dark.

Sounds like you've already done some serious thinking on jig creation for the bevels - I'll see what I come up with and I'll share it with the group if successful. I'm also working up some designs for the external crossovers.

I'm really not surprised about the interest in the design. This is a difficult project with the potential of both wonderful sound as well as a showcase for woodworking talent combined into one. If successful, one can have a DIY project that can appeal to both audio buffs as well as non-audio buffs. If the sound doesn't hook them then the craftmanship should at least get and Ohhhhh and Awwwwww!

Thanks again,

Tom

[JonMarsh]

This is a pic of the rosewood I bought, but the finished result is darker.



If you can get something looking like what you posted, I think it will look very nice. What source is the original veneer? (type, age, etc).

[ColoradoTom]

The sample I posted is some santos rosewood which I actually don't think is a rosewood but is in the same family. I believe people also sometimes call it pau ferro . It's often used as a substitute for Brazilian rosewood ever since it's classification as endangered. Your piece looks like some actual rosewood and if so is probably NOS (new old stock). If I'm correct it was probably close to the single most expensive part of your speakers.

The photo (which looks very close to the real thing out in my garage) is an actual piece I veneered last night and then put on two coats of shellac on it this morning to test what it would look like. That particular piece is about a foot wide and a foot and a half long. The grain pattern and coloring in the larger pieces I have is more variable than shown - ranging from yellowish brown to dark almost black brown. Even with the variable grain the wood really finishes nice and just draws your eyes towards it. I have acces to about 120 square feet of veneer which is probably more than enough to make a couple of pairs of speakers with matching crossover boxes.

The funny thing with a beautiful wood like the rosewood family is that everyone that sees it has to reach out and touch it. I've had four visitors to my house this morning and everyone picked it up and just stared at it and feel the texture.

I also have acces to the same square footage of cocobolo and Hawaiian koa veneer that I will be going out to look at next week.

Tom

[JonMarsh]

You've got a sharp eye- mine is NOS, from the late 60's, I bought out what that dealer had in this particular batch. And it did cost more than all the rest of the speaker parts put together.

I'm familiar with Pau Ferro- I've got quite a bit laying up at home, for my upcoming dipole projects. Bought it from Rockler a year ago. I should go back to their Pleasant Hill store and see if they have any more- they are where I get my Baltic Birch ply, too.

Cocobolo and Hawaiian Koa are pretty nice, too- just comes down to your personal preference. How do you like Shellac as a finishing material- or is that just what you had handy to check the appearance?

It's cool that you're out in Denver not very far from ThomasW- I try to get out there a couple of times a year, and maybe I could have a chance to see yours sometime.

~Jon

[noah katz]

"3/4" material for each "rigid" layer and a damping layer about 1/4". Some tests show it doesn't really buy you much."

I think 1/4" is way too thick. The low modulus of that layer essentially decouples the two outer layers, greatly reducing the combined stiffness; in the limit you'd get 2X the stiffness from two decoupled panels instead of 8X from completely coupled panels.

Commercial CSD materials also use a thin layer of the viscoelastic material.

[Curly Woods]

H

The sample I posted is some santos rosewood which I actually don't think is a rosewood but is in the same family. I believe people also sometimes call it pau ferro . It's often used as a substitute for Brazilian rosewood ever since it's classification as endangered.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Pau Ferro is better known as Morado or Bolivian Rosewood in the exotic lumber business. It is sometimes referred to as Santos Rosewood, especially in the veneer markets

Santos Rosewood, of the species Machaerium scleroxylon, that was introduced as a substitute for Rio(Brazilian) Rosewood. While not a true rosewood of the genus Dalbergia, the wood offers users the look of the endangered species, although not necessarily all of its properties.

Santos Rosewood is now considered a valuable wood on its own merits and is most often used for architectural woodworking and high-end furniture.

[jdybnis]

"3/4" material for each "rigid" layer and a damping layer about 1/4". Some tests show it doesn't really buy you much."

I think 1/4" is way too thick. The low modulus of that layer essentially decouples the two outer layers, greatly reducing the combined stiffness; in the limit you'd get 2X the stiffness from two decoupled panels instead of 8X from completely coupled panels.

Commercial CSD materials also use a thin layer of the viscoelastic material.

I agree here. (3/4" + 1/4" + 3/4") is effective at damping but I don't think it is constrained layer damping, at least not how the phrase is used commercially. The stuff I've seen for sale don't tend to use equal thickness rigid layers either. The ratio is closer to (3/4" + 1mm + 1/4").

[ColoradoTom]

How do you like Shellac as a finishing material- or is that just what you had handy to check the appearance?

It's cool that you're out in Denver not very far from ThomasW- I try to get out there a couple of times a year, and maybe I could have a chance to see yours sometime.


Jon -

I have used shellac as a wash coat, a finish and as a check to determine how a wood will look when I used my preferred finishing technique involving General Finishes Seal-A-Cell (modified linseed oil, oil modified urethane, and alkyd resin, and dryers) followed by a top coat of Arm-R-Seal (oil modified urethane with dryers). This process is used by David Marks and is described here: http://www.djmarks.com/stories/faq/W...hane_46687.asp
It is a finishing technique that is simple and very consistent.

Now shellac is a great finish as well and has some great features like being able to apply a couple of coats on small pieces of material in a very short period of time. If you use a clear de-waxed 1 lb cut (1 lb of shellac flakes to 1 gallon of alcohol) and apply two coats to a sample board you will get a pretty good idea of what the finish described above will look like when done. A finishing technique called French Polish uses shellac and if you get good at it the results can be fantastic.

Trivia: Shellac is a very low toxic substance and is used in food and medicine all the time (I believe it is used as the coating for Reeses Pieces and at one time was the coating on M&M's). Since shellac flakes are mixed with alcohol you could theoritically mix the flakes with tequila, apply the finish, and then mix lime juice with what ever is left over and completly freak out anyone that is watching you. Jon - I could see you doing this at a local DIY demonstration in a Dr. Brown outfit with little Einstein watching in amazement.

I don't use it as a final finish as often as I should because the General Finishes products are so easy to use and since shellac is alcohol based it dries very quickly and you really need to have good technique to finish large areas. One thing I do use it for all the time is as a "wash coat" on wood to prevent blotching when staining. Applying a 1 lb cut to wood prior to staining will prevent blotching and maintain the natural characteristics of the wood. Pine is a good example of a wood that typically, when stained, looks really bad - but add a wash coat of shellac followed by stain and you can have something spectacular.


ThomasW and I have emailed a couple of times over the last day or two and I'm hoping we'll get together soon! I'm sure it would be fun for all of us to get together next time you're out.

Tom

[JonMarsh]

Very good! :T You know your wood finishing, and have researched this pretty well. I'm familiar with the shellac techniques, too, but I do prefer the oil modified uerthane finishes on hardwood.

Please PM me becuase I have another hint I'd like to discsuss offline.

Regards,

Jon

[ColoradoTom]

Jon - you've got mail!!

[heebee-jeebee]

I don't use it as a final finish as often as I should because the General Finishes products are so easy to use and since shellac is alcohol based it dries very quickly and you really need to have good technique to finish large areas. One thing I do use it for all the time is as a "wash coat" on wood to prevent blotching when staining. Applying a 1 lb cut to wood prior to staining will prevent blotching and maintain the natural characteristics of the wood. Pine is a good example of a wood that typically, when stained, looks really bad - but add a wash coat of shellac followed by stain and you can have something spectacular.
Tom

damn...i wish i had known this about 4 weeks ago, i just made some boxes out of pine for my B3s , and i had a problem with it blotching in a few places. overall i like the look of them though.

[Evil Twin]

Jon - you've got mail!!

You have a PM.

[Brian Bunge]

Damn, wood finishing and drinking tequila all at once?! Don't tell Hank Frankenberg. The excitement of it all my just be too much for the old guy!

I might have to pick of those General Finishes products. I've seen them at Woodcraft before but have never tried them. I use a wipe on poly product made by Old Dad's/Jessup that's sold through the Wood You unfinished furniture stores. It works well on small projects but can get a bit streaky on large surfaces, like the 51" x 20" side panels of my big RS 3-way towers. Especially when humidity is high. All in all though, it's MUCH better than the crap Minwax makes.

[ColoradoTom]

You have a PM.

Didn't get it ..... damn servers! Try tom - at -integritynetwork.com. or ini - at - ix.netcom.com. Either of those should work.

[ColoradoTom]

damn...i wish i had known this about 4 weeks ago, i just made some boxes out of pine for my B3s , and i had a problem with it blotching in a few places. overall i like the look of them though.

Not to rub salt in the wound here Chris... but you can add dyes to the shellac to "stain" the pine, but, unlike the stain you're probably using, you will keep the "shimmer" (for lack of a better word) in the grain of the wood and make the pine actually have a 3-D quality to it. I'd show you some pictures but it is REALLY hard to capture on film because you have to move your head to see it and it's not like you can view the computer screen from different angles to get it. If you get good at the technique you can make inexpensive woods mimic others. I have some pine moulding that I was able to make look like cherry by playing around with dyes in the shellac. Which just prooves what a boring life I have sitting in my garage trying to be Mr. Wood alchemist!!!!

[TacoD]

Didn't get it ..... damn servers! Try tom - at -integritynetwork.com. or ini - at - ix.netcom.com. Either of those should work.

I think Jon was refering to the messages you can send through this board. If you're logged in, you can see "Private Messages" in the right top of the screen.

[ColoradoTom]

I think Jon was refering to the messages you can send through this board. If you're logged in, you can see "Private Messages" in the right top of the screen.

Thanks......

PM in another forum I visit refers to "Private Mail" sent to a users email address. I just figured it out this morning that on this group it is "Private Message"!!

[ColoradoTom]

The Journey Begins

Nice day in Colorado today.... so I decided to start the M8ta's. I did a prototype of a sled to cut the facets on a 10" table saw and the results seemd to work well. Will post design when I build the actual working sled.

Since Jon did such a good job documenting his process I'll only add modifications or aids like the bevel sled.

Tom

[ThomasW]

What just working on the sled??

I thought the speakers would be finished by now .....(he says as he waits for the second visit from the roto-rooter guy and eyeing the incomplete sled in his own basement ...:wink: )

[ColoradoTom]

What just working on the sled??

I thought the speakers would be finished by now .....(he says as he waits for the second visit from the roto-rooter guy and eyeing the incomplete sled in his own basement ...:wink: )

I'm taking a coffee break - since it's 2:15 now and I started at 9:00AM this morning. I should have the speakers done in another....let's see........ 415 hours!!!! I've been taking pictures to document the process so that if these come out as good as I hope I'll have proof I actually built them myself!!

Is the Roto-Rooter guy using the snake or has he tried that inflating high pressure hose thingy!! On second thought I don't want to know... this is bringing up bad memories.

Back to work..............

Tom

[JonMarsh]

We want pictures, of course- if you do work as professionally as you sound like, we'll want to use YOUR pictures instead of mine for documenting how to do this project! I didn't really expect too many takers.

BTW, as regards crossover, the CE filter topology would be a bit tricky to implement passive- some active versions have been done, but it's easier to do with a digital approach- which isn't inexpensive, at the moment, as the DCX2496 seems to be out pf production at the moment, due to a chip availability issue.

[ColoradoTom]

We want pictures, of course- if you do work as professionally as you sound like, we'll want to use YOUR pictures instead of mine for documenting how to do this project! I didn't really expect too many takers.

BTW, as regards crossover, the CE filter topology would be a bit tricky to implement passive- some active versions have been done, but it's easier to do with a digital approach- which isn't inexpensive, at the moment, as the DCX2496 seems to be out pf production at the moment, due to a chip availability issue.

OK.....

Here's some pictures.

The first one shows a full size layout on MDF. I always do this as it helps visualize the project, particularly when there are going to be angled cuts/dado's. Taking the time to do this will often catch mistakes later in the project. I'll refer to it prior to making almost every cut.

Second is the typical boring "I'm cutting some MDF panels". You can see my table saw/bench dog router table rig.... I'm all about safety 'cause I play the guitar and want to keep most of my fingers. Oh, there is a roller stand behind the table saw holding up the panel - I've tried the "Star Wars" levitate the work piece with the power of the "Force" but I apparently skipped out of Jedi class a little too early.

The last one is the test of the front panel with top facets. This was used for testing the prototype sled and will be used to practice veneering technique later on. If you look closely in the background are some prototype wooden quadratic diffusors.

[ThomasW]

That looks good.... :T

When you're all practiced up you can build a pair at my place. I'd prefer a pair of Isis clones based on what I heard at the 2005 RMAF. And we wouldn't want to strain anyone's back moving them from house to house...:wink:

To refresh your memory here's what they look like...... :B

Image not available

[ColoradoTom]

That looks good.... :T

When you're all practiced up you can build a pair at my place. I'd prefer a pair of Isis clones based on what I heard at the 2005 RMAF. And we wouldn't want to strain anyone's back moving them from house to house...:wink:

To refresh your memory here's what they look like...... :B

Image not available

Does anyone else think that looks vaguely similar to a couple of nuns from the Castle Anthrax giving a lecture on spankings!!

[JonMarsh]

There definitely is a theological bent to the whole scene, worshippers and all....

[CraigJ]

And at $58,000 per pair, I think the guy on the right is rechecking his Lottery ticket.... :jawdrop:

Craig

[JonMarsh]

Well, you know, Avalon does have to include a little markup on their C90/T6, dual custom Eton neodymium woofers, and D30 diamond tweeters!

~Jon